Christian Florist Can Lose Personal Assets for Declining Gay Wedding, Judge Rules

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G4JC

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2011
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A florist in Washington State who refused to provide floral arrangements to a gay couple for their same-sex wedding ceremony, due to her religious objection to such a union, can now legally be sued personally by the state's attorney general's office, a judge in the state has determined.

Benton County Superior Court Judge Alex Ekstrom ruled last week that the state may bring a consumer protection lawsuit against Barronelle Stutzman, the owner of Arlene's Flowers in Richland, as she is being accused of violating the Consumer Protection Act when she declined to provide floral arrangements to a regular customer's same-sex wedding because it went against her Christian beliefs.

The judge's decision means that Stutzman remains at risk of suffering a serious personal financial hit and potential loss of her business. Ekstrom has set the trial date for March 23.
"The clear language of the Consumer Protection Act and state anti-discrimination law supports both corporation and individual liability," Ekstrom said in explaining his decision.

Read more: Christian Florist Can Lose Personal Assets for Declining Gay Wedding Due to 'Relationship With Jesus,' Judge Rules
Reddit: Christian Florist Can Lose Personal Assets for Declining Gay Wedding Due to 'Relationship With Jesus,' Judge Rules
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#2
A Christian Florist Can Lose "Personal Assets" for Declining Gay Wedding, Judge Rules
I bet you that'll be painful!
 
Oct 30, 2014
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A florist in Washington State who refused to provide floral arrangements to a gay couple for their same-sex wedding ceremony, due to her religious objection to such a union, can now legally be sued personally by the state's attorney general's office, a judge in the state has determined.

Benton County Superior Court Judge Alex Ekstrom ruled last week that the state may bring a consumer protection lawsuit against Barronelle Stutzman, the owner of Arlene's Flowers in Richland, as she is being accused of violating the Consumer Protection Act when she declined to provide floral arrangements to a regular customer's same-sex wedding because it went against her Christian beliefs.

The judge's decision means that Stutzman remains at risk of suffering a serious personal financial hit and potential loss of her business. Ekstrom has set the trial date for March 23.
"The clear language of the Consumer Protection Act and state anti-discrimination law supports both corporation and individual liability," Ekstrom said in explaining his decision.

Read more: Christian Florist Can Lose Personal Assets for Declining Gay Wedding Due to 'Relationship With Jesus,' Judge Rules
Reddit: Christian Florist Can Lose Personal Assets for Declining Gay Wedding Due to 'Relationship With Jesus,' Judge Rules
Same thing would happen in the UK. Flower arrangements can be counted as artistic works, thus representative of the author, but as long as the couple didn't ask for a giant ''I support gay people'' or something outlandish and clearly provocative that misrepresents the florist's own personal beliefs, there's really no legal argument that the shop seller was within rights not to sell the flowers to this couple just the same as they would any straight couple.

She's sold to this person, a regular customer, obviously several times before, and now refuses to sell floral arrangements because they are to be used for a same-sex wedding. There's this weird idea in America that selling goods to a gay person for their wedding is supporting their lifestyle. In reality, that shopkeeper has absolutely no such importance.

Would I be supporting a Hindu's lifestyle if I sold them flowers for their Hindu wedding? Supporting an Atheist's lifestyle if I sold them flowers for their nonreligious wedding? Naw, I'd be supporting my business by selling to who wanted to buy from me.
 
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Dec 12, 2013
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Just wait till they start suing churches because of refusal to accommodate people of such persuasion.....!
 
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Just wait till they start suing churches because of refusal to accommodate people of such persuasion.....!
Churches are institutions specifically founded in order to further a particular religious message from a book that recognizes marriage as solely between a man and woman. Religious churches have a right to operate within those restrictions. Secular businesses purposed to sell goods to the general public are not founded on the same principles.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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Churches are institutions specifically founded in order to further a particular religious message from a book that recognizes marriage as solely between a man and woman.
The most dry definition of the church I have ever heard. It sounds as if it was taken from the communist manifest.
 
Oct 30, 2014
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The most dry definition of the church I have ever heard. It sounds as if it was taken from the communist manifest.
It's not a definition of what a church is in general. It's a focused definition of a church in a legal context as regards to homosexuality and how churches operate within the frame of marriage and why.

Point is; churches can refuse, legally, to service a gay marriage because their purpose is furtherance of a religious message, part of which defines marriage as between a man and woman.

Have you read the Communist Manifesto to make the comparison? It was one of the most influential books ever written.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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It's not a definition of what a church is in general. It's a focused definition of a church in a legal context as regards to homosexuality and how churches operate within the frame of marriage and why.

Point is; churches can refuse, legally, to service a gay marriage because their purpose is furtherance of a religious message, part of which defines marriage as between a man and woman.

Have you read the Communist Manifesto to make the comparison? It was one of the most influential books ever written.
That's why it sounded so dry. Because politics sound dry and soulless.

I got your point about churches having the right to refuse to officiate gay marriages (or to ordain gay priests). I agree with you.

No, I haven't read the Communist Manifesto. But I come from an ex-communist country and am very used with the dry, pretentious language (called "wood language") of the communists.
 
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That's why it sounded so dry. Because politics sound dry and soulless.

I got your point about churches having the right to refuse to officiate gay marriages (or to ordain gay priests). I agree with you.

