Many people avoid anyone who says they are Christian because they have experienced Christians as unloving and judgmental.Often people use their Christianity to break up a family and express hate rather than love for each other.Sometimes as they express this hate and unfair judgment they will say, on parting “I will pray for you”.They are sure that God will hear a prayer only filled with judgments, not of love.I don’t think these people are part of God’s family and I think their choice of being unloving and judgmental people cancels their chance at salvation.Am I wrong?
Can we be saved although currently choosing to treat others with meanness?
- Thread starter RedTent
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M
This is a tough one. We start off on the wrong footing and make many mistakes before we find our way. God has to work through us to make us better. We have to learn to be more Christ-like. Doesn't salvation begin when we admit to our own sin and ask Jesus into our lives.
I know I'm not perfect - I never stop trying.
I know I'm not perfect - I never stop trying.
K
The bible says that through personal trials and tribulations that we all go through will make some of us faulter at times, and even cause some to completely fall away.
The thing is though we can always come back to our Lord Jesus Christ in repentance, and ask for forgiveness of what we have done. He being just will forgive us, and welcome us back into the fold.
So we can not judge others as to rather or not they will get the gift of eternal life or not because even though we may see them lost now and headed for destruction. They may eventually turn to the Lord later in life.
We are called to be ready, and not wait because we do not know when that ending may come.
The thing is though we can always come back to our Lord Jesus Christ in repentance, and ask for forgiveness of what we have done. He being just will forgive us, and welcome us back into the fold.
So we can not judge others as to rather or not they will get the gift of eternal life or not because even though we may see them lost now and headed for destruction. They may eventually turn to the Lord later in life.
We are called to be ready, and not wait because we do not know when that ending may come.
That's true, many over zealous Christians can come-off like used car salesman. Being over-aggressive and pushy is a turn-off. Telling someone, "I'll pray for you" is like telling them that they're screwed up. When the Good Samaritan saw a person in need, he didn't just say "I'll pray for you". Sometimes Christians should offer assistance and put their judgements on a shelf. Showing people your faith through kindness speaks volumes over verbal condemnation. jmo
You know Red Tent, if it had not been for love , non judging,condemning, or patience and a preacher after God's own heart.
I would not have known God . People that are lost need to really see Christ and need someone that has their back
in prayer . Sincerity in others walk. Those days should be long past. If we are the salt, we should be that salt. God is no respecter of persons. They need mentoring,love, the word, prayer and patience until they are at a place in him they can stand.
I would not have known God . People that are lost need to really see Christ and need someone that has their back
in prayer . Sincerity in others walk. Those days should be long past. If we are the salt, we should be that salt. God is no respecter of persons. They need mentoring,love, the word, prayer and patience until they are at a place in him they can stand.
In the past I have quite often found Christians to be judgemental and hard hearted, especially when it comes to another Christian who has fallen, they tear these persons to shreds without having any compassion or love for them! These Christians are saved, but are loveless!
I think of the Corinthian Church which had so many loveless Christians who were acting in such an unchristian manner and it was this type of behaviour that caused Chloe's household to report (1Cor 1v11) such to Paul with the result that he penned (under the inspirition of the Holy Spirit) 1 & 2 Corinthians to correct their carnal immature spiritual attitudes.
Many of the Corinthian Church were carnal, but were saved! 1Cor 3v1-8.
Yahweh Shalom
I think of the Corinthian Church which had so many loveless Christians who were acting in such an unchristian manner and it was this type of behaviour that caused Chloe's household to report (1Cor 1v11) such to Paul with the result that he penned (under the inspirition of the Holy Spirit) 1 & 2 Corinthians to correct their carnal immature spiritual attitudes.
Many of the Corinthian Church were carnal, but were saved! 1Cor 3v1-8.
Yahweh Shalom
P
does being unloving or judgemental cancel a chance of salvation??
idk...does being lazy at work mean one cannot receive salvation?
does losing my temper with my children?
or being an uncaring wife today?
or a thief, even of something small?
does behaving in those ways mean one is not saved?
not for me to evaluate someone else in terms of their relationship to God.
isn't the Gospel Good News for sinners?
idk...does being lazy at work mean one cannot receive salvation?
does losing my temper with my children?
or being an uncaring wife today?
or a thief, even of something small?
does behaving in those ways mean one is not saved?
not for me to evaluate someone else in terms of their relationship to God.
isn't the Gospel Good News for sinners?
