And you like Mitspa refuse to listen or even read what I write.
The issue is simple. You don't believe man is born in sin, even though Scripture states that he is. You don't believe man is born sinful, even though Scripture states that he is. You don't believe man is born selfish, even though Scripture states that he is. You don't believe man is born a rebel, even though Scripture states that he is.
Scripture states that children are to be corrected and taught the truth. Why? Because man is inherently evil. We are born with original sin. What you fail to realize is that we are also born unique. We each have our own personalities and our own wants and desires. These are not instilled by experience purely. Not everyone is tempted to homosexuality. Not everyone is tempted to murder or steal or mutilate people. SOME PEOPLE ARE. Some people have a really bad temper that has always been with them. Some people are born without emotions or the ability to empathize with others. One is a true murderer at heart while the other is a liar and manipulative. Why? Because their sinful natures manifested within their unique personality and proclivities. Homosexual desire is exactly that. It is the equivalent of a murderous temper. It is the equivalent of sociopathy. It is the equivalent of selfishness. It is the equivalent of a self-destructive nature. Some people are born gay, because that is part of their SINFUL NATURE, their FALLEN FLESH, their EVIL DESIRES.
You think that negates responsiblity. It would, if God had not told us that we must REJECT SIN, CONTROL OUR FLESH, and REBUKE OUR DESIRES! You see, God already acknowledges that we are responsible for our own actions and thoughts. God doesn't accept "But I was born sinful."
That's your argument, you know. You say that if one is born a certain way, they don't have a responsiblity. GUESS WHAT?! They do. They are responsible. Because WE ARE BORN SINFUL IN NATURE. WE ARE BORN SELFISH AND REBELLIOUS. God doesn't say, "That's okay, you were born that way." Nope, He says, "You are responsible and must repent."
Its truly sad that in your cause to uphold Scriptures teaching that homosexuality is wrong that you ignore Scriptures that teach that we are born sinful.
I know what youre preaching here, and I do not accept the sin nature doctrine. I do not believe men are born as sinners. They are born into sin, they are born into a world of sin and temptation (which exists because men make the world for themselves), and God knows that every one of them will at some point give into it. Its not a genetic nature, its a personal choice. I believe man is born into sin, but I dont believe he is created into temptation, but rather, when tempted, every single man will give into it, and fill their hearts with their own evil desires, and follow the path of the world. I dont blame those words, "born into sin", and change it to fit my own doctrine, I take responsibility for doing what I know was wrong, merely because it felt good to me at the time.
God says He knows we will go out into the world and follow our desires, and because of that we are sinners. But He never said we are created sinners. God says Himself, He forms us in the womb. If we take what David has written (Psalms 51:5), which many Christians use as defense to the "were born as sinners" doctrine, and instead of looking at it as Divine revelation, and looking at it as what it is, his confession of guilt for his sins to God, we can look at the verse for what it really is. David crying out His confession to God for doing wrong. He did not charge God with sin, David knows just like we all do that God has formed us in the womb. David didnt sin because God created him in sin, he sinned because he gave into temptation. And in Psalm 58:3, where David says the wicked go out from the womb and lie. David does not literally tell us that babies go out lying the moment they are born. It is not a literal verse. Every man chases after their own desires, and they defile themselves for doing so, but its not due to the way they are created. Its all due to their own personal choices.
David did not charge God with being created in sin. In Psalms 119:73 it is written "Youre hands have made me", if we take the verse of being born sinful as a literal statement, this would apply to the teachings that God did create us in the womb. In Psalm 139:13, David writes that God did create him in his mothers womb. If you take the statement written in Psalms 51:5 literally, and not as David admitting his failures to God, then we must apply them to these verses literally as well. David says he was concieved in sin. David writes that God formed him in the womb. Therefore, God willingly formed David as a sinner.
God knows were "sinners from the womb" because He sees all, He tells us He saw the end before the beginning. God saw that everyone of us would walk away into our own desires, and that we would all act out on wickedness. God is telling us that we are all evil do-ers, He is not blaming our formation in the womb as the culprit, He is telling us that He calls us sinful from the womb because we will all go out and do wicked things.
And yeah, thats my point. Everyone is tempted. But temptation is only temptation. If I come and tempt you, is that proof that you were born a sinner? Of course not : p It only means I came to tempt you, and you now have to make the choice to do right.
Christ was born into temptation too. But, He did not make the personal choice to sin. He instead lived a righteous life. He was formed in the womb, just like you and I. Why would he not have this sin nature? Instead of trying to apply those words to the science of man, think about the words themselves. It is not that men are born naturally to sin, its that all men will sin, it is their nature to do what they want, even when its wrong. That doesnt mean they are literally made that way, its their nature because they all choose to give into their temptations, and they all choose to do wrong, even when they know its wrong. They choose to make it their nature, they were not created as sinners.
God tells us He is faithful that we can do the right thing. Why would he have faith if we were born as sinners, and not that we just made the choice to sin ourselves?
