The Story Not Told about Epipens

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Depleted

Guest
#1
Lately MSM has been giving Heather Bresch the CEO of Mylan a black eye for daring to sell lifesaving epipens for $700. These are the same people who tell us things like Chris Christie closed down the George Washington Bridge, the Republicans closed down Congress over having to give money for abortions, Trump is courting white supremacists groups because he used a six-pointed star in one of his tweets, Hillary didn't help kill an ambassador, she watched a Youtuber video, and she doesn't lie. Why should I be buying this story when I'm sure there's another side to this story we're NOT hearing?

Doubly interested since the ABC Nightly News did give her side of the story last night by sound biting an interview she gave that said something like, "Like I already explained, we're not doing that" sandwiched into a larger piece where they clearly said she was gouging.

So, I checked. Sure enough, it's not true. Mylan doesn't make $700 per pen. (And, in the link it says $600, but our local news has been saying $700 since this story "broke," so I'm going with that number.) They make $137.

And, Europe? You're welcome for getting your epipens cheaper. Apparently that's a gift from the pocketbooks of America.

Here's the rest of the story.

Mylan CEO Bresch: 'No one's more frustrated than me' about EpiPen price furor
 
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Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,312
1,039
113
#2
We have an affordable health bill which really isn't affordable.... no one seems to be going at the root of the problem which is Pharmaceutical companies financially raping America
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,036
1,473
113
#3
We have an affordable health bill which really isn't affordable.... no one seems to be going at the root of the problem which is Pharmaceutical companies financially raping America
No one seems to realize that the average American can not afford even basic healthcare. The poor of the country can receive Medicaid. Seniors can receive Medicare. Medicare costs each recipient $120+/mo plus 20% deductible and unless he participates in a prescription drug program at an extra cost, the cost of any medication. The average cost of supplemental insurance is around $300.00. Medicaid care is comprehensive, and free. Those in between either pay out of pocket, or if they are lucky enough to have an employer who provides insurance, they pay an exorbitant copay.

I believe that it is time for the US to join the rest of the free world and provide a single payer system for all citizens. This is the twenty-first century, It's time to move our healthcare provider system into it.
 
F

FlowersnJesus

Guest
#4
Like the first thing newspaper reporters are taught. When you not sure about the about the motive, look to sex, power and money. If your still not sure, follow the money.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
113
#5
No one seems to realize that the average American can not afford even basic healthcare. The poor of the country can receive Medicaid. Seniors can receive Medicare. Medicare costs each recipient $120+/mo plus 20% deductible and unless he participates in a prescription drug program at an extra cost, the cost of any medication. The average cost of supplemental insurance is around $300.00. Medicaid care is comprehensive, and free. Those in between either pay out of pocket, or if they are lucky enough to have an employer who provides insurance, they pay an exorbitant copay.

I believe that it is time for the US to join the rest of the free world and provide a single payer system for all citizens. This is the twenty-first century, It's time to move our healthcare provider system into it.
Who is going to pay for it?
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
113
#6
Apparently epipens are so expensive here cause we are subsidizing the rest of the world who has price controls.
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,917
1,589
113
47
#7
Yeah I was wary of the gouging angle when the story first broke.............

Because I've learned that few things rile up the average consumer more than allegations (whether true or not) of corporate malfeasance and greed. And the media knows it.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#8
Like the first thing newspaper reporters are taught. When you not sure about the about the motive, look to sex, power and money. If your still not sure, follow the money.
The first thing I was taught was find out the six basic questions: Who? What? Where? Why? When? How? And then get all those answers in the first paragraph.

Which journalism school taught you something else?
 
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Depleted

Guest
#9
No one seems to realize that the average American can not afford even basic healthcare. The poor of the country can receive Medicaid. Seniors can receive Medicare. Medicare costs each recipient $120+/mo plus 20% deductible and unless he participates in a prescription drug program at an extra cost, the cost of any medication. The average cost of supplemental insurance is around $300.00. Medicaid care is comprehensive, and free. Those in between either pay out of pocket, or if they are lucky enough to have an employer who provides insurance, they pay an exorbitant copay.