Oh Roger - Christians are not perfect people - they are only sinners saved by Grace - and dependent on the Holy Spirit's work in helping them to conform to the image of Christ. This seems to take years as we experience the consequences of our own choices versus being guided by the insights and wisdom of the scriptures. It is an ongoing struggle between our flesh and walking by the Spirit. We learn slowly - some quicker than others - but we are are Christians ONLY because we have accepted the work done on the cross to deal with our sinful nature - and ONLY because we accept the gift of righteousness that Christ gives us freely. He is our righteousness. We are Christians because we enjoy a relationship with Christ - able to talk to him freely and honestly. We are Christians because we are not focused on ourselves any longer - but struggling to stay focused on what He is speaking to us daily as we read His Word.
How can we ever identify the walk of a Christian? We are all walking differently - some still needing healing - some still needing teaching - some more confidently - some more lovingly. How we are walking or talking does not identify us as Christians. There are so many stages to Christian growth. Some even trip - but the scriptures tell us that the Lord holds them by the hand. Some bear much fruit - and only tells you that they are abiding more in Jesus.
How can we ever identify the walk of a Christian? We are all walking differently - some still needing healing - some still needing teaching - some more confidently - some more lovingly. How we are walking or talking does not identify us as Christians. There are so many stages to Christian growth. Some even trip - but the scriptures tell us that the Lord holds them by the hand. Some bear much fruit - and only tells you that they are abiding more in Jesus.
This is all so very true, and at the same time, by living by only this and forgetting to "be perfect as the Lord is perfect" as part of the plan for us, it can become something that isn't true---even the truth does away with other truths if something is ignored.
If these truths become so much a part of us that we allow a sin to become our identity saying it is OK for we always have forgiveness, that sin we become enslaved to becomes our master instead of the Lord. Many know the truths this post tells of, yet the truth that we can't be perfect becomes an excuse not to even aim at the Lord's walk. They say the truth that they can never make perfection and must have Christ means not to try. Or they say that the truth that we are dependent on forgiveness for salvation, not our perfection, means the truth of the guides to perfection are cancelled.
If these truths become so much a part of us that we allow a sin to become our identity saying it is OK for we always have forgiveness, that sin we become enslaved to becomes our master instead of the Lord. Many know the truths this post tells of, yet the truth that we can't be perfect becomes an excuse not to even aim at the Lord's walk. They say the truth that they can never make perfection and must have Christ means not to try. Or they say that the truth that we are dependent on forgiveness for salvation, not our perfection, means the truth of the guides to perfection are cancelled.
I'm smiling because I know what you are saying. The Holy Spirit knows who we are. The Holy Spirit speaks when we encounter those of like precious faith that we are of the same spirit.
It is not the true born again blood bought believers that cause consternation but those tares sown in among them. We abide them knowing the God will separate them from the wheat.
A babe in Christ will receive the word. A fallen saint will receive the word These feel the Holy Spirit's conviction and know the need to repent and grow or be restored to fellowship with Christ. Tares argue that they know more about God and His word than anyone else and that their interpretations are correct. If there is no love and no compassion for the less fortunate then it is unlikely that they are what they profess to be.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It is not the true born again blood bought believers that cause consternation but those tares sown in among them. We abide them knowing the God will separate them from the wheat.
A babe in Christ will receive the word. A fallen saint will receive the word These feel the Holy Spirit's conviction and know the need to repent and grow or be restored to fellowship with Christ. Tares argue that they know more about God and His word than anyone else and that their interpretations are correct. If there is no love and no compassion for the less fortunate then it is unlikely that they are what they profess to be.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
That last statement you made is why I wanted feedback from CC about this---I felt it was OK to make the judgment of others that if they showed no love and compassion it was unlikely they knew Christ as their Savior. It seems a harsh judgment of what is sin in people and what is not, but I agree with you.
With the way the culture in our world has developed, everything seems against family members showing love, support, and compassion for each other. It is where it is especially showing up. Often our children are growing up with parents either not building them up as worthwhile giving Christians, or not caring enough for them as good people they simply indulge them instead of helping them, for instance. The family has become so weak that over half our children are not raised by both their original parents.
With the way the culture in our world has developed, everything seems against family members showing love, support, and compassion for each other. It is where it is especially showing up. Often our children are growing up with parents either not building them up as worthwhile giving Christians, or not caring enough for them as good people they simply indulge them instead of helping them, for instance. The family has become so weak that over half our children are not raised by both their original parents.
