Trump offends the feminized American male

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Aug 12, 2015
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#41
Omni, are you an anarchist? I mean, is there a chance I would you see you throwing rocks into windows on Wall Street? I tend to believe there's a great possibility of that.
Hear this: The last thing this country needs is another socialist/communist in the White House.

Now, in your first post prior to the one above, well, you assume too much. You do.

What you hear on the news is not the truth. Okay.

Enroll in economics 101. Really. Not at a public school. A private conservative one. The former will inject philosophy. The latter will present the facts. You'll learn about fixed costs, taxation, utility, demand, resources, shifts, and a host of other elements of economics.

Capitalism, free markets, less government, Greece ain't got any of that to scale. EU is worse off than US. Always has been, always will be.
So, your response is "yeah dude, get an education buddy, alright? Cause, like, I can't think of anything to write back to you but you're so, like, dumb, dude. Private education all the way".

Private conservative schools represent pompous rich conservative viewpoints. I assume that's where you got yours.

Read some Chomsky.
 
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Galahad

Guest
#42
So, your response is "yeah dude, get an education buddy, alright? Cause, like, I can't think of anything to write back to you but you're so, like, dumb, dude. Private education all the way".

Private conservative schools represent pompous rich conservative viewpoints. I assume that's where you got yours.

Read some Chomsky.
No. No. No.

I don't care if you have zero education. My point is, your remarks about economics are not correct. Okay. And that's not how my education came. Not even close.

Conservative does not refer to political or social. It is just the facts of economics.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#43
So, your response is "yeah dude, get an education buddy, alright? Cause, like, I can't think of anything to write back to you but you're so, like, dumb, dude. Private education all the way".

Private conservative schools represent pompous rich conservative viewpoints. I assume that's where you got yours.

Read some Chomsky.
Chomsky? That would be like someone telling you to read Ayn Rand. :rolleyes:
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#45
Yeah, because democrats have so much more integrity.

Puke.
I don't buy into the whole democrat vs republican thing. It's kinda silly. There are a lot of democrats that have views I don't agree with, and a lot of republicans, too, and over the course of my lifetime, the Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties who have held varying degrees of control in the White House, the Senate and the House of Representatives. If there's to be blame for the state of the country, it rests with both of those parties.

There's a sort of delusion in a lot of the US population that voting for one or the other makes a long term difference. It doesn't, really. Both of those parties hold slightly varying policies, and both end up with marginally varying degrees of control, because not that many more people are Republican advocates than Democrat advocates, at any given time, so both parties end up coming to agreements that don't fully meet the demands or expectations of the advocates of either party.

Both parties, I notice, hold a central shared philosophy; the working class are penalized disproportionately to the rich. And continuing to vote one into some marginally greater position of power than the other, just keeps leading to the same sort of inadequate compromises we've been seeing for years.

The electoral system needs reform (power of referendum, limits on lobbying, limits on private funding), or there need to be viable alternatives to the Democrats and Republicans, or both.
 
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Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
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#46
Yea but the thing is, Trump don't seem very different to me. People forget all the other times he's been in GOP debates and dropped out. If Trump actually won though I don't think it be good for America or for even himself. Trump is too independent and libertine. Works well as a private citizen, and it is even a common mindset in America. Does not work so well as public servant though. At this time and where we're going to find ourselves at after Obama is a sober reality check. We don't need a reality TV star. For this job need someone fair-handed, rational, and experienced.


For now though it is still early. It's all just a show and Trump may still prove useful.

View attachment 134241
Much better card game than pokemon.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#47
I don't buy into the whole democrat vs republican thing. It's kinda silly. There are a lot of democrats that have views I don't agree with, and a lot of republicans, too, and over the course of my lifetime, the Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties who have held varying degrees of control in the White House, the Senate and the House of Representatives. If there's to be blame for the state of the country, it rests with both of those parties.

There's a sort of delusion in a lot of the US population that voting for one or the other makes a long term difference. It doesn't, really. Both of those parties hold slightly varying policies, and both end up with marginally varying degrees of control, because not that many more people are Republican advocates than Democrat advocates, at any given time, so both parties end up coming to agreements that don't fully meet the demands or expectations of the advocates of either party.

Both parties, I notice, hold a central shared philosophy; the working class are penalized disproportionately to the rich. And continuing to vote one into some marginally greater position of power than the other, just keeps leading to the same sort of inadequate compromises we've been seeing for years.

