Pope Suggests Trump Is Not Christian

[PoetMary]

Mary, you did not address the hypocrisy of Jorge saying "who am I to judge someone", while talking about homosexuals, yet judging this man as not christian for wanting to build a wall.

How on earth can you reconcile this hypocrisy in your own mind? As an ex-catholic I'd really like to know.

I don't see it as an hypocrisy, and here's why:

Here is the statement Pope Francis said about homosexuals: “If someone is gay and searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?”

I agree with his statement. It's impossible to judge an entire group. Some people identify as homosexuals, are "loud and proud," proclaim they'd "rather reign in hell than serve in heaven" and don't give a rip about God. Others identify as homosexuals because they have same sex attraction. They don't act on this attraction and they earnestly seek God and live submitted lives to God. If even *I* can see the clear distinctions between these two groups, surely God can too. I've made previous posts about a friend I have who sought God FOR YEARS AND YEARS before He ever began to address her sexuality. She was EXACTLY the sort of person Pope Francis is referencing.

So, to summarize, Pope Francis declines to judge an entire group collectively. Instead, he admits that if someone is gay AND PURSUING GOD, that God will deal with that person in His own timing.

Here's what the Pope said about Trump: “A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian,” Francis said when a reporter asked him about Mr. Trump

Now, Trump is NOT A GROUP. Trump is an individual. He looked at Trump's behavior and made an assessment. Is it possible that his assessment could be wrong or a misread...sure. However, EVERYONE OF US assesses people based on their behavior. You need not LIKE his assessment, but I don't get why it's "hypocritical" of him to have one. Maybe you feel like it's wrong for him to present his assessment because He's in a position of power and authority. However, he was asked a question, and he answered it.

 

[KimPetras]

I'm not a big fan of Trump at all... in fact, I'd sooner hang out with the Pope than Trump, but I strongly disagree with the Pope here.

The US has immigration laws. They currently aren't enforcing the law of their land very well. A wall would help them in better complying with the laws of their land.

Furthermore, there is a "bridge". It's called, Coming Into the Country Legally Bridge.

 

[PennEd]

Simply incredible rationalization. Mary, you may not believe me, but I love you, and I have many relatives who remain catholic, so I'm pretty passionate about how truly un- Biblical catholicism is and that people should not follow a mere man, like Jorge is.

Here is a catholic who is a little honest about Jorge's hypocrisy:
[h=1]'El Papa' embraces Raul Castro but calls Donald Trump anti-Christian![/h]By Silvio Canto, Jr.


Last Sunday, Pope Francis was in Mexico visiting sick children in hospitals. It was amazing to watch himholding the little kids and praying with their mothers. As a Catholic, I was so proud of "El Papa."That was El Papa being El Papa, or the religious leader of my faith. He was reaching out to kids and their mothers and giving them some hope.
As he left Mexico, Pope Francis made a terrible mistake by saying that Donald Trump is not a Christian. I am not sure if he was answering a question or speaking at a meeting. He had finished a Masson the El Paso-Ciudad Juarez border.
First, El Papa should stay away from presidential elections, here, there, and everywhere.
Second, the Vatican is one gigantic place surrounded by walls.
Third, is a border now un-Christian? How did we get to the point that defending borders and promoting legal immigration is now inhumane?
Fourth, El Papa has given Mr. Trump a huge gift. I am not a Trump supporter, but I believe that the U.S. has every right to protect and defend its borders. I don't know whether building a wall from Laredo to San Diego is the best answer. However, it may work in some isolated regions currently used by cartels to bring drugs and people.
Last, but not least, El Papa just visited Cuba. He hugged and embraced Raúl Castro, a man who has executed priests, harassed religious leaders, and closed Christian schools years ago. Did he call the Castro brothers un-Christian?
Pope Francis is a good man, but he needs a few people around him to protect him from himself.

 

[KimPetras]

The pope should have kept his peace. He is not a politician,he is not American. He had not right to say anything about Trump or any other candidate running. I don't care who he was talking about,its not his business. And as a Christian I care even less about what the pope says. But I would feel the same way if a preacher said it. Out of line,totally.

I disagree with the Pope, but he had every right to answer however he feels. I don't believe in censorship. He doesn't need to be American, either, in order to formulate and express his opinion.

 

[KimPetras]

He is not American,it is none of his business. It is not his place to comment on an election and to say a person that he doesn't even know personally is not Christian. Again,I don't care who he said it about. And a man who allows people to kiss his hand and bow and scrape before him is a hypocrite to say anyone else is not a Christian. He ought to mind his own business.

Wow... just wow. Why does the Pope have to be an American for him to have and express an opinion?

If the Pope endorsed Trump, and said he would make American great again, would you be making the same case that the Pope "has no right" to comment because he "isn't American"?