B
[h=1]Why are all Christians hypocrites? Are all Christians hypocrites?[/h]
Question: "Why are all Christians hypocrites? Are all Christians hypocrites?"
Answer: Perhaps no accusation is more provocative than that of “hypocrite.” Unfortunately, some feel justified in their view that all Christians are hypocrites. The term “hypocrite” enjoys a rich heritage in the English language. The term comes to us via the Latin hypocrisies meaning “play-acting, pretense.” Further back, the word occurs in both classical and New Testament Greek and has the very same idea—to play a part, pretend.
This is the way the Lord Jesus employed the term. For example, when Christ taught the significance of prayer, fasting, and alms-giving for kingdom people, He discouraged us from following the examples of those who are hypocrites (Matthew 6:2, 5, 16). By making long public prayers, employing extreme measures to ensure others noticed their fasts, and parading their gifts to the Temple and the poor, they revealed only an outward attachment to the Lord. While the Pharisees performed well their dramatic role as public examples of religious virtue, they failed miserably in the inner world of the heart where true virtue resides (Matthew 23:13-33; Mark 7:20-23).
Jesus never called His disciples hypocrites. That name was given only to misguided religious zealots. Rather, He called His own “followers,” “babes,” “sheep,” and His “church.” In addition, there is a warning in the New Testament about the sin of hypocrisy (1 Peter 2:1), which Peter calls “insincerity.” Also, two blatant examples of hypocrisy are recorded in the church. In Acts 5:1-10, two disciples are exposed for pretending to be more generous than they were. The consequence was severe. And, of all people, Peter is charged with leading a group of hypocrites in their treatment of Gentile believers (Galatians 2:13).
From the New Testament teaching, then, we may draw at least two conclusions. First, hypocrites do exist among professing Christians. They were present in the beginning, and, according to Jesus’ parable of the tares and wheat, they will certainly exist until the end of the age (Matthew 13:18-30). In addition, if even an apostle may be guilty of hypocrisy, there is no reason to believe “ordinary” Christians will be free from it. We must always be on our guard that we do not fall into the very same temptations (1 Corinthians 10:12).
Of course, not everyone who claims to be a Christian is truly a Christian. Perhaps all or most of the famous hypocrites among Christians were in fact pretenders and deceivers. To this day, prominent Christian leaders have fallen into terrible sins. Financial and sexual scandals sometimes seem to plague the Christian community. However, instead of taking the actions of a few and using them to denigrate the whole community of Christians, we need to ask whether all those who claim to be Christians really are. Numerous biblical passages confirm that those who truly belong to Christ will exhibit the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). Jesus’ parable of the seed and the soils in Matthew 13 makes it clear that not all professions of faith in Him are genuine. Sadly, many who profess to belong to Him will be stunned one day to hear Him say to them, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” (Matthew 7:23).
Second, while it should not surprise us that people who pretend to be more holy than they are claim to be Christians, we cannot conclude that the church is made up almost entirely of hypocrites. One surely may concede that all of us who name the name of Jesus Christ remain sinners even after our sin is forgiven. That is, even though we are saved from sins’ eternal penalty (Romans 5:1; 6:23), we are yet to be saved and delivered from the presence of sin in our lives (1 John 1:8-9), including the sin of hypocrisy. Through our living faith in the Lord Jesus, we continually overcome sin’s power until we are finally delivered (1 John 5:4-5).
All Christians fail to perfectly live up to the standard the Bible teaches. No Christian has ever been perfectly Christ-like. However, there are many Christians who are genuinely seeking to live the Christian life and are relying more and more on the Holy Spirit to convict, change, and empower them. There have been multitudes of Christians who have lived their lives free from scandal. No Christian is perfect, but making a mistake and failing to reach perfection in this life is not the same thing as being a hypocrite.
Recommended Resources: Living Above the Level of Mediocrity by Charles Swindoll andLogos Bible Software.
Answer: Perhaps no accusation is more provocative than that of “hypocrite.” Unfortunately, some feel justified in their view that all Christians are hypocrites. The term “hypocrite” enjoys a rich heritage in the English language. The term comes to us via the Latin hypocrisies meaning “play-acting, pretense.” Further back, the word occurs in both classical and New Testament Greek and has the very same idea—to play a part, pretend.
This is the way the Lord Jesus employed the term. For example, when Christ taught the significance of prayer, fasting, and alms-giving for kingdom people, He discouraged us from following the examples of those who are hypocrites (Matthew 6:2, 5, 16). By making long public prayers, employing extreme measures to ensure others noticed their fasts, and parading their gifts to the Temple and the poor, they revealed only an outward attachment to the Lord. While the Pharisees performed well their dramatic role as public examples of religious virtue, they failed miserably in the inner world of the heart where true virtue resides (Matthew 23:13-33; Mark 7:20-23).
