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V
An actual threat to the mother's life in delivery is less than one-tenth of 1% and constantly dropping. My wife is a NICU nurse. I know the facts.
While rape and incest are a very different issue, there are a multitude of historic figures who were unfortunately conceived in that or a similar circumstance, and if they had been aborted, would not have made the contributions they made.
While rape and incest are a very different issue, there are a multitude of historic figures who were unfortunately conceived in that or a similar circumstance, and if they had been aborted, would not have made the contributions they made.
V
So it's OK to kill a living human because conception was not a willing choice? Your argument fails because conception does not occur immediately following intercourse, pregnancy can be eliminated in all rape cases if the rape victim receives immediate medical treatment by having all the male semen removed from her uterus. This is not the death of an innocent life, but a valid measure to prevent an unwanted pregnancy as the result of an ugly attack on a woman.
Education of young women, before they face such a traumatizing event, is absolutely necessary for their own future peace of mind, as well as the defense of an innocent life, because psychological research proves that women who have abortions for whatever reason are more than five times likely to suffer depression, anxiety, and low self-esteem, as well as seven times more likely to develop cervical cancer and other reproductive issues.
Education of young women, before they face such a traumatizing event, is absolutely necessary for their own future peace of mind, as well as the defense of an innocent life, because psychological research proves that women who have abortions for whatever reason are more than five times likely to suffer depression, anxiety, and low self-esteem, as well as seven times more likely to develop cervical cancer and other reproductive issues.
L
The fact that the Bible describe something bad or evil does not mean it condones it.
You are true though that those who are called in the Bible had been filthy sinners. However, since Jesus has shown to us to live godly and sinless life, we can learn solely from Jesus, the one and only perfect example.
You are true though that those who are called in the Bible had been filthy sinners. However, since Jesus has shown to us to live godly and sinless life, we can learn solely from Jesus, the one and only perfect example.
I advocate a raped girl having freedom of choice about whether she does or doesn't report it and whether she does or doesn't have an abortion, and I firmly believe that legally and morally those two freedoms ought to be her right, without having judgement and vitriol spewed at her. It can't be an easy decision for any girl or woman, particularly for a young girl who's suffered sexual abuse. I don't like abortion any more than anybody else, but displaying hatred towards it without having any tact, well, that always manages to spill over into hatred for the girl; it's not her fault she was raped, Vigilant. It's not my place to hate her, nor is it my place to make her decision for her. She wants my advice? Abortion's ugly, and she'll probably regret it, but beyond that, it's a decision that's out of my league an a decision that if ever a partner or friend of mine was faced with, I would support any route she chooses to take.
We both know you're more intellectually honest than strawmen, come on.
We both know you're more intellectually honest than strawmen, come on.
V
What about the right of the child to life?
He/She has as much right to his/her life as does the mother to be free of the trauma of sexual assault. Probably more.
But if the girl will face up to her reality, that she has been violated and her attacker should be brought to justice, then she does not have to face that trauma, and the child's right to life is never violated. Time is of the essence in providing her that justice. The wait makes chances of that justice being meted out more slim than the perpetrator deserves.
Why that is so hard for you to admit must have a great deal to do with why you hang here without ever being affected to the point of conversion. The truth therein is that you do not give the child his/her due, which essentially means you do not give God His.
I would urge you to change that.
He/She has as much right to his/her life as does the mother to be free of the trauma of sexual assault. Probably more.
But if the girl will face up to her reality, that she has been violated and her attacker should be brought to justice, then she does not have to face that trauma, and the child's right to life is never violated. Time is of the essence in providing her that justice. The wait makes chances of that justice being meted out more slim than the perpetrator deserves.
Why that is so hard for you to admit must have a great deal to do with why you hang here without ever being affected to the point of conversion. The truth therein is that you do not give the child his/her due, which essentially means you do not give God His.
I would urge you to change that.
That's a lot of assumptions to make in one paragraph. I value the child's life just the same as any other outsider, hence why, when faced with the question "Omni, what should I, as a raped woman, do about this pregnancy", I would, like any compassionate human being, first hug the woman, then sit down to make a cup of tea for her, then ask her how she feels. I'd talk to her. I'd mirror her emotions, which I'm sure include the clear and present realization that although she's been violated, an innocent human life is growing inside her womb. Of course it isn't the child's fault; she knows that, I know that, and you know that.
