The Police Gun Issue

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A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#1
#1
So another guy has been shot by police in the US - his colour to me is irrelevant, what is relevant is this; why did they shoot this man at point blank range when his wife begged them not to and reassured them that he was harmless to them. More important even than this; if they really did believe he was armed was it necessary to shoot more than once? Wouldn't once have rendered the victim helpless? Wasn't this enough? I heard 3 or 4 shots - hard to tell with the echo but 3 at least - why? They wonder why there is outrage and protests - sheesh....
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#2
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#2
Amazing-Grace said:
So another guy has been shot by police in the US - his colour to me is irrelevant, what is relevant is this; why did they shoot this man at point blank range when his wife begged them not to and reassured them that he was harmless to them. More important even than this; if they really did believe he was armed was it necessary to shoot more than once? Wouldn't once have rendered the victim helpless? Wasn't this enough? I heard 3 or 4 shots - hard to tell with the echo but 3 at least - why? They wonder why there is outrage and protests - sheesh....
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If four different guns are aimed at you by four different people, and you make a threatening move, it stands to reason that all four people are going to react at the same time. You sound like you expect each of them to stand there, and wait to see if someone else is going to keep him from opening fire on them. This is not the Old West where they are seeing who can outdraw the guy with the gun already in his hand.

I hear a lot of big, loud talk, but you have all seen the video of the preacher the officers gave a pistol to, in order to test his abilities. He "shot" the innocent victims in the enactment every time.... just out of pure reaction. And he KNEW it was all fake.
 
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CeileDe

Guest
#3
#3
Amazing-Grace said:
So another guy has been shot by police in the US - his colour to me is irrelevant, what is relevant is this; why did they shoot this man at point blank range when his wife begged them not to and reassured them that he was harmless to them. More important even than this; if they really did believe he was armed was it necessary to shoot more than once? Wouldn't once have rendered the victim helpless? Wasn't this enough? I heard 3 or 4 shots - hard to tell with the echo but 3 at least - why? They wonder why there is outrage and protests - sheesh....
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Really? Why is it the Police Officers fault for protecting themselves along with other citizens? You can't sit and nitpick what they do if you haven't been in their shoes. Police Officers aren't without nerves, they aren't without fear. And from the training the LEO's get in my area, you don't just shoot once and hope your aim was good enough to stop the suspect. The issue is, this guy didn't obey orders to put down his gun and the end result was he got shot and died.

I think it is shameful people like you come on here and criticize the men and women who are defending citizens everyday. I just read a report of three men shooting a group of people including a 3 year old girl. Where is the outcry for the 3 year old? Why did these three men have to shoot so many times? The hypocrisy is astounding when it comes to LEO's.

I think more people need to actually put themselves in the officer's shoes and really think before they make comments. People are rioting because they have nothing better to do. They want to spread hate and anger and people just thrive on these types of emotions.
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#4
#4
Willie-T said:
If four different guns are aimed at you by four different people, and you make a threatening move, it stands to reason that all four people are going to react at the same time. You sound like you expect each of them to stand there, and wait to see if someone else is going to keep him from opening fire on them. This is not the Old West where they are seeing who can outdraw the guy with the gun already in his hand.

I hear a lot of big, loud talk, but you have all seen the video of the preacher the officers gave a pistol to, in order to test his abilities. He "shot" the innocent victims in the enactment every time.... just out of pure reaction. And he KNEW it was all fake.
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No I did not see that video Willie, I only know what I see on our news broadcasts. I don't know...perhaps you are right and I am wrong but this guy had a family it just looks to me like he was shot in cold blood. I didn't see a need to shoot him that many times. Was he really armed?
 
J

jennymae

Guest
#5
#5
My dad is a retired law enforcer, and from what I've heard from him, they are taught to react in certain ways if the suspect is not cooperating. They have to do this in order to survive. The only thing one could be criticizing, I guess, is that people should get some more info on how to be conducting themselves whenever being approached by an officer, because I do not believe that everybody knows how little it takes before a gun is fired in a heated situation.
 
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CeileDe

Guest
#6
#6
Amazing-Grace said:
No I did not see that video Willie, I only know what I see on our news broadcasts. I don't know...perhaps you are right and I am wrong but this guy had a family it just looks to me like he was shot in cold blood. I didn't see a need to shoot him that many times. Was he really armed?
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Yes he was armed with a GUN. You see, people like yourself love to react to reports before the evidence is out. What if you were accused of a crime and people started saying things about you that aren't true? How would you feel? This is why we need to wait and find out everything that has happened before we start accusing others.
 
PrynceNY

PrynceNY

Banned
#7
Aug 16, 2016
2,184
62
0
#7
CeileDe said:
Really? Why is it the Police Officers fault for protecting themselves along with other citizens? You can't sit and nitpick what they do if you haven't been in their shoes. Police Officers aren't without nerves, they aren't without fear. And from the training the LEO's get in my area, you don't just shoot once and hope your aim was good enough to stop the suspect. The issue is, this guy didn't obey orders to put down his gun and the end result was he got shot and died.

I think it is shameful people like you come on here and criticize the men and women who are defending citizens everyday. I just read a report of three men shooting a group of people including a 3 year old girl. Where is the outcry for the 3 year old? Why did these three men have to shoot so many times? The hypocrisy is astounding when it comes to LEO's.

