The Police Gun Issue

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Feb 7, 2015
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#61
It wasn't in his hand. You can see an officer pull the pistol out of his pocket... I'm not entirely convinced that they had to shoot him but these situations can be avoided but not being a violent felon on a grocery store parking lot with a gun
You must be talking about something else. I clearly, VERY CLEARLY, saw the gun being twisted out of his clinched right hand.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#62
As for the OP, 3-4 rounds is pretty standard.

Contrary to what we see in films, people are rarely killed by one shot let alone incapacitated. That is true for most carry guns out there unless you have an impractical, largely immobile hand cannon (see Colt Walker).

Even the famed .44 magnum will not blow your head clean off or send you flying into the adjacent block, particularly if "you" happen to be a grown man in the prime of life.

The modus operandi when an officer (or anyone else) perceives they are in a deadly situation is to shoot until it is reasonably perceived that the threat is no longer a threat. This could be one shot. It could be three. It could be fourteen in certain extreme circumstances.

I realize this sounds bizarre to people who have no experience with or inclination toward using/studying the use of handguns. But firing 3-4 rounds shows restraint in the part of the police officer in how he is seeking to extinguish a perceived threat.

The real question and issue at hand (and this is where me and the OP happen to agree I think) is when and how the officer perceives his life is in danger, not the means he uses to prevent his life from being extinguished.

Shooting until the threat is neutralized is nothing new. That's just a general rule of thumb in self-defense, unfortunately necessary in some situations. The problem is when innocent people are considered a threat and subject to that rule of them. Are they innocent? Was the police officer justified in choosing to draw? etc.
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
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#63
I didn't mean to say they weren't out there, somewhere. I just meant that it takes years to sort through 600 churches.

We went to Calvary Chapel for some time, and found it far too big and impersonal, not oriented toward the gifts (unless we could accept them being "attended to" only in back rooms after the service), not at all spontaneous, and the one here is hugely commercial and money driven. It's a small "Mega" church.... about 2,000 to 3,000 people.
I agree that it can take quite some time to find a church that you think that you will be comfortable in.

As for Calvary Chapels, they come in all shapes and sizes. The one I attended years ago had an attendance of about 5,000 which is why I finally left. I loved the teaching but it was near impossible to really get connected.
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
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#64
People always say withhold your opinion until the facts are in. Most of the same people who say that are, in the same breath, defending the officer. Thereby doing the very thing that they have asked others not to do.

Recently many have been defending the officer in Tulsa, because she said that the man reached in his car so she shot him. He did not have a gun on his person or in the vehicle. Not only was he shot he was also tased.

The video showed that his windows were up during the incident. She lied and is being charged with manslaughter. My thing is just because one is an officer does not automatically absolve them of guilt. Just because someone has been in trouble with the law does not automatically make them guilty in a current situation.

There are many cases out there where people have been killed needlessly by police. It takes more man hours to become a hairstylist than it does to become a police officer.
 
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Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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#65
I just read an article yesterday about a California highway patrol officer who pulled over a 100-car funeral procession on the freeway because he thought they were driving too slowly in creating a traffic hazard. So he thought the solution to this problem was to pull over 100 cars on the freeway...derp
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#66
People always say withhold your opinion until the facts are in. Most of the same people who say that are, in the same breath, defending the officer. Thereby doing the very thing that they have asked others not to do.

Recently many have been defending the officer in Tulsa, because she said that the man reached in his car so she shot him. He did not have a gun on his person or in the vehicle. Not only was he shot he was also tased.

The video showed that his windows were up during the incident. She lied and is being charged with manslaughter. My thing is just because one is an officer does not automatically absolve them of guilt. Just because someone has been in trouble with the law does not automatically make them guilty in a current situation.

There are many cases out there where people have been killed needlessly by police. It takes more man hours to become a hairstylist than it does to become a police officer.
What is your point? You wanted her charged, and she is being charged. You can't legislate how someone will react in any given arrest situation, any more than you can "train" a police officer into becoming a robot with no reactions to perceived threats..... all we can do is deal with things as they happen. And that is being done.
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
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#67
What is your point? You wanted her charged, and she is being charged. You can't legislate how someone will react in any given arrest situation, any more than you can "train" a police officer into becoming a robot with no reactions to perceived threats..... all we can do is deal with things as they happen. And that is being done.
People always say withhold your opinion until the facts are in. Most of the same people who say that are, in the same breath, defending the officer. Thereby doing the very thing that they have asked others not to do.
My thing is just because one is an officer does not automatically absolve them of guilt. Just because someone has been in trouble with the law does not automatically make them guilty in a current situation.
There are many cases out there where people have been killed needlessly by police. It takes more man hours to become a hairstylist than it does to become a police officer.