The electoral system needs reform (power of referendum, limits on lobbying, limits on private funding), or there need to be viable alternatives to the Democrats and Republicans, or both.
Strangely enough, you've tapped into the reasons why Trump has been successful. Albeit, the Karl Marx fried version thereof.
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#49
No. No. No.

I don't care if you have zero education. My point is, your remarks about economics are not correct. Okay. And that's not how my education came. Not even close.

Conservative does not refer to political or social. It is just the facts of economics.
I don't think conservatism is synonymous with economic fact. Economic fact doesn't require any particular position on the political compass; facts are just facts. Political philosophy drives what we intend to do with those facts; it dictates which direction we intend to take the economy.

As for your comments on philosophy economy and education, here are my two cents.

Would you agree that you and I, like all humans, did not ask to be born? That's probably a strange question, but think about it. Would you agree that you did not ask to arrive in this world, nor to have the parents that you had? Put another way, did you choose to exist in the twentieth century United States, with all the opportunities it provided you, as opposed to the 18th century England or any other time period or place in history?

I ask because, to my eyes, if you didn't choose these things, then the circumstances of your birth and childhood are beyond your control; children are born where they are born and when they are born and to which parents they are born, and it is a matter of chance whether they are born underprivileged or wealthy, black or white, male or female. So you and I, like all children, were at the mercy of fate to have lived our childhoods in the families we did. It is the will of the universe, or of God, or the result of whichever random event leads to conception and birth in whichever time and place.


I personally came from a poor Irish family, and that wasn't my choice. However, the way in which I utilized the hand I was dealt, as it were, was my choice. But in order to make a choice at all, one must first be presented with options, then one must take one option over the others, yet even our options are not our own to present.

Before I went to university, I had the option of loaning many thousands of pounds out to pay for my tuition costs, or to stay home and forego an education. Those were my only options. I didn't dictate the options available to me, I simply chose one of the options with which I was presented. I made my own path but the direction in which it began was dictated by the conditions in which I must make my choices. More relevantly, my choices for education were dictated by what avenues were available to me to learn. The only two avenues were government loans, or no education. Those were my options. Now, the people who are in charge of students loans had a power in dictating which choices I had. Those in charge of the rates of those loans had absolute power over at what cost I got my education (and that cost could just have easily been too high for me to meet), and they still do have that power, for millions of other potential students from underprivileged backgrounds.

Who are those people? Well, David Cameron, the current UK Prime Minister, was educated at Eton, a privileged, conservative, private school. The Chancellor of the Exchequer (the man in charge of economic policy) George Osbourne, was also educated there. Both Cameron and Osbourne hold the position that student grants (income-assessed money to supplement loans, that is given to the underprivileged by the government so that they can access university) should be scrapped in the UK, and they believe that tuition fees should be more expensive than they currently are, and thus that kids from underprivelaged backgrounds should have to take out even more massive loans than I did, in order to fund their university educations. Meanwhile, both of those men had their private school educations handed to them by rich parents, and had their university degrees paid for in full by the government at a time when UK education was predominantly publically funded.

Those two men, having had the affluent upbringing that they had, were presented with more theoretical options than I was. They went to a good school, had rich and relatively powerful parents, and thus could choose from an array of options unavailable to me. It seems to me, however, they they have chosen to utilize the experience of their privileged childhoods, the political opportunities afforded them, and the subsequent political and financial support of their people, to hurt those less well off than they are. It seems to me that they have chosen to wield that power, the power to dictate the educational options available to millions, by showing little empathy or compassion for those who were born into means less plentiful than theirs. The underprivileged do not choose that. That is a choice those men have made for the underprivileged.

You seem to think I was indoctrinated into a philosophy in my educational institution, simply because I was taught in a state school, and then in a UK university. But that's not the case. I came to believe in a certain philosophy because of the experiences I have had in the economic position in which I have lived for much of my life. It's got nothing to do with what I was taught from books by some liberal professor. I'm a lower-class boy from a poor family. I have the experiences of a lower-class boy from a poor family. I understand what it means to be a lower class boy from a poor family.