No, I haven't read the Communist Manifesto. But I come from an ex-communist country and am very used with the dry, pretentious language (called "wood language").
If you want fragrant prose, read a novel!
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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#11
First bakeries, now florists. If I start a business someday, I'll make sure it's nothing wedding-related.
 

djness

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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I've said this is in every other thread on this topic and I will say it again. Why are they serving other sinners but not the gay ones? If they want to stand their ground and say sin is wrong and we don't support it then they need kick every drunk guy buying flowers, every heroin addict buying flowers, every woman with a kid and no wedding ring out of their store.
Christians love to pick their hated sins these days and then when their is backlash say they are the persecuted ones.
Oh you think you are being persecuted??? Stop being a bunch of hypocrites and it won't happen.
 

G4JC

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2011
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@djness: I think the difference here is florist was serving gay customers, it mentions in the article he had purchased things several times. However when told it was going specifically for a gay wedding she opposed. I for one wouldn't knowingly contribute to the expansion of Sodom either.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
- Jude 1:7
 

djness

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
502
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@djness: I think the difference here is florist was serving gay customers, it mentions in the article he had purchased things several times. However when told it was going specifically for a gay wedding she opposed. I for one wouldn't knowingly contribute to the expansion of Sodom either.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
- Jude 1:7
But you would gladly profit unknowingly off the kingdom of satan.
I mean as long as they don't say who cares right?

Am I making a huge leap there?
 
Oct 30, 2014
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The opposite of "wood language" is not "fragrant", but natural, authentic, unpretentious.
It was correct and to the point. The thread is about legalities and service to gay people. I addressed the topic in succinct language. What do you want? A poem?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#16
Churches are institutions specifically founded in order to further a particular religious message from a book that recognizes marriage as solely between a man and woman. Religious churches have a right to operate within those restrictions. Secular businesses purposed to sell goods to the general public are not founded on the same principles.
Really, well how about the fact that many businesses in the U.S. for years have had signs up...no shirts no shoes no service...there have been no lawsuits and or issues with this ability to limit service based upon clothing and or shoes not being worn....

Or signs that state...We have the right to refuse service to anyone.......etc......at the end of the day......a business that does not take government funding should be allowed to serve whoever it wants to serve without fear of lawsuit.....if they couldn't get their flowers from one company I am sure there are numerous florists that would have sold them flowers.......

What is funny is the fact that if I walked into a place and they refused me service because I believe in Jesus I would say whatever, walk out and go find another business without filing a lawsuit......at the end of the day it is not about gay rights, but rather a fat payday and the love of $........! @###@##
 
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Really, well how about the fact that many businesses in the U.S. for years have had signs up...no shirts no shoes no service...there have been no lawsuits and or issues with this ability to limit service based upon clothing and or shoes not being worn....

Or signs that state...We have the right to refuse service to anyone.......etc......at the end of the day......a business that does not take government funding should be allowed to serve whoever it wants to serve without fear of lawsuit.....if they couldn't get their flowers from one company I am sure there are numerous florists that would have sold them flowers.......

What is funny is the fact that if I walked into a place and they refused me service because I believe in Jesus I would say whatever, walk out and go find another business without filing a lawsuit......at the end of the day it is not about gay rights, but rather a fat payday and the love of $........! @###@##
Right, but lets say you lived in a predominantly atheist nation, and a court case was heard where an atheist homosexual refused service to a straight guy for his wedding, and the straight guy lost the case, and a law was passed thereby that said shopkeepers could discriminate at will. Now lets say the next eight closest stores to you were atheist owned, and all decided upon the premise of that created law that they would not serve Christians. Say you've got no car and the only Christian store is 30 miles away.

Where do you get your milk, bread, cereal, rice, potatoes, vegetables, meat, toiletries, cell-phone top-up, tinned goods, tea and biscuits from?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Right, but lets say you lived in a predominantly atheist nation, and a court case was heard where an atheist homosexual refused service to a straight guy for his wedding, and the straight guy lost the case, and a law was passed thereby that said shopkeepers could discriminate at will. Now lets say the next eight closest stores to you were atheist owned, and all decided upon the premise of that created law that they would not serve Christians. Say you've got no car and the only Christian store is 30 miles away.

Where do you get your milk, bread, cereal, rice, potatoes, vegetables, meat, toiletries, cell-phone top-up, tinned goods, tea and biscuits from?
I would live off the grid like I do and keep 5 to 7 years of supplies stashed that I rotate through regularly while planting, harvesting and canning a garden and killing deer, turkeys, rabbit, quail, pheasant, chucker, dove, squirrels and catching fish....just like men did for thousands of years......how about you?
 
Oct 30, 2014
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I would live off the grid like I do and keep 5 to 7 years of supplies stashed that I rotate through regularly while planting, harvesting and canning a garden and killing deer, turkeys, rabbit, quail, pheasant, chucker, dove, squirrels and catching fish....just like men did for thousands of years......how about you?
I'd make sure the legal premise to allow people to discriminate against me at will was never put in place to begin with. I should also say that you sound like a crazy hermit conspiracy theorist awaiting the nuclear annihilation, and are probably not the best authority on equality issues in immersive society.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I'd make sure the legal premise to allow people to discriminate against me at will was never put in place to begin with. I should also say that you sound like a crazy hermit conspiracy theorist awaiting the nuclear annihilation, and are probably not the best authority on equality issues in immersive society.
Not really.....I have lived in the proverbial rat race and have chosen to take a slower pace in life.....and at the end of the day...WW3 seems to be coming in the near future.....you better get stocked up ;)