What I worry you don't understand is the conflicting emotions and severe psychological trauma that this woman would be going through. Here she is, knowing all about her own life, about her own chidhood, about her own maternal instinct, about the obvious fact that this child has done nothing wrong, yet at the same time reliving the memory of being raped every time she thinks about the child, reliving the sense of total powerlessness she felt when he attacked her, every time she feels that child move or comprehends that this rapist's genes are melding together with her own and forming a genetically similar human being to her own rapist -- inside her belly. Can you, even for a moment, imagine the immense sense of powerlessness that you might feel in her shoes?
This child, a beautiful little baby, an innocent, pure, unwitting little life that is the genetic furtherance of a dirty, vile, rapist. They are the same species; the child, and the rapist. They are the same lineage. Heck, the child might even have his eyes, his nose. Imagine the emotion. Imagine it. The genetic essence of a horrible human being, parasitically attached to her like the rapist himself. But it's just a child, of course, she'll think. It's an innocent baby.
That is total inner turmoil. I can't imagine a feeling more helpless and powerless than that. And then to be told by society, friends and family "you have absolutely no choice, you're giving birth to this baby". Imagine it. The fear of labour alone sends most women to tears. Imagine that in a woman who doesn't know what choice to make or how to deal, an't get over her mixed feelings, is unsure she can ever love the child. She probably wants to, but it's extraordinarily difficult to deal with.
And the child himself (or herself), his mother feels him in her womb. Imagines him sleeping peacefully in her belly, warm, in a big cushy sack filled with fluid. Then the image of abortion. How can I do it? How can I have this kid? And how can I not?
I don't think anybody has a right to force anything on such a woman. She's been through enough. She deserves time to think, to feel, to sort it out in her own head; to talk, to let it out. She deserves to experience all of that with somebody there to support her, whom she knows will keep doing so nomatter what decision she makes.
And with a friend like that? Chances are, in the end, she'll keep the child, Vigilant. But you start forcing women in such a horrible position into a corner and it's to be expected that, much like a wounded animal, they're gonna strongly oppose you in it; fiercely so.
What I worry you don't understand is the conflicting emotions and severe psychological trauma that this woman would be going through. Here she is, knowing all about her own life, about her own chidhood, about her own maternal instinct, about the obvious fact that this child has done nothing wrong, yet at the same time reliving the memory of being raped every time she thinks about the child, reliving the sense of total powerlessness she felt when he attacked her, every time she feels that child move or comprehends that this rapist's genes are melding together with her own and forming a genetically similar human being to her own rapist -- inside her belly. Can you, even for a moment, imagine the immense sense of powerlessness that you might feel in her shoes?
This child, a beautiful little baby, an innocent, pure, unwitting little life that is the genetic furtherance of a dirty, vile, rapist. They are the same species; the child, and the rapist. They are the same lineage. Heck, the child might even have his eyes, his nose. Imagine the emotion. Imagine it. The genetic essence of a horrible human being, parasitically attached to her like the rapist himself. But it's just a child, of course, she'll think. It's an innocent baby.
That is total inner turmoil. I can't imagine a feeling more helpless and powerless than that. And then to be told by society, friends and family "you have absolutely no choice, you're giving birth to this baby". Imagine it. The fear of labour alone sends most women to tears. Imagine that in a woman who doesn't know what choice to make or how to deal, an't get over her mixed feelings, is unsure she can ever love the child. She probably wants to, but it's extraordinarily difficult to deal with.
And the child himself (or herself), his mother feels him in her womb. Imagines him sleeping peacefully in her belly, warm, in a big cushy sack filled with fluid. Then the image of abortion. How can I do it? How can I have this kid? And how can I not?
I don't think anybody has a right to force anything on such a woman. She's been through enough. She deserves time to think, to feel, to sort it out in her own head; to talk, to let it out. She deserves to experience all of that with somebody there to support her, whom she knows will keep doing so nomatter what decision she makes.
And with a friend like that? Chances are, in the end, she'll keep the child, Vigilant. But you start forcing women in such a horrible position into a corner and it's to be expected that, much like a wounded animal, they're gonna strongly oppose you in it; fiercely so.
I have no issue with your wife's statsitics, im sure they are right, but for that small percentage why can't abortion be an option?
On to your second point about good people coming from rape and such...Im sure an equal number of terrible people did as well, so you areat best 50-50 there. Obviously though there isnt a feel good story from the terrible ones. And no one is making rape victims have abortions, just providing the option.
only roughly 20% are reported. So due to a girls unwillingness or shame about coming forward immediately they get stuck carrying something they never even dreamed of for 9 months? still kind of ridiculous. I mean they've already been raped, lets not add on the social stigma that comes with being a single pregnant woman on top of it.