Jesus never called His disciples hypocrites. That name was given only to misguided religious zealots. Rather, He called His own “followers,” “babes,” “sheep,” and His “church.” In addition, there is a warning in the New Testament about the sin of hypocrisy (1 Peter 2:1), which Peter calls “insincerity.” Also, two blatant examples of hypocrisy are recorded in the church. In Acts 5:1-10, two disciples are exposed for pretending to be more generous than they were. The consequence was severe. And, of all people, Peter is charged with leading a group of hypocrites in their treatment of Gentile believers (Galatians 2:13).
From the New Testament teaching, then, we may draw at least two conclusions. First, hypocrites do exist among professing Christians. They were present in the beginning, and, according to Jesus’ parable of the tares and wheat, they will certainly exist until the end of the age (Matthew 13:18-30). In addition, if even an apostle may be guilty of hypocrisy, there is no reason to believe “ordinary” Christians will be free from it. We must always be on our guard that we do not fall into the very same temptations (1 Corinthians 10:12).
Of course, not everyone who claims to be a Christian is truly a Christian. Perhaps all or most of the famous hypocrites among Christians were in fact pretenders and deceivers. To this day, prominent Christian leaders have fallen into terrible sins. Financial and sexual scandals sometimes seem to plague the Christian community. However, instead of taking the actions of a few and using them to denigrate the whole community of Christians, we need to ask whether all those who claim to be Christians really are. Numerous biblical passages confirm that those who truly belong to Christ will exhibit the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). Jesus’ parable of the seed and the soils in Matthew 13 makes it clear that not all professions of faith in Him are genuine. Sadly, many who profess to belong to Him will be stunned one day to hear Him say to them, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” (Matthew 7:23).
Second, while it should not surprise us that people who pretend to be more holy than they are claim to be Christians, we cannot conclude that the church is made up almost entirely of hypocrites. One surely may concede that all of us who name the name of Jesus Christ remain sinners even after our sin is forgiven. That is, even though we are saved from sins’ eternal penalty (Romans 5:1; 6:23), we are yet to be saved and delivered from the presence of sin in our lives (1 John 1:8-9), including the sin of hypocrisy. Through our living faith in the Lord Jesus, we continually overcome sin’s power until we are finally delivered (1 John 5:4-5).
All Christians fail to perfectly live up to the standard the Bible teaches. No Christian has ever been perfectly Christ-like. However, there are many Christians who are genuinely seeking to live the Christian life and are relying more and more on the Holy Spirit to convict, change, and empower them. There have been multitudes of Christians who have lived their lives free from scandal. No Christian is perfect, but making a mistake and failing to reach perfection in this life is not the same thing as being a hypocrite.
Recommended Resources: Living Above the Level of Mediocrity by Charles Swindoll andLogos Bible Software.
Well said. To me, sometimes, phrases like "I'll pray for you" are, depending on context, almost the same as saying "I can't even muster up enough compassion for you to do anything beyond the absolute least I can". It's sort of a way of saying, "Deal with your own problems and let me get back to x or y activity".
To address the O.P.'s question, I don't doubt that some genuine Christians act very worldly and never grow. Salvation, this side of eternity, unfortunately does not mean perfection. Me, of all people, is not making excuses for this behaviour, though. Believe me.
To address the O.P.'s question, I don't doubt that some genuine Christians act very worldly and never grow. Salvation, this side of eternity, unfortunately does not mean perfection. Me, of all people, is not making excuses for this behaviour, though. Believe me.
This is what Jesus said...
Matthew 5:22 NASB
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."
Matthew 5:22 NASB
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."
