Anyone into music mixing?

[Abing]

Thank you! And lol I'll have to listen to "You Never Know" again. Does it sound too high? I actually sang it myself lol. I mean I try to sing my own songs and covers. Just haven't recorded the ones I written. I was experimenting with Logic Pro last night and tested some plugins. It's very overwhelming lol too many controls. Oh and I did use AutoTune on "No Longer Slaves". Was it noticeable? I used the Garageband one and set it at 25.

 

[DP]

Yes, the song You Never Know just isn't in the right key for your voice. I hear you struggling with the high notes in it, starting around 0:40. Compare it with No Longer Slaves, which starts out near the bottom of your vocal range. Somewhere in between those two ranges is your ideal range. Around 3:01 on No Longer Slaves forward is much better. Sovereign-Over-Us is no doubt your best work there; look at the phrase 'faith-ful", the "ful" note. (I'm trying to not be too critical here, but if I'm not honest with you how will you improve?)

If you play while singing, you might try recording the piano part first, then recording your vocal with the piano in playback. That way you can concentrate on your vocal performance more and get a better vocal performance.

It's also common with vocal recording to do several takes, one right after another, recording them all, and then cut and paste the best performed parts to make up the whole song. There should be a record control feature in your DAW that you set, and it continually plays the song over and over without stopping, while you record a brand new... vocal track on each pass. All you do is wait for the new pass that will come around automatically. That is done a lot in studios when recording vocals. When they've done several passes of the song, they have all these separate vocal tracks to choose the best performances from; they do a cut and paste of the best vocal sections together to make up the final vocal track. Lot of people don't realize they do this in studios, even with professional singers that sound perfect to most people's ears all the time.

I also suggest using a 'click' track for timing when recording, if you're not doing that already. All DAWs have a metronome feature you can setup.

 

[Abing]

Yes, the song You Never Know just isn't in the right key for your voice. I hear you struggling with the high notes in it, starting around 0:40. Compare it with No Longer Slaves, which starts out near the bottom of your vocal range. Somewhere in between those two ranges is your ideal range. Around 3:01 on No Longer Slaves forward is much better. Sovereign-Over-Us is no doubt your best work there; look at the phrase 'faith-ful", the "ful" note. (I'm trying to not be too critical here, but if I'm not honest with you how will you improve?)

Thank you! Truth is I've never had honest feedback on my vocals so I never really knew what to work on. So I really appreciate this. I've had no formal vocal training so I only sing the songs that I like, never really paying attention to my vocal range. This makes me realise, I'll have to learn about how my voice works. Right now I just keep doing covers so I can find my style of singing.

If you play while singing, you might try recording the piano part first, then recording your vocal with the piano in playback. That way you can concentrate on your vocal performance more and get a better vocal performance.

I recorded Sovereign Over Us while playing, the other two I recorded the piano part first.

It's also common with vocal recording to do several takes, one right after another, recording them all, and then cut and paste the best performed parts to make up the whole song. There should be a record control feature in your DAW that you set, and it continually plays the song over and over without stopping, while you record a brand new... vocal track on each pass. All you do is wait for the new pass that will come around automatically. That is done a lot in studios when recording vocals. When they've done several passes of the song, they have all these separate vocal tracks to choose the best performances from; they do a cut and paste of the best vocal sections together to make up the final vocal track. Lot of people don't realize they do this in studios, even with professional singers that sound perfect to most people's ears all the time.

This I never knew. I always recorded one take. Then, I get exhausted practicing the entire song over and over that my last take, usually I don't edit anymore and just save it. I'll have to find out about this record control feature, it'll save me a lot of time. This is useful information! Thanks a lot.

I also suggest using a 'click' track for timing when recording, if you're not doing that already. All DAWs have a metronome feature you can setup.

I do use a metronome, but my last 2 recordings, I failed to edit the piano tracks and they came out of sync.

Thank you thank you! This makes me put things in perspective and on what I should prioritise first.

 

[Keksgestalt]

Hi there,

greedz from germany. well i am sitting right in front of my turntables. i don't make a science out of it. i personally mix electro/techno and stuff like that. and many people say that it's bad. well that is so and so.... it depends on what you mix. and THAT is the most important. i personally take care of not mixing vocals, and when i do, they are peaceful ones.

elohim is the greatest and in heaven the angels do day and night music for him and worship him.

1000 years ago there were only instruments like guitars and stuff like that.

but today we have electricity, and we have turntables. and hashem of course knows that ^^....

.... one point too in electronic music is euporia. and euphoria is a dangerous thing. many christians think to have the presence of " " because they sence a feeling of euphoria. they get goose bumps and think it's the presence of him. but euphoria is not the presence of him. i've truly seen wonders and in his presence it's only love and a kind of fear in fact pure horror coz u sence how cursed you are next to this pure love. this is no euphoria.... well just a small anektote

the importance is to not gloriphy the music itself, it's just music. all glory and always all an really every kind of glory only to him.