But these two men don't understand it. Their experience of "lower class" is watching it from afar in what is in relative terms extreme affluence. They don't have my experiences. They genuinely don't understand what it is to be poor. I am absolutely convinced, in the way that it is not possible to fully understand and appreciate being poor by reading The Road to Wigan Pier, neither is it possible for well off men to understand the thoughts and more importantly the feelings of being underprivileged and lacking options, simply by watching the poor from a position of comfort, by hearing tales which are given to them as abstracts -- by looking at studies and numbers, facts and figures -- and by making a superficial effort to understand it. You might protest that, but if these two men really made a concentrated, genuine effort to understand what being underprivileged feels like -- the fear, the anxiety, the desperation, the sense of subjugation at the hands of a system we never asked to be born into, the inequality -- then I am quite sure they would find ways and means to express such deep empathy for the most impoverished in society by implementing policies that are financially beneficial for them. Yet, they have done exactly the opposite; they have empowered and enriched the rich, and levied the monetary burdens of the economy on the poor. They've decided to make access to education even less affordable for those whose options are already severely limited. They want to make education practically inaccessible to the lower-class Irish lad who doesn't have two coins to rub together. And they delude themselves into thinking "it's good for the economy".

In reality, it's good for the rich, upper-income end of the economic spectrum. It drives the interests of the already deeply elitist British upper class. It's an unacceptable, blatant step towards making access to education a right only for the rich and I personally don't think educational access should be dependent on whether or not my parents and their parents were educated enough to earn enough money to pay for my tuition (a cost that is going to get more expensive the longer the conservative government stay in power).

If I, or anyone else, nomatter their economic background, is smart enough to gain entrance to university, they should be able to attend it. People shouldn't be penalized for being less wealthy than someone else. Neither should the unintelligent be treated like dogs bodies because they're less intelligent than someone else. But the British conservatives seem to disagree with this. That in and of itself tells me that those people are out of touch with the lower classes.

That's why I say beware a privileged politician. They don't care about the interests of the poor. And you, I suspect, haven't got the experiences sufficient to give a hoot either.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#50
Except he's a Republican.
Do not confuse being a Republican with being establishment. Or Democrat with being establishment for that matter.

In any event, non sequitur.
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#51
Do not confuse being a Republican with being establishment. Or Democrat with being establishment for that matter.

In any event, non sequitur.
If he's a Republican, he can shout about being anti-establishment all he wants. Once he's in office (if that happens) he'll have to resort to the same lame old false-jockeying appeasement of his predecessors. There's very little a President can do that his staff, the Senate and the House of Representatives have no say in.

Again, the Senate and HoR will be a mix of Democrats and Republicans.
 
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Sirk

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#52
If he's a Republican, he can shout about being anti-establishment all he wants. Once he's in office (if that happens) he'll have to resort to the same lame old false-jockeying appeasement of his predecessors. There's very little a President can do that his staff, the Senate and the House of Representatives have no say in.

Again, the Senate and HoR will be a mix of Democrats and Republicans.
He has the authority to tear up a whole bunch of executive orders....which he said he will do.
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#53
He has the authority to tear up a whole bunch of executive orders....which he said he will do.
And the people who wanted them will get offended, mass-vote for someone who'll reinstate them, and round and round the merrygoround we go. Our of curiosity, which executive orders?
 
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Sirk

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#54
And the people who wanted them will get offended, mass-vote for someone who'll reinstate them, and round and round the merrygoround we go. Our of curiosity, which executive orders?
He specifically mentioned one regarding amnesty.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#55
He has the authority to tear up a whole bunch of executive orders....which he said he will do.
True. Any person elected President has the authority to negate any Executive Order issued by a former President. However, this differs from changing the Law or the Constitution.

Most of what Trump is complaining about was passed through Congress as Law, so he will not be able to tear them up. Best he can do is order the appropriate Agency (who enforces said Law) to not do so. Much like what Obama has done with ICE and their not enforcing Immigration Laws.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

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#56
Aren't we supposed to just roll over and let em scratch our good boy bellies???? Lol

Donald Trump: Warrior male extraordinaire
Are you kidding me, Sirk? Really? The opening paragraph ...

"In 1987, I published the first book in the field of Human Paleopsychology. This approach is premised on two basic assumptions: First, human beings have an ancient and rich evolutionary history, and second, that ancient history is thoroughly involved in everything we feel, think and do personally, politically and morally. According to famed neuroscientist Paul MacLean, the human brain is composed of a primeval reptilian segment at the lowest level, a mammalian segment at mid-level and a human or neocortical segment at the highest level. I added the notion that we human beings are constantly “regressing down” or “progressing up” MacLean’s triune brain system in the natural flow of behavior."

