Terry O'Neill - NOW

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Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
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48
#2
Even as someone who is on the fence about abortion this is ridiculous. That woman is an idiot.
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#3
Yea, I mean, memes are often satirized or reduced versions of real life events, so I wouldn't trust that this is exactly what she said or how she said it, but if it is, then she's an idiot.

Abortion is ugly. It's ugly for the doctor performing the procedure and it's ugly for the woman undergoing the procedure and it's infinitely more ugly for the child. I don't like it. I don't feel like it's a nice thing, I don't take it lightly. In fact, I despise it. I despise it because it is painful, and it is gruesome, and it is very, very sad and unsettling.

Should any woman ever come to me and ask me "do you think I should get an abortion?", my answer would almost invariably be "no, I don't". The only time I would ever say to a woman, "perhaps you should", is if her own live is inescapably in immediate and definite danger. However, even though I would practically never advise a woman to get an abortion unless she might die if she remains pregnant, I don't believe in legally banning it completely. I can be against it morally, for the most part, yet still understand why in certain circumstances it might be necessary to facilitate.

I don't like it, I don't believe in abortion on demand, like "let's have fun unprotected sex and kill a child 18 weeks later", but I do think abortion should be legal in certain circumstances, because I know what the alternative is. Totally banning abortion does not stop abortion from happening. Women, all over the world, do not simply stop having abortions because abortion is banned in their home countries. What happens is that they either go abroad for the procedure, or they have the procedure done in some dirty back alley, on cheap drugs, with cheap equipment, by unqualified practitioners, at sometimes very serious financial and physical cost. Many die.

The gestational period at which I believe abortion becomes very difficult, which is around about 10 weeks, is when cells have differentiated enough that brains and nerves start to form and the baby's sexual development begins. After this period, abortion should not be given unless under very strict circumstances, because there is a chance -- though small, but a chance nonetheless -- that the child will feel pain during the procedure. Abortion in such a circumstance might be available only as a last resort scenario in cases like rape, child sex abuse, or if their is an immediate danger to the woman's life, but other than that, I think to have an abortion at that stage is just irresponsible and cruel. And as for people who have been raped or abused, there still must be an upper cut-off limit, which I can't justify being any more than about 16 weeks, which is when the child's brain has formed to the point of no return: he or she will likely be able to feel some level of pain if not anesthetized. That's another stipulation I believe in -- the child should be anesthetized.

I know this seems a bit contradictory, a bit paradoxical, a guy who morally hates abortion but is pro choice, but really, in cases like rape or child abuse, like for instance some 14 year old girl gets pregnant because her uncle abused her, I don't think there's any possible way to make a "right call" in a situation like that. It's totally beyond wrong already, that someone has to even make such a horrible decision. I don't think I could do that, and I've gotta give my support to anybody in that position, whichever decision they make and whichever option they choose.

It can't be easy.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#4
Is this good enough for you, Omni? THis was a guest editorial on May 13 this year, penned by O'Neill:

Abortion, Like Contraception, Is Essential Health Care That Saves Lives

From a public health point of view, abortion care, no less than contraception, is an essential measure to prevent the heartbreak of infant mortality, and to prevent another tragedy as well -- maternal death.
Disgusting. And the quote is 100% accurate.
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#5
Is this good enough for you, Omni? THis was a guest editorial on May 13 this year, penned by O'Neill:

Disgusting. And the quote is 100% accurate.
As I said, I don't agree with the woman in the first post, Vigilant. You should read my view before you equate it with someone else's. As for what you've posted, abortion is sometimes necessary to prevent maternal death. We all have survival instincts, and I imagine any woman who has to choose between her own life and her child's life has got a very difficult decision to make. Do you think she shouldn't have any choice in such a case?

May I remind you of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

Savita Halappanavar was admitted to hospital suffering from a miscarriage, in pain. The doctor's told her "Ireland is a Catholic country" and "abortion is illegal". Both her and her child died in hospital.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#6
As I said, I don't agree with the woman in the first post, Vigilant.
Yes, you did say that ...

... with this qualifier:

... so I wouldn't trust that this is exactly what she said or how she said it ...
I'm simply pointing out, you can remove your qualifier. She is, indeed, an idiot.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
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#7
Even as someone who is on the fence about abortion this is ridiculous. That woman is an idiot.
I have a better word...WITCH.