I know this from experience and God's word. There are much I could say that many people miss about judging. There is a time and way to judge then there is a time not to judge, and there is also wrong ways to judge. And the difficult part of that is understanding and how you judge. Many parts where true Christian's mess this up is when they are saved (being saved us everlasting), they do learn more of what is right and wrong and when God even sees us sinning, he hates the sin, enough that he will put it to hell forever. But he has mercy on us with love, so we should do the same to others. Yet God does say to speak his word to others in the world and not to just be saved and stay away from unsaved people. They need to hear the word of God. And many times, yes, people will be mad at Christian's and hate God's word for it proves no human alone is good. That all humans are all evil as any other. Yet many Christians go judging sinners and other Christian people when they do bad things because they don't like to see sin either, our spirit of God will want us to hate sin, yet we need the live of God in our minds. Which is an unconditional love. It didn't mean we should never tell them that they aren't wrong, but that we tell them and show kindness and love still. So, we can say how they are wrong in sin, and tell them by God's word what is good and show why. But insulting them, just making them feel bad, showing that we don't do the bad things they do and thinking we are better, all that stuff is wrong. Now God could do that and not be evil to us, but that isn't love. That is righteous judgment against evil. But as we are humans who don't deserve forgiveness and are nothing without God, we are sill no better being saved than someone who is unsaved. All sins are equal to God. Murdering is no worse than stealing a small ball from a kid. They are sin, and any sin is pure evil and not of God. And we shouldn't be setting ourselves as better people being Christian's, but we should be in this world to love and help the ones who need God. We do need to help them understand his word, but not by force, mean words, insults, only showing they are wrong, but showing that the Lord can help them, for we all do wrong and can't change our evil lives on our own. And be an example showing he has helped us and is changing our lives, and show that even though we were all wrong in some way, we shouldn't continue to live that way for this life is nothing good without God. And that he is willing to help yes and save us from sin and evil things. That his goal isn't to show others that they are wrong and let them suffer, but that he wants to love us in a relationship and give us a true life with a purpose to life for what is good without sin. We Christian's are to be an example of Jesus, and when evil beings were in front of him, and it was proven of their wickedness, he didn't judge them by many ways people do saying how horrible they are, he showed them love, gave the truth, willing to help them if they will trust him and let him, and he told them to not go on sinning anymore, but to follow God and not things of the world. When we see others judging anyone, don't think about if you should ignore them, or if they are wrong, don't think that it's just what they think, but think about God's word and understandings, try to understand Jesus and his doings, and ask and think about if their judgment is from God and if what they are saying is what Jesus would say we should do. Because God gives us judgement and tells us how to judge others. And good works through his people. So don't go thinking no Christian should judge, but pay attention to if their judgments are if God or of themselves
The OP is wrong!
Besides what psycho mom said, you have no idea what specific examples those unsaved people were talking about, before the conversation ended.
On FB today, for example, a friend posted a beautiful poem about all Christ had done for us. Under it was a picture of Christ being whipped, with a thorn of crowns. A mutual friend demanded he take down the picture because it offended her. This same woman is crude, swears about everything, actually never posts without cursing.
She has been a friend for a long time, and now I see why God won't let me shut her out. She is under heavy conviction.
So who was really offended? Even she will admit the person who posted is ok. But if he keeps up his strong witness, will she shut him out? I know for a fact he prays for this lost woman. Who is the real hypocrite? Is this really about praying for someone, or the foolishness of the cross?
"For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, [SUP]23 [/SUP]but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, [SUP]24 [/SUP]but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." 1 Cor. 1: 22-24
My experience is actually the opposite. When I say I am going to pray for someone, they are always so glad, because they know of my faith in God. That is the way to win people to Christ! And if they are convicted about the power of God, it only means God is really working on them. At least that is how I felt about people who said they would pray for me, before I was saved.
PS I do think that one must actually pray for someone, if they say they are going to. Perhaps that is where the hypocrisy comes in?
Besides what psycho mom said, you have no idea what specific examples those unsaved people were talking about, before the conversation ended.
On FB today, for example, a friend posted a beautiful poem about all Christ had done for us. Under it was a picture of Christ being whipped, with a thorn of crowns. A mutual friend demanded he take down the picture because it offended her. This same woman is crude, swears about everything, actually never posts without cursing.
She has been a friend for a long time, and now I see why God won't let me shut her out. She is under heavy conviction.
So who was really offended? Even she will admit the person who posted is ok. But if he keeps up his strong witness, will she shut him out? I know for a fact he prays for this lost woman. Who is the real hypocrite? Is this really about praying for someone, or the foolishness of the cross?
"For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, [SUP]23 [/SUP]but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, [SUP]24 [/SUP]but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." 1 Cor. 1: 22-24
My experience is actually the opposite. When I say I am going to pray for someone, they are always so glad, because they know of my faith in God. That is the way to win people to Christ! And if they are convicted about the power of God, it only means God is really working on them. At least that is how I felt about people who said they would pray for me, before I was saved.
PS I do think that one must actually pray for someone, if they say they are going to. Perhaps that is where the hypocrisy comes in?