I believe that it is time for the US to join the rest of the free world and provide a single payer system for all citizens. This is the twenty-first century, It's time to move our healthcare provider system into it.
Have you not noticed? Every time the government helps us, it just costs more and we get less. Check out the VA and see how bad government run healthcare can get. Deadly is not the only part of the problem. It gets worse!
 
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Depleted

Guest
#10
We have an affordable health bill which really isn't affordable.... no one seems to be going at the root of the problem which is Pharmaceutical companies financially raping America
Obviously you didn't read the link. Not a surprise.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,036
1,473
113
#11
Who is going to pay for it?
Who pays for healthcare now? There were six emergency surgeries preformed on people with no income at a local hospital last Friday. Four of those would have been unnecessary had proper healthcare been provided. Who paid for those surgeries? The eleven other patients who had surgery that day. What about the three that died last week because they could not afford the routine healthcare.

Short answer. Everyone. What would the 3+ trillion dollars squandered on Iraq and the Middle East have paid for? Do you think that God would rather see us let our citizens suffer, while we spend more than half of our national income on war related interests?
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,036
1,473
113
#12
Have you not noticed? Every time the government helps us, it just costs more and we get less. Check out the VA and see how bad government run healthcare can get. Deadly is not the only part of the problem. It gets worse!
I'm glad that someone mentioned the VA healthcare program and the care that is provided.

We have taken a program that was put in place to determine if a disability was service connected and pay for the treatment of those service related disabilities, and made it a healthcare system for veterans. I fully support that. The problem is that rather than paying for veteran healthcare as we pay for retiree healthcare, we have decided to make it a government run hospital and clinic based system. Veteran healthcare would work fine if we did away with the clinics and hospitals, and paid for care in the same manor military retirees' care is paid for.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
113
#13
Who pays for healthcare now? There were six emergency surgeries preformed on people with no income at a local hospital last Friday. Four of those would have been unnecessary had proper healthcare been provided. Who paid for those surgeries? The eleven other patients who had surgery that day. What about the three that died last week because they could not afford the routine healthcare.

Short answer. Everyone. What would the 3+ trillion dollars squandered on Iraq and the Middle East have paid for? Do you think that God would rather see us let our citizens suffer, while we spend more than half of our national income on war related interests?
I don't think it is possible to understand what a new entitlement for 320 million people will cost. The line of people to see the doctor for a runny nose would be a mile long.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#14
I'm glad that someone mentioned the VA healthcare program and the care that is provided.

We have taken a program that was put in place to determine if a disability was service connected and pay for the treatment of those service related disabilities, and made it a healthcare system for veterans. I fully support that. The problem is that rather than paying for veteran healthcare as we pay for retiree healthcare, we have decided to make it a government run hospital and clinic based system. Veteran healthcare would work fine if we did away with the clinics and hospitals, and paid for care in the same manor military retirees' care is paid for.
How do they get paid for? And who is taking them?
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,036
1,473
113
#15
The military retiree healthcare program is called Tricare and it is paid for through the DoD budget. Retirees pay a 25% copay, up to a maximum of $3000. Medications have a three tier copay from local pharmacies and are free at closest military base. A three month supply of generics are free when purchased through mail order. When retirees reach 65 Tricare becomes a supplement to Medicare. (Military retiree's spouse and dependent children are covered under the Tricare program). The VA healthcare program should be managed the same way as Tricare.

Most physicians and hospitals in my area accept Tricare. The doctor files the claim, and is paid by Tricare. I get a monthly statement that itemizes claims paid and the amount paid. The total that the doctor is allowed to charge me is also listed.

I hope that this answers your question.