And I have some choice words for those up in Congress who keep kicking the PP can down the road...but I'd get banned.
(I know, I know trust the Lord...but still this issue blisters me).

[h=1]Abortion, Like Contraception, Is Essential Health Care That Saves Lives[/h]
This is something taken straight out of George Orwell's 1984 !!!
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#9
My bad. Thanks for that.
No problem.


I don't know that you did this, but sometimes, when I write a lengthy post, I forget what I said, early on. :cool:
 
L

leonardronaldo

Guest
#10
Yea, I mean, memes are often satirized or reduced versions of real life events, so I wouldn't trust that this is exactly what she said or how she said it, but if it is, then she's an idiot.

Abortion is ugly. It's ugly for the doctor performing the procedure and it's ugly for the woman undergoing the procedure and it's infinitely more ugly for the child. I don't like it. I don't feel like it's a nice thing, I don't take it lightly. In fact, I despise it. I despise it because it is painful, and it is gruesome, and it is very, very sad and unsettling.

Should any woman ever come to me and ask me "do you think I should get an abortion?", my answer would almost invariably be "no, I don't". The only time I would ever say to a woman, "perhaps you should", is if her own live is inescapably in immediate and definite danger. However, even though I would practically never advise a woman to get an abortion unless she might die if she remains pregnant, I don't believe in legally banning it completely. I can be against it morally, for the most part, yet still understand why in certain circumstances it might be necessary to facilitate.

I don't like it, I don't believe in abortion on demand, like "let's have fun unprotected sex and kill a child 18 weeks later", but I do think abortion should be legal in certain circumstances, because I know what the alternative is. Totally banning abortion does not stop abortion from happening. Women, all over the world, do not simply stop having abortions because abortion is banned in their home countries. What happens is that they either go abroad for the procedure, or they have the procedure done in some dirty back alley, on cheap drugs, with cheap equipment, by unqualified practitioners, at sometimes very serious financial and physical cost. Many die.

The gestational period at which I believe abortion becomes very difficult, which is around about 10 weeks, is when cells have differentiated enough that brains and nerves start to form and the baby's sexual development begins. After this period, abortion should not be given unless under very strict circumstances, because there is a chance -- though small, but a chance nonetheless -- that the child will feel pain during the procedure. Abortion in such a circumstance might be available only as a last resort scenario in cases like rape, child sex abuse, or if their is an immediate danger to the woman's life, but other than that, I think to have an abortion at that stage is just irresponsible and cruel. And as for people who have been raped or abused, there still must be an upper cut-off limit, which I can't justify being any more than about 16 weeks, which is when the child's brain has formed to the point of no return: he or she will likely be able to feel some level of pain if not anesthetized. That's another stipulation I believe in -- the child should be anesthetized.

I know this seems a bit contradictory, a bit paradoxical, a guy who morally hates abortion but is pro choice, but really, in cases like rape or child abuse, like for instance some 14 year old girl gets pregnant because her uncle abused her, I don't think there's any possible way to make a "right call" in a situation like that. It's totally beyond wrong already, that someone has to even make such a horrible decision. I don't think I could do that, and I've gotta give my support to anybody in that position, whichever decision they make and whichever option they choose.

It can't be easy.
Simple question will be asked by the baby of rape victim (if he/she is given a 'choice' or 'chance to ask'):

If my 'father' was the one guilty of raping, why should I die for his crime?

-------------
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#11
Simple question will be asked by the baby of rape victim (if he/she is given a 'choice' or 'chance to ask'):

If my 'father' was the one guilty of raping, why should I die for his crime?

-------------
Is forcing a woman to give birth to a rapist's child better than letting her make her own choice? If so, what age do you draw the line? Should an 18 year old woman to be forced to give birth to a rapist's child? What about a 15 year old? 13 year old?

No. Forcing a victim to go through that is far, far worse than allowing her to make her own decision.
 
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PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,821
8,596
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#12
Is forcing a woman to give birth to a rapist's child better than letting her make her own choice? If so, what age do you draw the line? Should an 18 year old woman to be forced to give birth to a rapist's child? What about a 15 year old? 13 year old?