BUT: in my case when mixing i mix peaceful sound, with rhythm and all, and if i want to how can u say "party" on this music - then i worship my creator and his king of king sons through this music.

ghospel in my oppinion is not forced to be sung by voice. in this century, the century that elohim himself has created there are many many many kinds of music and i think you can ghospel through every kind of music.

and when i party to techno/electro i am praying and partying him and dancing like a crazy (like kind david danced like a crazy to worship him)....

.... people say that the rhythms of techno or electro is used by black magicians from africa.... maybe..... but guitars/pianos are used by satanists too to do bad things or magic - so this is no argument.

elohim loves us no matter through wich way we praise him, hi understands everything.

we must try to be human-fishers.... by every possibility.... and if you give ghospel to a metal fan it wont convince him, in fact he will be bored....

.... same for me, i am bored of ghospel of singing, i don't like vocals in music, it's a matter of taste. so my ghospel is through the music that i like and that reflects my feelings.

well this is just my thing ^^....

peace dude may Yahuah bless u all !

 

[DP]

Hi there,

greedz from germany. well i am sitting right in front of my turntables. i don't make a science out of it. i personally mix electro/techno and stuff like that. and many people say that it's bad. well that is so and so.... it depends on what you mix. and THAT is the most important. i personally take care of not mixing vocals, and when i do, they are peaceful ones.

elohim is the greatest and in heaven the angels do day and night music for him and worship him.

1000 years ago there were only instruments like guitars and stuff like that.

but today we have electricity, and we have turntables. and hashem of course knows that ^^....

....

.... same for me, i am bored of ghospel of singing, i don't like vocals in music, it's a matter of taste. so my ghospel is through the music that i like and that reflects my feelings.

well this is just my thing ^^....

peace dude may Yahuah bless u all !

Hi Keksgestalt.

Thanks for sharing that.

I'm not much into electronic dance/trance, but I do love the slower tunes written by Paul van Dyk.

 

[Abing]

So, I have another question, DP. (I'm still working on EQ-ing like what you told me). This came to mind, though. How do you mix acoustic songs, like say with only guitars and vocals... do you have more tips?

 

[chancer]

So, I have another question, DP. (I'm still working on EQ-ing like what you told me). This came to mind, though. How do you mix acoustic songs, like say with only guitars and vocals... do you have more tips?

Morning morning SIS, hope ur well ... haven't seen u for a bit

 

[Abing]

Morning morning SIS, hope ur well ... haven't seen u for a bit

Hey Chancer! That's because I've been working on a song. Oh I'll let you hear it. I'm at work right now, and can't wait to get home and work on it lel. How you been? I haven't been in chat in forever, but I hope you're doing great.

 

[jonams]

Oh chancer its you

 

[chancer]

Ohhhhhh, great can't wait to hear it ... work work work lol ... Yeah I've had my ups and downs but so so lol. GBU

 

[Abing]

I found a really helpful video about mixing, helped me understand what I'm doing, a little lel.

[video=youtube;YEorsfZe4vU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEorsfZe4vU[/video]

 

[DP]

So, I have another question, DP. (I'm still working on EQ-ing like what you told me). This came to mind, though. How do you mix acoustic songs, like say with only guitars and vocals... do you have more tips?

I assume you mean one acoustic guitar with vocal...

You'd place the guitar either to one side off center (not hard panned to either side), or leave in the center but move it behind the vocal (vocal should always be center today). It can be treated a lot of different ways, depending on how big a part of the song it is.

Here's an example. Darcey's vocal was all there was to begin with. All other instruments were dubbed in later:

Falling In Love With A Girl
https://db.tt/1UZ3XNtY

Notice how the acoustic guitar is slightly off left-center of her vocal, in the background and not bright. It's serving as a Pad.

If the acoustic guitar part is more important, needing to be brighter because finger picking, or acoustic lead solo, etc., you'd pan it farther to one side, but would most likely need another type instrument to offset it on the other side. The idea is to keep a mix balance between the sides also, but giving the center main focus still, like the vocal.

 

[eternallife7]

I'm studying music theory right now and plan to get a daw soon God willing.

 

[DP]

I'm studying music theory right now and plan to get a daw soon God willing.

Cool, do you play an instrument?

I used to play guitar, but arthritis or carpel tunnel limits me in that.

Feel free to ask for advice on using the DAW, arranging, mixing, composing, etc. I've studied mixing for several years, 2 years under a Nashville Gospel producer, and I've studied composition for film and TV at Berklee College of Music for a year. I have a Specialist Certificate from them in Orchestration.

 

[Abing]

I assume you mean one acoustic guitar with vocal...

You'd place the guitar either to one side off center (not hard panned to either side), or leave in the center but move it behind the vocal (vocal should always be center today). It can be treated a lot of different ways, depending on how big a part of the song it is.

Here's an example. Darcey's vocal was all there was to begin with. All other instruments were dubbed in later:

Falling In Love With A Girl
https://db.tt/1UZ3XNtY

Notice how the acoustic guitar is slightly off left-center of her vocal, in the background and not bright. It's serving as a Pad.

If the acoustic guitar part is more important, needing to be brighter because finger picking, or acoustic lead solo, etc., you'd pan it farther to one side, but would most likely need another type instrument to offset it on the other side. The idea is to keep a mix balance between the sides also, but giving the center main focus still, like the vocal.