My prayer is that every citizen will be covered by a similar program in my lifetime.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#16
The military retiree healthcare program is called Tricare and it is paid for through the DoD budget. Retirees pay a 25% copay, up to a maximum of $3000. Medications have a three tier copay from local pharmacies and are free at closest military base. A three month supply of generics are free when purchased through mail order. When retirees reach 65 Tricare becomes a supplement to Medicare. (Military retiree's spouse and dependent children are covered under the Tricare program). The VA healthcare program should be managed the same way as Tricare.

Most physicians and hospitals in my area accept Tricare. The doctor files the claim, and is paid by Tricare. I get a monthly statement that itemizes claims paid and the amount paid. The total that the doctor is allowed to charge me is also listed.

I hope that this answers your question.

My prayer is that every citizen will be covered by a similar program in my lifetime.
What about hospital times, specialists, and routine care? $3000 would have been $1000 more than we had saved. That's two months of his income or over three months of my income.

If we were on that program, just our specialists appointments, procedures and tests would cost us roughly $1200 a month just on copay. Almost half of our income. Yikes!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,940
113
#17
As I have often said before, a single user pay system works in Canada, because we want it to work. Meaning, we put more into health care than wars and the military. Epipens did not go up in price at all here in Canada.

A biologic, an expensive RA drug called Rituxan I was on for 3 years, cost $1700 each for 2 infusions every six months in Canada. That is $3400 total. A friend of mine who was getting the same treatment in the US, said it cost her $75,000 for the same treatment. That is highway robbery, because the company that makes it here is making money.

Everyone in Canada is covered, for free by provincial health care, except for status natives who have a federal program. In BC we pay a user fee of $85 a month for complete coverage, which includes meds, after a limit has been reached, with a small copay. With my husband's work retirement plan, by March that means $0 per prescription.

There are a lot of lies being fed to Americans about bad health care in Canada. True, we have waits to see specialists, but not if it is urgent. And we do not get every test possible for every little thing, like the Americans I know do. The tests that some of my RA friends get are just incredible, especially when you can diagnose this disease quite nicely by symptoms.

Rant over!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#18
As I have often said before, a single user pay system works in Canada, because we want it to work. Meaning, we put more into health care than wars and the military. Epipens did not go up in price at all here in Canada.

A biologic, an expensive RA drug called Rituxan I was on for 3 years, cost $1700 each for 2 infusions every six months in Canada. That is $3400 total. A friend of mine who was getting the same treatment in the US, said it cost her $75,000 for the same treatment. That is highway robbery, because the company that makes it here is making money.

Everyone in Canada is covered, for free by provincial health care, except for status natives who have a federal program. In BC we pay a user fee of $85 a month for complete coverage, which includes meds, after a limit has been reached, with a small copay. With my husband's work retirement plan, by March that means $0 per prescription.

There are a lot of lies being fed to Americans about bad health care in Canada. True, we have waits to see specialists, but not if it is urgent. And we do not get every test possible for every little thing, like the Americans I know do. The tests that some of my RA friends get are just incredible, especially when you can diagnose this disease quite nicely by symptoms.

Rant over!
No. No rant this time, Angela. I really would like to know how it works in Canada. We were on vacation in Ontario in the early 80's, when hubby broke a bone in his foot. It cost us $75 (double or even triple that for COL raises over the decades and it's still cheap!) $15 of that cost was for not returning the crutches. (We were only there for a week, so he still needed them. lol)

But, I do think the wait time is a problem. "If it's not urgent" trips me up. My gall bladder surgery wasn't urgent. But, man! When you're facing the reality of gallstone colic once every five weeks, (they came right around the time of my period, so became somewhat predictable), it was all kinds of urgent for me. I hear it's a three to six month wait. That's two to five more excruciating pain episodes. And, unlike Canada, leaving the country to be treated quicker isn't an option quite as easily. (You're already the only country we can drive to that we'd trust with our healthcare needs. lol)

And right now I am waiting for a procedure. (Three-four week wait.) If I had to wait 3-6 months for this minor procedure, I might well wake up one day to a terrible headache followed by blindness, but it's not urgent either. My concern is the government regulations determine the word "urgent," instead of doctors. Given my country's history of legislators dictating healthcare terms, that's a problem. They're lawyers, and lawyers who gave up the work to play god with our lives.

