Chris Tomlin -- bad doctrine?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
santuzza

santuzza

Senior Member
#1
Feb 12, 2013
1,609
38
48
#1
I was listening to Christian music on iHeart Radio this morning and heard a song named "Good Good Father" by Chris Tomlin and I was astonished to find these lyrics:

You are perfect in all of your ways
You are perfect in all of your ways
You are perfect in all of your ways to us

​
(emphasis mine) Besides the fact that there is a ridiculous amount of repetitiveness in the lyrics throughout the entire song, I find these specific lyrics to be offensive to God. God is not perfect just to us as Believers, but He is perfect because He is perfect -- to everyone regardless of whether they believe or not.

Am I overreacting here, or is this really bad doctrine?



​
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#2
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#2
He is a good, good Father....He is perfect in all His ways..

Deuteronomy 32:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] "The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.
John 16:27 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#3
#3
santuzza said:
I was listening to Christian music on iHeart Radio this morning and heard a song named "Good Good Father" by Chris Tomlin and I was astonished to find these lyrics:

You are perfect in all of your ways
You are perfect in all of your ways
You are perfect in all of your ways to us

​
(emphasis mine) Besides the fact that there is a ridiculous amount of repetitiveness in the lyrics throughout the entire song, I find these specific lyrics to be offensive to God. God is not perfect just to us as Believers, but He is perfect because He is perfect -- to everyone regardless of whether they believe or not.

Am I overreacting here, or is this really bad doctrine?



​
Click to expand...

I dont know enough about him and what he believes. I read the lyrics to this song and I would say its not one of his best. I enjoy some of his songs but Im careful. Like with Hillsong,some weird ideas get in there that are not correct as far as doctrine goes. And to me,doctrine is very important.
 
C

cmarieh

Guest
#4
#4
One thing you have to remember is God's perfect in all of his ways to us believers and those who don't believe. However, the key point is that our views on what is perfect for us is totally different than what God has for us and that is where many of us get disappointed. Personally I am to the point where I have God direct me in all things even though I try to fight it after all we are human.

Anyways that is my opinion
 
S

sealabeag

Guest
#5
#5
I'm familiar with the song, and I really like it. To be honest I think (with all due respect, and not to offend) you are being overly scrupulous. In all reality, the writer of the song probably gave those two little words little thought, and flowed more from his/her heart than from anything doctrinal. And also, He is perfect in all of His ways. To us and to everyone, yes, but the song doesn't suggest that He is imperfect to unbelievers.
 
eternallife7

eternallife7

Senior Member
#6
May 19, 2015
659
6
0
#6
I heard a Toby Mac song once that sounded like he said he became Jehovah. I never read the lyrics are anything, but I listened to it a few times and it sounded like it. Hey also now that I think about Chris Tomlin has a song that says You will never give up on us no matter how far we run. It might rhyme with the previous verse, but we are to abide in Christ and those that don't are cast aside. We are to be the salt of the earth but if the salt loses its flavor.......... However, I have learned that only God and the other person truly know about the covenant between them. We can know people by their fruits, but only God can judge who has broken His covenant completely. Oh that song by Toby Mac is called Made to Love.
 
Last edited:
Odelschwanck

Odelschwanck

Senior Member
#7
Jan 7, 2015
380
102
43
#7
At what point in that song does he say he's become Jehovah?

Was Good Good Father written by Chris Tomlin? I think there were at least two other Good Good Fathers that came out around the same time, Zealand's being the first one I'd heard. I'm not that familiar with the song(s) but from the lyrics you posted I'd say it's an overreaction. You could say he was being irresponsibly sloppy (I wouldn't even go that far), but I don't think he was implying what you think he's implying.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#8
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#8
I have a "method" of sorts that I use when it comes to famous ministers & singers, & it's that I am immediately suspicious of them.
I know, we're told to look for the best in people, but after so many failures with the "rich & famous", & the church being in its closing hours, one must take great caution to what they hear.

For example, if a singer works for Kenny Copeland, or some of those other whackos out there, their message in their music can't be trusted, for birds of a feather flock together.

Some artists believe their words are prophetic.....from God Himself..... yet God NEVER has a warning for the church? IMO, they're no different than the false prophets they agree with.

There's nothing wrong with singing about what's wrong in the world, or how evil tries to overtake us, as long as in the end God gets the glory for deliverance & making it right. After all, that's at the heart of the Psalms.:)
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#9
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,373
113
#9
I don't know the song in question, but I find that quite a few praise songs (including some old hymns) have lyrics which aren't crisply biblical (or are just awkward). There are some for which I choose to sing different words, and some I simply won't sing.

Having written a few songs myself (nothing worth sharing, so don't ask! :) ) I know that making a thought fit the meter and rhyme is a challenge. Taking emotionally-laden thoughts, translating them into words, and then making them fit is more challenging still. Ensuring that the result is in line with Scripture is a further challenge, one which some lyricists apparently skip.

Two examples: a lyric from about 15-20 years ago by Clay Crosse, "let the rock that was rolled away be my cornerstone". Catchy, nice thought, dead wrong. How it managed to get so much radio time is beyond me.
A Hosanna/Integrity album with this lyric, "til the earth, appeased, rejoicing...". Well someone wasn't down with Webster on that one. I really like the song otherwise.

"Test all things, hold on to the good" and if you aren't comfortable with a lyric, don't sing it. If the writer is really off-kilter, that will become plain to all in due time. :)
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#10
#10
santuzza said:
I was listening to Christian music on iHeart Radio this morning and heard a song named "Good Good Father" by Chris Tomlin and I was astonished to find these lyrics:

You are perfect in all of your ways
You are perfect in all of your ways
You are perfect in all of your ways to us

​
(emphasis mine) Besides the fact that there is a ridiculous amount of repetitiveness in the lyrics throughout the entire song, I find these specific lyrics to be offensive to God. God is not perfect just to us as Believers, but He is perfect because He is perfect -- to everyone regardless of whether they believe or not.