Yay cool. Yes this was what I was asking about lol. So I did try what you've advised for my most recent mix, It sounded... interesting! Lol. I had a hard time finding which frequencies to cut... I never thought it was that hard lol. But I'm going to review my work tonight and see what you think of it. Thanks a lot!

 

[Abing]

Oh also, I think I'll mention, I had the most difficult time EQing vocals. Didn't know which frequencies to boost... And which instruments to pan to the left or right. Argh. I did add reverb for the pads... but I couldn't tell the difference.

 

[DP]

Oh also, I think I'll mention, I had the most difficult time EQing vocals. Didn't know which frequencies to boost... And which instruments to pan to the left or right. Argh. I did add reverb for the pads... but I couldn't tell the difference.

It takes time to learn the various frequency ranges of vocalists and instruments. That's something you'll ever be learning if you do much mixing. If you're mixing 20 different instruments in a song, you simply have to do trade-offs of what frequencies to keep and which ones to cut, basing that on the song. I've seen and done some very drastic EQ cuts of instruments just to get them to fit in the mix.

Each instrument or vocal has multiple frequency areas in the spectrum that are important. And they all have frequencies that pile up in the mid range area around 250-350Hz, which is an area many mixers do a cut on.

The best way to learn where the important frequencies are for an instrument/vocal is to use a high or low cut filter and slide the filter up or down while paying attention to what kind of sound you're hearing at a specific frequency area. Try to remember what you're hearing based on the location of ranges instead of trying to remember a specific frequency, ranges like the 1) highs 2) high mids 3) mids 4) low mids 5) bass. That will make it easier to learn the important frequency areas.

Here's a good source:

Magic Frequencies

 

[Abing]

I'm studying music theory right now and plan to get a daw soon God willing.

Hey just seen this! Which DAW are you getting? I just started with music theory too. Well, I try to study that but I think I'll be focusing more on contemporary production in the future. Just getting started with all this stuff. Are you into arranging too? It'd be cool to collaborate sometimes and we can learn from each other . DP has some really good advise and tips and helpful resources.

 

[Abing]

It takes time to learn the various frequency ranges of vocalists and instruments. That's something you'll ever be learning if you do much mixing. If you're mixing 20 different instruments in a song, you simply have to do trade-offs of what frequencies to keep and which ones to cut, basing that on the song. I've seen and done some very drastic EQ cuts of instruments just to get them to fit in the mix.

Each instrument or vocal has multiple frequency areas in the spectrum that are important. And they all have frequencies that pile up in the mid range area around 250-350Hz, which is an area many mixers do a cut on.

The best way to learn where the important frequencies are for an instrument/vocal is to use a high or low cut filter and slide the filter up or down while paying attention to what kind of sound you're hearing at a specific frequency area. Try to remember what you're hearing based on the location of ranges instead of trying to remember a specific frequency, ranges like the 1) highs 2) high mids 3) mids 4) low mids 5) bass. That will make it easier to learn the important frequency areas.

Here's a good source:

Magic Frequencies

Alright, gonna check this out at home. Quick question. Do I have to cut on 250-350Hz for ALL instrument tracks and boost vocals?

 

[DP]

Alright, gonna check this out at home. Quick question. Do I have to cut on 250-350Hz for ALL instrument tracks and boost vocals?

I know some mixers that always do a cut around 400Hz, like a 1.0 to 2.0 Q (width) and about a 3dB cut. They pretty much do that on anything they mix, regardless of style. But that's a personal taste thing. Listening and understanding what you're hearing is more important than just using that as a fix-all formula.

A spectral analyzer is one of your most important tools for learning about the different frequencies, allows you see them. Most every DAW includes one, and there's some free ones on the Internet. You can play each instrument while looking at the spectral analyzer and see where each instrument's range is, and where most of its power frequencies are which will show up as spikes.

It's a good idea to do a low end filter cut on each track. Depending on the type of instrument determines how far up you'd put the filter. Cymbals for examples don't have much in the low end, so you can filter them up pretty high, to around 400Hz. Any low frequencies on that cymbal track will then be cleared out of the way, making sure there's no conflict with the lower instruments like bass, kick, etc. Guitars, usually can filter them up to around 130Hz. The snare up to around 130-150Hz. Vocals up to around 100-130Hz. Piano, up to around 120Hz.

Then with the final mix, a low cut filter up to around 25-35Hz on the low end. And then a high cut filter with a fairly steep curve down to around 18kHz, leaving the bottom line of the filter all the way up to 20kHz.

Here's what an EQ on the Master bus of a finished mix might look like:

https://db.tt/qxP59kUT

Most always, you'll need to do some kind of EQ cut of bass instruments in the 250-350Hz range, like bass guitar, kick, and any synth parts that act like a bass. I often do a drastic cut of the bass and kick in that area.

Here's an EQ pic of just the bass treatment on Marcey's Falling In Love With A Girl tune. I actually could have cut out some more in low end:

https://db.tt/OlQLpQjQ


Hope that helps!