As a Christian, I have to reject any concept of anyone based on an evolutionary model. As a Christian, so should you. Donald Trump, a "warrior male"? If a "warrior male" is a loud-mouth imbecile capable of capturing short attention spans with caustic remarks that contain nothing of substance and certainly provide no answers to anything, then may Trump is one. But you and I both know, that Moses, Gideon, Sampson, David, and Jesus are far more fit to be described as warrior males, and Trump isn't fit to untie their sandals.
 
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Sirk

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#57
Are you kidding me, Sirk? Really? The opening paragraph ...

"In 1987, I published the first book in the field of Human Paleopsychology. This approach is premised on two basic assumptions: First, human beings have an ancient and rich evolutionary history, and second, that ancient history is thoroughly involved in everything we feel, think and do personally, politically and morally. According to famed neuroscientist Paul MacLean, the human brain is composed of a primeval reptilian segment at the lowest level, a mammalian segment at mid-level and a human or neocortical segment at the highest level. I added the notion that we human beings are constantly “regressing down” or “progressing up” MacLean’s triune brain system in the natural flow of behavior."

As a Christian, I have to reject any concept of anyone based on an evolutionary model. As a Christian, so should you. Donald Trump, a "warrior male"? If a "warrior male" is a loud-mouth imbecile capable of capturing short attention spans with caustic remarks that contain nothing of substance and certainly provide no answers to anything, then may Trump is one. But you and I both know, that Moses, Gideon, Sampson, David, and Jesus are far more fit to be described as warrior males, and Trump isn't fit to untie their sandals.
So do you deny that men in the United States have become passive on a pretty large scale?
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#58
So do you deny that men in the United States have become passive on a pretty large scale?
It depends on what men you're talking about.

If you mean the liberal sociopolitically-conscious Obama sycophants, not doubt.

If you mean the conservative Christian male of any ethnicity, absolutely not.

I believe the former greatly outnumbers the latter. I think Christian writers who are bemoaning the "disappearance" of the true warrior male in print and online aren't aware of reality.

You want a warrior male? I give you Ben Carson. I give you Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke. I give you former U.S. Army Colonel and former U.S. Congressman Alan West. I give you former U.S. Navy SEAL Robert O'Neill. I give you the late U.S. Navy SEAL Chris Kyle. I give you every U.S. male police officer, deputy sheriff, federal and military law enforcement officer, every combat veteran still living and breathing, every U.S. male firefighter who runs into the burning building while everyone else is running away, every man who carries him/herself with humility, pride, and love for his country, his family, his duty, and his God.

Not to slight any woman of the same stripe, acknowledging there
are definitely warrior females with the same ideals. but we're talking about the warrior male

And you want to give me Donald Trump?

 
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Sirk

Guest
#59
It depends on what men you're talking about.

If you mean the liberal sociopolitically-conscious Obama sycophants, not doubt.

If you mean the conservative Christian male of any ethnicity, absolutely not.

I believe the former greatly outnumbers the latter. I think Christian writers who are bemoaning the "disappearance" of the true warrior male in print and online aren't aware of reality.

You want a warrior male? I give you Ben Carson. I give you Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke. I give you former U.S. Army Colonel and former U.S. Congressman Alan West. I give you former U.S. Navy SEAL Robert O'Neill. I give you the late U.S. Navy SEAL Chris Kyle. I give you every U.S. male police officer, deputy sheriff, federal and military law enforcement officer, every combat veteran still living and breathing, every U.S. male firefighter who runs into the burning building while everyone else is running away, every man who carries him/herself with humility, pride, and love for his country, his family, his duty, and his God.

Not to slight any woman of the same stripe, acknowledging there
are definitely warrior females with the same ideals. but we're talking about the warrior male

And you want to give me Donald Trump?

You can't deny that Donald is saying things and actually being heard. While I don't disagree with your examples of "manly men" it seems that The Donald is blazing the trail and shredding this Orwellian newspeak we've been abused with for far too long.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

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#60
You can't deny that Donald is saying things and actually being heard.
The word "things" being the key word. He's saying "things." He isn't offering solutions, and when pressed for answers, he has none.

While I don't disagree with your examples of "manly men" it seems that The Donald is blazing the trail and shredding this Orwellian newspeak we've been abused with for far too long.
Maybe so. That still isn't leadership. It's editorializing, and not very good editorializing at that. If you want an editorial, read Charles Krauthammer. He's smarter and says it better. If you want a leader rather than a bankrupt casino owner with a showman's knack for self-promotion, you look at anyone other than Donald Trump.