Newsflash: The US is a world superpower. Almost every country in the world pays attention to who the next leader of of the US is going to be. Is everyone "not American" not entitled to hold an opinion, negative or positive, about a candidate?

 

[Elizabeth619]

Wow... just wow. Why does the Pope have to be an American for him to have and express an opinion?

If the Pope endorsed Trump, and said he would make American great again, would you be making the same case that the Pope "has no right" to comment because he "isn't American"?

Newsflash: The US is a world superpower. Almost every country in the world pays attention to who the next leader of of the US is going to be. Is everyone "not American" not entitled to hold an opinion, negative or positive, about a candidate?

It's not so much that he isn't American as what he said was biblically wrong. God doesn't speak against borders and securing areas. There was a wall around Jerusalem even.

 

[KimPetras]

It's not so much that he isn't American as what he said was biblically wrong. God doesn't speak against borders and securing areas. There was a wall around Jerusalem even.

That isn't all what the poster said though. It's about the Pope not having the right because he isn't American.

The Pope has the right to say and believe the earth is flat or that Trump is the evil villain alien that Scientology depicts. We can disagree with him, but to say he doesn't have a right to say/express his opinion is a bit extreme. As if Trump and the US political system is too sacred for anyone else to formulate and express an opinion.

 

[KimPetras]

What is really humorous is I've seen at least two posters (don't worry, I won't put you on blast) talk about how the Pope is a hypocrite for saying someone isn't really a Christian when I've, personally, read posts where they try to disenfranchise a fellow poster from being a Christian for having/stating a differing opinion.

If someone said I wasn't a Christian, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I'm confident that I'm a child of God, that Jesus died for my sins, and that the bible is the word of God. I think it's foolish to try to disenfranchise anyone of whatever it is they claim. God knows our hearts. That is all that is important.

 

[notuptome]

That isn't all what the poster said though. It's about the Pope not having the right because he isn't American.

The Pope has the right to say and believe the earth is flat or that Trump is the evil villain alien that Scientology depicts. We can disagree with him, but to say he doesn't have a right to say/express his opinion is a bit extreme. As if Trump and the US political system is too sacred for anyone else to formulate and express an opinion.

Wars have been started when outside forces interfere with internal politics of countries. If the pope commented about the N Korean leader he could place his own welfare in jeopardy.

The popes actions are unwise and very self serving for a man who claims just the opposite.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Elizabeth619]

What is really humorous is I've seen at least two posters (don't worry, I won't put you on blast) talk about how the Pope is a hypocrite for saying someone isn't really a Christian when I've, personally, read posts where they try to disenfranchise a fellow poster from being a Christian for having/stating a differing opinion.

If someone said I wasn't a Christian, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I'm confident that I'm a child of God, that Jesus died for my sins, and that the bible is the word of God. I think it's foolish to try to disenfranchise anyone of whatever it is they claim. God knows our hearts. That is all that is important.

Considering your religious status states "unsure" is why I asked.

 

[Elizabeth619]

And if you could give scripture to back up your claims instead of personal interpretation that may help a lot too.

 

[KimPetras]

Wars have been started when outside forces interfere with internal politics of countries. If the pope commented about the N Korean leader he could place his own welfare in jeopardy.

The popes actions are unwise and very self serving for a man who claims just the opposite.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

1.) If stating an opinion about a political candidate is "interfering with internal politics", then the entire world is interfering because we all have opinions and express them. Come visit Europe if you don't believe me.

2.) The US isn't North Korea. The US believes in freedom of speech, not just for Americans... it's a God given right. It's so tied to your country's belief system, they put freedom of speech as the 1st amendment of the Bill of Rights.

3.) The Pope's opinions, wrong or right, are irrelevant to him having the right to express them.

 

[KimPetras]

And if you could give scripture to back up your claims instead of personal interpretation that may help a lot too.

Was this for me? If so, which claims?

 

[KimPetras]

Considering your religious status states "unsure" is why I asked.

Thanks for informing me of that! I fixed it! lol

 

[PennEd]

I disagree with the Pope, but he had every right to answer however he feels. I don't believe in censorship. He doesn't need to be American, either, in order to formulate and express his opinion.

