Trump: Lies or Just Stupid?

[Angela53510]

Whether he purposely lied, or is just ignorant or even stupid, the fact is, Trump is not presidential material. People complain about Hilllary's lies, rightly so, but Trump's lies make Hillary look like an honest Saint!

"Of all of Donald Trump’s lies, and they are getting more difficult to keep up with, there is one that he continues parroting with impunity with hardly any challenges. Trump, like tens-of-millions of Americans and tens-of-thousands of businesses, has benefitted greatly from the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and yet he pledges to abolish it. As a perceived weapon against Hillary Clinton, Trump continues swearing that NAFTA was conceived, pushed, negotiated, and signed by then-president Bill Clinton; that is simply not true and any American with rudimentary calendar skills knows it’s a lie; including Donald Trump.

The origin of NAFTA dates back to 1990 as a trade pact among the three nations. Three leaders, American President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas were each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement in their home countries and each participated in ceremonial signing in their respective capitals on December 17, 1992. Bill Clinton was sworn in as the 42nd President thirty-four days after George H.W. Bush signed the NAFTA trade pact.The day after George H.W. Bush, not then-Governor of Arkansas Bill Clinton, ceremoniously signed the NAFTA trade agreement, president-elect Clinton reiterated his campaign assertion that there would have to be new job and environmental protections, and safeguards against sudden trade surges, but they could be settled without renegotiating the entire treaty with Mexico and Canada before he submitted implementing legislation. In a statement, still Arkansas Governor Clinton said, “I will pursue those other things that I think need to be done in the public interest, then I will prepare implementing legislation and try to pass it in Congress.” Those job protections, like job protections today, never materialized in Congress because Republicans."

Trump Is Wrong, NAFTA Was Not Bill Clinton’s Creation

I don't like Hillary much at all. I don't like many Democrat policies. But Americans need to wake up and see Trump for what he is - a classless liar, who is only in this election to make the tax laws better for himself. Can you say narcissistic?

 

[CeileDe]

Whether he purposely lied, or is just ignorant or even stupid, the fact is, Trump is not presidential material. People complain about Hilllary's lies, rightly so, but Trump's lies make Hillary look like an honest Saint!

"Of all of Donald Trump’s lies, and they are getting more difficult to keep up with, there is one that he continues parroting with impunity with hardly any challenges. Trump, like tens-of-millions of Americans and tens-of-thousands of businesses, has benefitted greatly from the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and yet he pledges to abolish it. As a perceived weapon against Hillary Clinton, Trump continues swearing that NAFTA was conceived, pushed, negotiated, and signed by then-president Bill Clinton; that is simply not true and any American with rudimentary calendar skills knows it’s a lie; including Donald Trump.

The origin of NAFTA dates back to 1990 as a trade pact among the three nations. Three leaders, American President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas were each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement in their home countries and each participated in ceremonial signing in their respective capitals on December 17, 1992. Bill Clinton was sworn in as the 42nd President thirty-four days after George H.W. Bush signed the NAFTA trade pact.The day after George H.W. Bush, not then-Governor of Arkansas Bill Clinton, ceremoniously signed the NAFTA trade agreement, president-elect Clinton reiterated his campaign assertion that there would have to be new job and environmental protections, and safeguards against sudden trade surges, but they could be settled without renegotiating the entire treaty with Mexico and Canada before he submitted implementing legislation. In a statement, still Arkansas Governor Clinton said, “I will pursue those other things that I think need to be done in the public interest, then I will prepare implementing legislation and try to pass it in Congress.” Those job protections, like job protections today, never materialized in Congress because Republicans."

Trump Is Wrong, NAFTA Was Not Bill Clinton’s Creation

I don't like Hillary much at all. I don't like many Democrat policies. But Americans need to wake up and see Trump for what he is - a classless liar, who is only in this election to make the tax laws better for himself. Can you say narcissistic?

So maybe he got it wrong who started it. Now as a business man he made use of America's laws concerning his company. I think everyone who owns a business or does taxes tries in some way to get more money out of every loop hole there is. Does this make Trump a liar because he is going to change something he has used to his advantage? Trump has freely admitted he used the laws for business and made money doing it. Maybe the entire time he thought it was a stupid law but because it was a law he was able to make use of it.

Everyone is so quick to call him a liar for besting the system. Now if he gets into office and he does the opposite of what he is saying now then I would call him a liar.

 

[PrynceNY]

I respect your opinion but Hillary is one of the wickedess women in America. So i would in no way associate her even close to a "saint". On the flip side she may be foolish enough to think she can deceive people with her lies. I mean she already got away with her criminal activities & still running for president which is pretty disgraceful tbh. I'm all in favor for a woman to become president but certainly not her.

 

[Angela53510]

So maybe he got it wrong who started it. Now as a business man he made use of America's laws concerning his company. I think everyone who owns a business or does taxes tries in some way to get more money out of every loop hole there is. Does this make Trump a liar because he is going to change something he has used to his advantage? Trump has freely admitted he used the laws for business and made money doing it. Maybe the entire time he thought it was a stupid law but because it was a law he was able to make use of it.

Everyone is so quick to call him a liar for besting the system. Now if he gets into office and he does the opposite of what he is saying now then I would call him a liar.