As for the price gouging? I already showed the gouge isn't all from the pharmacological companies. I have no idea who adds to the price gouging. But, yeah, quite a bit of it has to do with how much they are allowed to charge other countries. I'm pretty sure auto manufacturers charge more for a car going out of the country, instead of less. Aren't cellphones evenly priced around the world? I know the only reason it cost more to sell lights and large electrical outlet boxes more if sold to Mexico and Canada is because of the NAFTA charges. Why is medication the only thing that goes down when it crosses any border? Do they know they're losing money elsewhere, so make it up on the American wallet? Or, is that too, a legislative gouge, like much of our legislators do?

I don't know if your country does this, but our legislators charge taxes on whatever they think most people need. We have no idea how much gas really cost us, because it is taxed at a local, state, and national level. I have a $10 cell phone. I pay $15 a month for it, because our legislators tax it at all levels too. I never use it because it cost $.25 a minute, so you can't blame that on overage. Government just decided phones and gas are luxuries.

And they have all sorts of excuses for that too. They tell why they need the money, until after the bill is passed. Once passed, we still don't know where the money goes, except it's certainly not on our infrastructure like was promised with the gas tax. And it wasn't for better phone coverage, since that's why the phone companies have been increasing their profits year after year. THEY made the better communications infrastructure (FiOS and towers), no the government.

In NJ in 1974, we were asked to approve casinos to "help senior citizens and education." 40+ years later, NJ is still one of the worst states in the country for education, and seniors get less help there than most states. They haven't even increased the payout for workman's comp since they first created Workman's Comp laws. If you break your back at work in NJ, no matter how bad it is, you get $5000 to live on. And NJ is one of the highest taxed states in the union.

The beginning of this year, in Philly, they proposed a tax on sugar. One-two cents per ounce of sugared drinks "for pre-school programs to help our children get a better education." They weren't even done passing it before they reneged on that promise. And I knew they weren't going to honor it because we are charged $6000 per student for a system that has about a 50% dropout rate, and, of those students who do graduate, another 50% of them are illiterate.

These are the hands you want us to trust to give us a useful healthcare system? This has nothing to do with how much we pay for our military. Our Constitution promises to take care of our military and our transportation. (Infrastructure.) That's it. That covers less than half of our budget, and they haven't done that well either. You want us to trust our government for a healthcare plan? Why? Even you don't trust our government with that.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,036
1,473
113
#19
What about hospital times, specialists, and routine care? $3000 would have been $1000 more than we had saved. That's two months of his income or over three months of my income.

If we were on that program, just our specialists appointments, procedures and tests would cost us roughly $1200 a month just on copay. Almost half of our income. Yikes!
I understand what you are saying. It took me almost a year to pay the $3,000 co pay for open heart surgery. The hospital and most of the doctors involved worked with me. One doctor wrote my copay off and turned it over to a collection agency within a month. Needless to say, his bill was the last to get paid. I would prefer a single pay that paid the entire bill. One like the rest of the developed world has. I'll accept a medicare like system as a starting point.

I live in an area with several great hospitals within a 50 mile radius. All of them accept Medicaid, Medicare, and Tricare. Most of the doctors do the same. The waiting period for non emergency surgical care varies from a week to six weeks. Six week waits usually involve orthopedic procedures like knee and hip replacement.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,036
1,473
113
#20
No. No rant this time, Angela. I really would like to know how it works in Canada. We were on vacation in Ontario in the early 80's, when hubby broke a bone in his foot. It cost us $75 (double or even triple that for COL raises over the decades and it's still cheap!) $15 of that cost was for not returning the crutches. (We were only there for a week, so he still needed them. lol)