Am I overreacting here, or is this really bad doctrine?



​
Click to expand...
I don't see the "emphasis mine" you mentioned, what Chris is doing is singing to God. The word US doesn't imply single or just one or a group/believers it means many/all. But if you believe when a Christian says us that it only pertains to believers that's not being welcoming to the no believers, surely we need to except them like a brother how would you ever tell them about Christ
this is why the song says US and not the saved or believers, there are many people who have never heard the song who aren't saved but that very song can change a heart that's what songs are for not only lifting the believer up but also to bring the non believers/the lost in. There are many people who don't go to church or even have a Christian friend to talk too but they listen to music on the radio stations and many have stumbled across a Christian song that changed them. God works in mysterious ways.

God is perfect in all of his ways
God is perfect in all of his ways
Gd is perfect in all of his ways to "people"
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#11
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#11
santuzza said:
I was listening to Christian music on iHeart Radio this morning and heard a song named "Good Good Father" by Chris Tomlin and I was astonished to find these lyrics:

You are perfect in all of your ways
You are perfect in all of your ways
You are perfect in all of your ways to us

​
(emphasis mine) Besides the fact that there is a ridiculous amount of repetitiveness in the lyrics throughout the entire song, I find these specific lyrics to be offensive to God. God is not perfect just to us as Believers, but He is perfect because He is perfect -- to everyone regardless of whether they believe or not.

Am I overreacting here, or is this really bad doctrine?



​
Click to expand...
Perhaps a bit of overreaction, but I think we all understand where you're coming from.

As for the repetitive music. If you aren't into music much, you may not have heard this, but most of us call this "7-11" music. (Seven words repeated eleven times.)
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#12
#12
Willie-T said:
Perhaps a bit of overreaction, but I think we all understand where you're coming from.

As for the repetitive music. If you aren't into music much, you may not have heard this, but most of us call this "7-11" music. (Seven words repeated eleven times.)
Click to expand...
O thank Heaven for 7-11
 
Consumed

Consumed

Senior Member
#13
Jun 4, 2015
112
1
0
#13
I've never face palmed more than when looking through at some of these comments.
 
willfollowsGod

willfollowsGod

Senior Member
#14
Apr 14, 2011
1,515
66
48
33
#14
I lovingly say that you are overacting. Plus, I am not sure that the song Good, Good Father is really a Chris Tomlin original but one that he decided to cover. So no I have no problem with the song. Since I have listened to his stuff before and it is sound theology. Have not found anything head-scratching yet. But it is good that you are aware of these things. As for the Clay Crosse that someone mentioned that is catchy but is definitely not scriptural. The rock that blocked the tomb that Jesus resurrected from the dead is not the same rock that is our cornerstone. But otherwise, I have listened to Christian songs and so far a lot of them I have no problem with yet. God bless.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#15
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#15
The one thing I've noticed since dealing with all the "hypergrace" threads is the countless songs about grace that contain nothing about faith & very little about Jesus Himself. Something to think about.....
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#16
#16
Stephen63 said:
The one thing I've noticed since dealing with all the "hypergrace" threads is the countless songs about grace that contain nothing about faith & very little about Jesus Himself. Something to think about.....
Click to expand...
Except that one first needs the milk before one can eat solid food. Not all the time Jesus comes to people with shock n Aw,
Bam here I Am.....sometimes Its with simple lyrics in Christian and non Christian songs it's in hearing him with the free will ear.
not all scripture speaks of faith and Jesus are these verses less important.
 
S

Sirchris

Guest
#17
#17
I think you're reading to much into it.
 
willfollowsGod

willfollowsGod

Senior Member
#18
Apr 14, 2011
1,515
66
48
33
#18
eternallife7 said:
I heard a Toby Mac song once that sounded like he said he became Jehovah. I never read the lyrics are anything, but I listened to it a few times and it sounded like it. Hey also now that I think about Chris Tomlin has a song that says You will never give up on us no matter how far we run. It might rhyme with the previous verse, but we are to abide in Christ and those that don't are cast aside. We are to be the salt of the earth but if the salt loses its flavor.......... However, I have learned that only God and the other person truly know about the covenant between them. We can know people by their fruits, but only God can judge who has broken His covenant completely. Oh that song by Toby Mac is called Made to Love.
Click to expand...
I just read the lyrics and he is definitely not calling himself Jehovah. Sometimes our hearing can be off. One time I heard a song that is called Rain Down and I thought they were saying Wangels or Angels. It was weird. But nope there is nothing wrong with that song. The breeze talked about in that verse is Jesus (God) being spirit. As for Chris Tomlin, that is a theological difference you have with them, so it does not compromise that song. Thanks. God bless.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#19
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#19
BeyondET said:
Except that one first needs the milk before one can eat solid food. Not all the time Jesus comes to people with shock n Aw,
Bam here I Am.....sometimes Its with simple lyrics in Christian and non Christian songs it's in hearing him with the free will ear.
not all scripture speaks of faith and Jesus are these verses less important.
Click to expand...
The messages in most christian songs ARE milk..... if they're truly christian..... & many aren't.

There are NO lyrics within secular music that would promote repentance or acceptance of Christ..... and I can prove it.

The Holy Spirit works within christian music to deal with people..... not the mix/mincing of words. Therefore, secular music is quite unable to do the job.:)
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#20
#20
Isn't God perfect to us? I would say the "mistake" or misunderstood interpretation people might make may be unintended. I might have to listen to it to get it. We're all sinners and we all are imperfect towards God.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.