My points were made in my initial post. I don't know what you are digging your heels in the ground about. Yes I believe there should be MORE training for police officers noone use the term robot but you.

Cops are not above lying or being wrong.


Also, let me add that NO I DO NOT think that all officers are bad. The ones that are bad, aren't helping their colleagues job be any easier.
 
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Feb 7, 2015
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#68
My points were made in my initial post. I don't know what you are digging your heels in the ground about. Yes I believe there should be MORE training for police officers noone use the term robot but you.

Cops are not above lying or being wrong.


Also, let me add that NO I DO NOT think that all officers are bad. The ones that are bad, aren't helping their colleagues job be any easier.
I still don't get it. You want her charged, and she is being charged. THAT certainly is not "absolving her of guilt." She's going to be tried, for Pete's sake.
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
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#69
I still don't get it. You want her charged, and she is being charged. THAT certainly is not "absolving her of guilt." She's going to be tried, for Pete's sake.
I used her as an example of police not being above lying and are not always innocent as some like to project.
 
J

jeager

Guest
#70
I'm a disabled police officer with 22.5 years service.
10 years as a detective, 3 of of those 10 as Chief of Investigations.
I could have but never did shoot at least 3 X's.
Glad I didn't.
However I'm disabled with broken back #4.
9 months in rehab learning to walk again.
5 years in psychotherapy for sever p.t.s.d. delayed syndrome, recovering alcoholic.
About a year ago my former detective partner blew his brains out.
Walk a mile in a cops shoes and then you might be able to pass judgement based on the liberal news.
I suffer permanent intractable pain to this day.
Maybe I should have shot the sucka!
The "sucka" is not in jail, out making babies on the taxpayers expense.
 
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Feb 7, 2015
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#71
I'm a disabled police officer with 22.5 years service.
10 years as a detective, 3 of of those 10 as Chief of Investigations.
I could have but never did shoot at least 3 X's.
Glad I didn't.
However I'm disabled with broken back #4.
9 months in rehab learning to walk again.
5 years in psychotherapy for sever p.t.s.d. delayed syndrome, recovering alcoholic.
About a year ago my former detective partner blew his brains out.
Walk a mile in a cops shoes and then you might be able to pass judgement based on the liberal news.
I suffer permanent intractable pain to this day.
Maybe I should have shot the sucka!
The "sucka" is not in jail, out making babies on the taxpayers expense.
Were you meaning to point out that someone shot you?
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#72
I used her as an example of police not being above lying and are not always innocent as some like to project.
You think she is lying about something, and really just wanted to shoot someone?
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
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#73
You think she is lying about something, and really just wanted to shoot someone?


When she shot the man her statement was that he was reaching into his car. (The Lie)
So she shot him.
The windows were up in the car. How could he reach into a car when the windows were up.

I did not make the meme below.

 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
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#74
I'm not sure if the meme is to much to post, it isn't my intention to offend I was just trying to help WillieT understand my initial post.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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#75
cop says stop, you stop...its not a hard concept
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#76
So, you are saying she lied about what she thought she saw, and just wanted to shoot someone? I just now thought I saw a cat run across the yard outside my window. But I realized it was the shadow of an airplane going over when I leaned over and saw and heard the plane.. But if you had asked me, at that moment, what I saw, would I be lying if I said, "A cat just ran across the yard."?
 

HoneyDew

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
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#77
So, you are saying she lied about what she thought she saw, and just wanted to shoot someone? I just now thought I saw a cat run across the yard outside my window. But I realized it was the shadow of an airplane going over when I leaned over and saw and heard the plane.. But if you had asked me, at that moment, what I saw, would I be lying if I said, "A cat just ran across the yard?"
SMH, you are really reaching now. If you want a debate or an argument you are not going to get it here. My initial post still stands.
 
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Feb 7, 2015
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#78
cop says stop, you stop...its not a hard concept
This is something I just don't understand. Why is it so hard to remember that it is REAL easy to get a nervous officer to shoot you if you drop your hand to your side, or suddenly move your hand to your waist, or you quickly turn to face them with your arm outstretched toward them?

How stupid can some of these people be? At least one gun is trained right on you. Any move you make, other than what you have clearly been told to make, CAN (and probably WILL) be seen as a threat..... and you are likely to die because of doing something so stupid. So, why would you do it?

I've been jacked up by officers at least twenty times..... and I never once made the slightest move unless I loudly asked if I could... AND I certainly waited until I got a very plain response as to what I could, or could not, do.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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#79
There are situations when the police are clearly in the wrong like that guy who got shot in the back over a traffic violation but when you refuse to comply with simple instructions then this unnecessarily escalates the situation
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
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#80
The place to fight back is in court. The government loses cases everyday.