No. Forcing a victim to go through that is far, far worse than allowing her to make her own decision.
Always the wrong questions are posed by those who rationalize murder.

The pertinent questions are : Is the baby a human being?

Question 1 can be answered by by the answer to question 2. Does a fetus gain any additional DNA, which declares it fully human, AFTER conception?

If your'e answer to question 2 is no, then you are rationalizing the murder of human beings.
 
Aug 12, 2015
539
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#13
Always the wrong questions are posed by those who rationalize murder.

The pertinent questions are : Is the baby a human being?

Question 1 can be answered by by the answer to question 2. Does a fetus gain any additional DNA, which declares it fully human, AFTER conception?

If your'e answer to question 2 is no, then you are rationalizing the murder of human beings.
To you, I might be doing exactly that, PennEd -- rationalizing the murder of human beings. I'm willing to support laws that allow raped women a choice, even if it means being seen in the light you've cast me in. I'm willing to support laws that allow raped women to abort if that's what they want, even if it means you calling me a baby-killer. The question is: are you willing to force raped women to bear those children? Are you willing to force 13 year old sex abuse victims to carry uncle Frank's baby to term? Because at the end of the day, that's what the practical outcome of banning all abortion without exception is.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#14
Is forcing a woman to give birth to a rapist's child better than letting her make her own choice? If so, what age do you draw the line? Should an 18 year old woman to be forced to give birth to a rapist's child? What about a 15 year old? 13 year old?

No. Forcing a victim to go through that is far, far worse than allowing her to make her own decision.
adoption is far better than murdering the baby.
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#15
adoption is far better than murdering the baby.
You are making vague, avoidant statements that don't address the practical implications and immediate realities of this issue. That something is "better" or "worse" doesn't tell me your view on the legality of abortion. It only tells me what I already myself believe -- yes, adoption is preferable to abortion. But moral preference isn't synonymous with legal principle. So I'd like to see a concrete yes or no on this point, from anyone: do you believe that it should be illegal for a thirteen year old child sex abuse victim to terminate her pregnancy?
 
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Jun 23, 2015
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#16
America has a extreme sexual immorality that is destroying society. I believe society, churches, families and government need to deal with disease or cancer. Sexual abusers should be imprison for life and should become an eunuch by law. This sexual immorality is through out the nations because of the internet, television, dirty magazines, brothels, dirty movies and the seed of immorality in ones mind. This sickness effects those within the church just as the world that is why the church must be transparent, accountable, and honest about ones sickness. I know I went around the world to answer your question!

First, I will seek guidance from ABBA pray through Holy Spirit and search my soul. Do I desire for my child to carry a seed of the devil because that seed was force abound her. The answer is no. Now folks in this room will judge me, but I am honest. Most folks in this room may feel the same way, but is afraid to be direct. The true is that there as been Christian women who had gotten an abortion. The truth is that Christians do not desire to tell their dark secrets because it is difficult to show or tell the world in darkness that they have same problems. We read the Word of God NO ONE was perfect accept ONE, but that was GOD in the FLESH! Even those who GOD has called to be front runners were the following: murder, adulterer, liar, thief, drunkard, sexual immorality, deceiver, and schemes. Even in the Word the was a rape! I be honest once more because my uncle tried to rape me as a child at the age of six, and ABBA saved me. My uncle to this day think I have forgotten! I THINK NOT!! He was a demon then and he is still a demon!!

2 Samuel 13

Amnon Rapes Tamar

13 Some time passed. David’s son Absalom had a beautiful sister named Tamar, and David’s son Amnon was infatuated with her. 2 Amnon was frustrated to the point of making himself sick over his sister Tamar because she was a virgin, but it seemed impossible to do anything to her. 3 Amnon had a friend named Jonadab, a son of David’s brother Shimeah. Jonadab was a very shrewd man, 4 and he asked Amnon, “Why are you, the king’s son, so miserable every morning? Won’t you tell me?”
Amnon replied, “I’m in love with Tamar, my brother Absalom’s sister.”

Lets skip down to the below verses!