You don't believe in censorship? As the free world goes, your country is the king of censorship!
[h=2]The German government’s demand that social media giants Google, Facebook and Twitter remove what it calls anti-migrant ‘hate speech’ is having its first real test in the wake of the sickening sex attacks in Cologne over New Year’s Eve.[/h]Breitbart London first brought news of the attacks to the English speaking world and sparked a global tide of outrage in the process.
Anyone in Germany appalled by the scenes we described, however, will find it difficult to express their disgust online because it might be branded as hate speech by the Berlin political class that shows more concern for the reaction from Germans than for the threat to social order from the migrants themselves.
In a deal reached last December, major social media sites said they would work to delete any German anti-migrant sentiments distributed on their networks within 24 hours after a removal request has been made.
The outlets agreed to apply domestic laws, rather than their own corporate policies, to reviews of posts and already users in Germany are expressing disgust at the policy which came straight from German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s office.
Last September, Ms Merkel was overheard confronting Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg over the issue, with Mr Zuckerberg replying “we need to do some work” to remove offensive posts, Wired reported. He agreed to collude with the German leader on the issue.
As Breitbart News has reported, moderators on the link-sharing and discussion site Reddit have already deleted dozens of links and comments about immigrant gang violence after the Cologne sexual assaults in an apparent attempt to clamp down on “vileness.”
The deletions and restrictions have not gone unnoticed.
“It’s not politically correct to say anything against migrants. We don’t have freedom of opinion anymore. #Cologne,” Tweeted a German user from Hanover. See his Tweet below.
Stefan Körner, chairman of Germany’s liberal Pirate Party, agrees. He argues that democracies “must be able to bear” a measure of xenophobia. According to theWashington Post he condemned the government’s deal with social media outlets saying that “surely it will lead to too many rather than too few comments being blocked. This is creeping censorship, and we definitely don’t want that.”
These protests may be a case of too little, too late because free speech will not be so free in Germany in just six months time.
By mid-2016, Google, Facebook and Twitter will have to provide user-friendly mechanisms for the submission of removal requests. They will enforce their terms and conditions by reviewing specific reports of hateful content and incitement to violence under both their community guidelines, and German law, particularly Section 130 of the German criminal code.
When a removal request is received, dedicated teams at the companies have to review it. Most content must be reviewed within 24 hours and removed, if necessary.
The companies will be given access to German-speaking experts, if required, and they must have legal specialists on tap to provide any required legal analysis.
If that combined weight of the German government and social media platforms work together as they threaten, what we have seen and heard from Cologne will scarcely be commented on again inside Germany itself.
Which it appears is just the way Angela Merkel wants it.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Was this for me? If so, which claims?

Yes, sorry I was on my phone and hate quoting from that stupid machine lol

Any time you make a claim(not just for you, but anyone on the forum) It helps prove a point to where others may think your are speaking from your own point of view.

I actually am bad about posting scripture which I need to do more of. I can quote scripture like I said about "bearing the sword in vain" but that actual verse...cant remember. I was never blessed with a good memory.

Also, I am not trying to be ugly toward you. From your posts its obvious you are a very intelligent woman which is a great thing to see here on this site. I love that you talk about current events, especially with America and how those from other countries perceive us. Unfortunately(and this may just be me) it seems theres misinterpretation sometimes or you are showing more of your personal view than what the bible says. OF course everyone does have their own personal interpretation of scripture.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Thanks for informing me of that! I fixed it! lol

No problem.

 

[Elizabeth619]

1.) If stating an opinion about a political candidate is "interfering with internal politics", then the entire world is interfering because we all have opinions and express them. Come visit Europe if you don't believe me.

2.) The US isn't North Korea. The US believes in freedom of speech, not just for Americans... it's a God given right. It's so tied to your country's belief system, they put freedom of speech as the 1st amendment of the Bill of Rights.

3.) The Pope's opinions, wrong or right, are irrelevant to him having the right to express them.

Not many Americans realize that our "God given rights" apply to all. Some non-citizens may be limited for legal reasons but your rights are equal to mine.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Now, Trump is NOT A GROUP. Trump is an individual.

I see. It would be very easy to find a multitude of people who would agree to build that wall, a very large group that would likely exceed the homosexual population. As I see it, Francis did speak against a group of Americans sick of destructive, liberal idiocy, that wall not an invention of Trump, segments of it built already. Nice try, that GROUP in shouted letters angle of apologetics, when Francis opens mouth and inserts foot, but such sophistry remains within the pull of the gravity of hypocrisy. And I suppose it would be alright if Mr. Trump ripped into some homosexual individual, then, by your standards?

 

[kaylagrl]

Wow... just wow. Why does the Pope have to be an American for him to have and express an opinion?

If the Pope endorsed Trump, and said he would make American great again, would you be making the same case that the Pope "has no right" to comment because he "isn't American"?

Newsflash: The US is a world superpower. Almost every country in the world pays attention to who the next leader of of the US is going to be. Is everyone "not American" not entitled to hold an opinion, negative or positive, about a candidate?

He does not have a right to make a comment as to sway voters in an election. He has already backed off of what he has said. To be a religious leader and just a candidate as not Christian,and stepping into American politics and saying we shouldn't be building walls, sorry just wrong. And polls taken today taken says that both US citizens and Catholics agree a wall should be built.