I think more people need to actually put themselves in the officer's shoes and really think before they make comments. People are rioting because they have nothing better to do. They want to spread hate and anger and people just thrive on these types of emotions.
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I've seen actual video of situations of police officers telling people "hands up" & the person complies (Not a threat) and the officer still shoots them. Some people just aren't qualified to be police officers. Too many civilians end up shot or killed by untrained "fearful" officers
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#8
#8
CeileDe said:
Yes he was armed with a GUN. You see, people like yourself love to react to reports before the evidence is out. What if you were accused of a crime and people started saying things about you that aren't true? How would you feel? This is why we need to wait and find out everything that has happened before we start accusing others.
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What do you mean by "people like me"? You mean people who care about justice for the man in the street? Yes that's me. I don't like injustice so I'm questioning this incident. Is that wrong? Should we just allow a shooting to happen without question? What if it were a member of YOUR family? I'm sure you would ask questions too!
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#9
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#9
Amazing-Grace said:
No I did not see that video Willie, I only know what I see on our news broadcasts. I don't know...perhaps you are right and I am wrong but this guy had a family it just looks to me like he was shot in cold blood. I didn't see a need to shoot him that many times. Was he really armed?
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It was posted right here on this forum and you were a member then.
 
Tommy379

Tommy379

Notorious Member
#11
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
113
#11
Amazing-Grace said:
What do you mean by "people like me"? You mean people who care about justice for the man in the street? Yes that's me. I don't like injustice so I'm questioning this incident. Is that wrong? Should we just allow a shooting to happen without question? What if it were a member of YOUR family? I'm sure you would ask questions too!
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I'm sorry, but the man shot made the decision to be shot by police. He had a firearm in hand and refused to surrender. His wife can yell that he is harmless, but I'll take the mans word that is holding the weapon that he is not harmless. The news media where you live at must be very dishonest at this point to report this as a bad shooting.
 
C

CeileDe

Guest
#12
#12
Amazing-Grace said:
So another guy has been shot by police in the US - his colour to me is irrelevant, what is relevant is this; why did they shoot this man at point blank range when his wife begged them not to and reassured them that he was harmless to them. More important even than this; if they really did believe he was armed was it necessary to shoot more than once? Wouldn't once have rendered the victim helpless? Wasn't this enough? I heard 3 or 4 shots - hard to tell with the echo but 3 at least - why? They wonder why there is outrage and protests - sheesh....
Click to expand...
Amazing-Grace said:
What do you mean by "people like me"? You mean people who care about justice for the man in the street? Yes that's me. I don't like injustice so I'm questioning this incident. Is that wrong? Should we just allow a shooting to happen without question? What if it were a member of YOUR family? I'm sure you would ask questions too!
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I quoted your first post as well. You are accusing officers of using too much force before the facts were brought out. You didn't know the suspect had a gun therefore were jumping to conclusions. Yes there are bad cops out there and should be gone. My statement was for people like you who jump to conclusions before the facts are out.
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#13
#13
Oh OK then I consider myself reprimanded!
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#14
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#14
CeileDe said:
I quoted your first post as well. You are accusing officers of using too much force before the facts were brought out. You didn't know the suspect had a gun therefore were jumping to conclusions. Yes there are bad cops out there and should be gone. My statement was for people like you who jump to conclusions before the facts are out.
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Well, it WAS on the news, so instead of reprimanding AG, maybe you should tell the news stations to have ALL the facts before they air it on TV.. just sayin'
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#15
#15
blue_ladybug said:
Well, it WAS on the news, so instead of reprimanding AG, maybe you should tell the news stations to have ALL the facts before they air it on TV.. just sayin'
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The news report didn't say he was armed. I did hear his wife/partner screaming that he wan't armed. I hate watching stuff like that - it's all so unnecessary losing one's life in that way. I just feel the end result could have been avoided.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#16
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#16
The media only tells us what they want us to know.. They lie and tell half-truth's all the time.
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#17
#17
blue_ladybug said:
The media only tells us what they want us to know.. They lie and tell half-truth's all the time.
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Yeah I know and a lot of the time it's what they DON'T report.
 
C

CeileDe

Guest
#18
#18
blue_ladybug said:
Well, it WAS on the news, so instead of reprimanding AG, maybe you should tell the news stations to have ALL the facts before they air it on TV.. just sayin'
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Everyone is responsible for what they say and do. Yes the media has a responsibility but so do we.
 
kodiak

kodiak

Senior Member
#19
Mar 8, 2015
4,995
290
83
#19
Amazing-Grace said:
So another guy has been shot by police in the US - his colour to me is irrelevant, what is relevant is this; why did they shoot this man at point blank range when his wife begged them not to and reassured them that he was harmless to them. More important even than this; if they really did believe he was armed was it necessary to shoot more than once? Wouldn't once have rendered the victim helpless? Wasn't this enough? I heard 3 or 4 shots - hard to tell with the echo but 3 at least - why? They wonder why there is outrage and protests - sheesh....
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I am not sure what the scenario is that happened. I can answer some of your questions though.
1) It doesn't matter what the wife says. Many people will deny a close family member or friend was capable of many crimes, but later find out that the person really did do something. There could be something going on that the wife doesn't know about and the guy could still be a threat to them, even though she doesn't think so.

2) One gunshot does not render a person helpless like you see in movies. Many people don't even realize they are shot in the leg or arm and keep using it. Police are trained to neutralize a threat. They shoot until their is no longer a threat. One gun shot even to the heart is not an instant kill in most cases, the person still has so many seconds left of oxygen getting to the brain. The person can still move too. Once there is no longer a threat, typically they go up and still make sure there is no threat, then see if they can help the person while waiting for medical help.

The outrage is typically caused by people not understanding how and why police react in certain situations.

There was a case a long time ago where a person was pulled over. They disobeyed the cop and started dancing around in the street. The cop stood back trying to use voice commands to get the guy to listen, but eventually the guy just stopped dancing, walked to his truck, grabbed a gun, and shot the police officer. He then drove off, leaving the officer lying there. Somehow that officer survived.
 
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