8 Then Tamar went to his house while Amnon was lying down. She took dough, kneaded it, made cakes in his presence, and baked them. 9 She brought the pan and set it down in front of him, but he refused to eat. Amnon said, “Everyone leave me!” And everyone left him. 10 “Bring the meal to the bedroom,” Amnon told Tamar, “so I can eat from your hand.” Tamar took the cakes she had made and went to her brother Amnon’s bedroom. 11 When she brought them to him to eat, he grabbed her and said,[a] “Come sleep with me, my sister!”
12 “Don’t, my brother!” she cried. “Don’t humiliate me, for such a thing should never be done in Israel. Don’t do this horrible thing! 13 Where could I ever go with my disgrace? And you—you would be like one of the immoral men in Israel! Please, speak to the king, for he won’t keep me from you.” 14 But he refused to listen to her, and because he was stronger than she was, he raped her.

15 After this, Amnon hated Tamar with such intensity that the hatred he hated her with was greater than the love he had loved her with. “Get out of here!” he said.


16 “No,” she cried,[b] “sending me away is much worse than the great wrong you’ve already done to me!” But he refused to listen to her. 17 Instead, he called to the servant who waited on him: “Throw this woman out and bolt the door behind her!” 18 Amnon’s servant threw her out and bolted the door behind her. Now Tamar was wearing a long-sleeved[c] garment, because this is what the king’s virgin daughters wore. 19 Tamar put ashes on her head and tore the long-sleeved garment she was wearing. She put her hand on her head and went away crying out.

20 Her brother Absalom said to her: “Has your brother Amnon been with you? Be quiet for now, my sister. He is your brother. Don’t take this thing to heart.” So Tamar lived as a desolate woman in the house of her brother Absalom.

She had to live with her shame in SILENCE! Guess what it was the SEED of the her father! Who was her father, King David because of his sexual immorality was past on this his son. I feel very strongly about this subject. If anyone has a comment please respond with RESPECT. Many people have been abused sexuality including men.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#17
You are making vague, avoidant statements that don't address the practical implications and immediate realities of this issue. That something is "better" or "worse" doesn't tell me your view on the legality of abortion. It only tells me what I already myself believe -- yes, adoption is preferable to abortion. But moral preference isn't synonymous with legal principle. So I'd like to see a concrete yes or no on this point, from anyone: do you believe that it should be illegal for a thirteen year old child sex abuse victim to terminate her pregnancy?
so in turn you bring in to the legal issue an emotional element as well as introduce an exceptional type case.
We can't sculpture our laws based on emotion and exceptions. It shoud be illegal...and then let a judge apply mercy in exceptional cases.
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#18
so in turn you bring in to the legal issue an emotional element as well as introduce an exceptional type case.
We can't sculpture our laws based on emotion and exceptions. It shoud be illegal...and then let a judge apply mercy in exceptional cases.
Why act like there isn't an emotional element? Is abortion somehow divorced, unlike every other human phenomenon, from human emotions? We create laws to uphold freedoms, genius. Like the freedom not to be raped at the age of twelve and forced into giving birth to a rapist child molester's kid. Also, Crossnote, child abuse is not "exceptional", it's extremely common. Roughly 10% of adult women, in all Western countries who compile sex abuse statistics, report experiencing some form of childhood sexual abuse, and around 5% of adult men report the same.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
#19
Why act like there isn't an emotional element? Is abortion somehow divorced, unlike every other human phenomenon, from human emotions? We create laws to uphold freedoms, genius. Like the freedom not to be raped at the age of twelve and forced into giving birth to a rapist child molester's kid. Also, Crossnote, child abuse is not "exceptional", it's extremely common. Roughly 10% of adult women, in all Western countries who compile sex abuse statistics, report experiencing some form of childhood sexual abuse, and around 5% of adult men report the same.
Again, emotion is not the basis of law...that's how gay marriage passed..."well, they loooved each other".
God said nope, but emotion triumphed.
The same tactic was used with legalizing abortion.."Well, we can't have back alley abortions using a coat hanger and all".
Nope, God's law said youshall not murder.
So as I said, it should be illegal and let the judge ferret out the extenuating circumstances mixing in mercy.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#20
While I have no problem banning abortion from cases where oh "I just like to party and forgot to use a condom" I do have an issue with banning it from cases like rape, incest, or potential death of the mother.