But, I do think the wait time is a problem. "If it's not urgent" trips me up. My gall bladder surgery wasn't urgent. But, man! When you're facing the reality of gallstone colic once every five weeks, (they came right around the time of my period, so became somewhat predictable), it was all kinds of urgent for me. I hear it's a three to six month wait. That's two to five more excruciating pain episodes. And, unlike Canada, leaving the country to be treated quicker isn't an option quite as easily. (You're already the only country we can drive to that we'd trust with our healthcare needs. lol)

And right now I am waiting for a procedure. (Three-four week wait.) If I had to wait 3-6 months for this minor procedure, I might well wake up one day to a terrible headache followed by blindness, but it's not urgent either. My concern is the government regulations determine the word "urgent," instead of doctors. Given my country's history of legislators dictating healthcare terms, that's a problem. They're lawyers, and lawyers who gave up the work to play god with our lives.

As for the price gouging? I already showed the gouge isn't all from the pharmacological companies. I have no idea who adds to the price gouging. But, yeah, quite a bit of it has to do with how much they are allowed to charge other countries. I'm pretty sure auto manufacturers charge more for a car going out of the country, instead of less. Aren't cellphones evenly priced around the world? I know the only reason it cost more to sell lights and large electrical outlet boxes more if sold to Mexico and Canada is because of the NAFTA charges. Why is medication the only thing that goes down when it crosses any border? Do they know they're losing money elsewhere, so make it up on the American wallet? Or, is that too, a legislative gouge, like much of our legislators do?

I don't know if your country does this, but our legislators charge taxes on whatever they think most people need. We have no idea how much gas really cost us, because it is taxed at a local, state, and national level. I have a $10 cell phone. I pay $15 a month for it, because our legislators tax it at all levels too. I never use it because it cost $.25 a minute, so you can't blame that on overage. Government just decided phones and gas are luxuries.

And they have all sorts of excuses for that too. They tell why they need the money, until after the bill is passed. Once passed, we still don't know where the money goes, except it's certainly not on our infrastructure like was promised with the gas tax. And it wasn't for better phone coverage, since that's why the phone companies have been increasing their profits year after year. THEY made the better communications infrastructure (FiOS and towers), no the government.

In NJ in 1974, we were asked to approve casinos to "help senior citizens and education." 40+ years later, NJ is still one of the worst states in the country for education, and seniors get less help there than most states. They haven't even increased the payout for workman's comp since they first created Workman's Comp laws. If you break your back at work in NJ, no matter how bad it is, you get $5000 to live on. And NJ is one of the highest taxed states in the union.

The beginning of this year, in Philly, they proposed a tax on sugar. One-two cents per ounce of sugared drinks "for pre-school programs to help our children get a better education." They weren't even done passing it before they reneged on that promise. And I knew they weren't going to honor it because we are charged $6000 per student for a system that has about a 50% dropout rate, and, of those students who do graduate, another 50% of them are illiterate.

These are the hands you want us to trust to give us a useful healthcare system? This has nothing to do with how much we pay for our military. Our Constitution promises to take care of our military and our transportation. (Infrastructure.) That's it. That covers less than half of our budget, and they haven't done that well either. You want us to trust our government for a healthcare plan? Why? Even you don't trust our government with that.
Most government run programs in the US are riddled with bureaucracy, and are managed by multiple agencies. That needs to be addressed.

I'll use my local school system as an example. The ratio of teaching employees to non teaching employees is five to almost four. Last year five of the best classroom teachers were "promoted" to administrative positions. The interesting thing to me is online virtual school programs cost the state half as much and provide a better education than public schools. The administrative costs of these programs are more than half that of the public schools. The only thing that they require is a dedicated parent to keep students on track. My grandson was a C student in the public system. He became an A student in virtual school, and now has a 3.5 GPA in college. The answer to our education problems is government paid, privately run public schools.

I don't have an easy answer for the high crime gang run communities.