The issue is NOT how Trump or any other businessman profited from NAFTA. The issue is that Trump attacked Hillary for something her husband did when her husband was president! (How misogynist can you get? Like Hillary is not capable of making her own decisions, mistakes and even right decisions - she is a timid little housewife under her husband's thumb? NOT)

In fact, the issue is, Trump totally mixed up his facts which were totally available to anyone who either lived then (Trump and myself!) or anyone with a computer who can do a Google search.

So, either Trump lied - meaning he set out to intentionally deceive people. And if he lied, it is another example of him denigrating the people of America and the world, and thinking that people would not remember dates, and somehow smearing Bill (wrongly, of course!) would also tarnish Hillary. So he would be a first class liar and deceiver if he set out to lie about the simple facts about who negotiated and signed the agreement - not Bill Clinton, not that it has a thing to do with Hillary.

But, let's say for argument's sake, Trump did not lie. He honestly remembered in his own mind, Clinton signed NATFA. That is a GIANT memory lapse! He was involved in business in those days, and certainly was aware of who signed the agreement, and in particular how it benefited him. I was NOT in business and I remember the signing of NAFTA well. As a person living on the edge of poverty, with 4 hungry children, I cross bordered shopped for cheaper gas and dairy products weekly. I only had to pay a import tax once, when I went through the Peace Arch large border shopping on two gallons of milk. I think it cost me $1.25 or something. After that, I went to the smaller border crossings.

The point of this rant, was that I had hoped there would be no more taxes with free trade, and it never happened. It was never about cross border shopping, but big business getting new ways to cut costs and make more money. It was about people like Trump benefitting. Certainly not the Canadian people! We lost on that deal, and I would love to see the TPP canceled too! Harper even admitted that a lot of people weren't going to like the TPP because in order to get something many people in Canada were going to have to give up something. Like dairy farmers in particular.

But I digress! My memories are long and deep about NAFTA, a child of the Republican Party and George Bush Sr. So, getting back to the topic, why does Trump apparently not remember the facts? Does he suffer from some kind of dementia? He is old! And when I think of it, his weird and screwy behaviour could also be early signs of Alzhemier's! And that is something I do know quite a bit about, having been a chaplain in long term care for a few years, and watching the stages of deterioration in my MIL.


So, is Trump a liar, or is he stupid? And by stupid, sorry to use the term, I mean already showing signs of dementia? My husband favours the dementia, I am in the middle.

The point is, do you want a president who either deliberately lies to score points on international television, or he is suffering from dementia, which will only get worse during his 4 year term if elected? Scary thoughts to me! But there is no real middle ground, is there?

 

[posthuman]

so the replies so far are

'maybe he did lie about that, but he probably puts his own personal gain above the welfare of others, and everybody does, so i think we need to elect him before we can decide if he really is a liar'

and

'so what if Trump is a liar Hilary Clinton is a liar'

folks, i don't think we're thinking very clearly when it comes to politics.

 

[Angela53510]

I respect your opinion but Hillary is one of the wickedess women in America. So i would in no way associate her even close to a "saint". On the flip side she may be foolish enough to think she can deceive people with her lies. I mean she already got away with her criminal activities & still running for president which is pretty disgraceful tbh. I'm all in favor for a woman to become president but certainly not her.

So, be objective for a minute! What are you going to do with the wicked lies of Donald Trump? He actually had 10 times the lies in that debate. And those were things that were easily fact checked! What about the lies about all the things that no one has uncovered? He has no integrity, no class, no political experience, and you will not be able to trust a word that comes out of his mouth!

Imagine 4 years with a man who makes Hillary look like... Ok not quite a saint, I agree. But compared to Donald, someone with more ethics than Donald Trump has shown through out this whole campaign or his whole life. Does he even know the definition of ethics? I wonder!

Yes, America is in a mess, because you have two candidates you cannot trust, and weighing who is more wicked, I truly believe Trump is the one who comes out as the winner in this contest! But at least Hillary wasn't a buffoon on the stage. Just his facial expressions alone showed him unfit for public office, forget about the lies! Did you even read the OP?

 

[Tommy379]

If yall would like to do some research, sure NAFTA was negotiated by that globalist scum Bush, but NAFTA wasn’t approved by Congress until November 1993, signed into law by Clinton in December 1993 and went into effect January 1994. The signing Bush did was ceremonial and no effect on the law. I watched it on T.V. I remember it well because my parents finally took me to the A and N store to get my first and last pair of Jordans.

 

[PrynceNY]

It's ironic you mention no integrity & no class yet the same can easily be said about Hillary. In which in her case makes it even worst with the so called "experience" she has. As far as the debate the questions were more one sided on attacking trump while not even addressing hillarys countless scandals. Even when addressed on the emails she said "it was a mistake" when she deliberately lied and tried covering it up. "You will not be able to trust a word that comes out of his mouth" hmm that sure exactly depicts Hillary who spoke nothing but lies in court.

 

[Sirk]

If yall would like to do some research, sure NAFTA was negotiated by that globalist scum Bush, but NAFTA wasn’t approved by Congress until November 1993, signed into law by Clinton in December 1993 and went into effect January 1994. The signing Bush did was ceremonial and no effect on the law. I watched it on T.V. I remember it well because my parents finally took me to the A and N store to get my first and last pair of Jordans.

Seems there's a lot of messenger shooting going on in this thread. To add to your post as evidence that it wasn't Signed into law until billy was that Ross Perot made it a big part of his campaign....remember the giant sucking sound? We got some revisionist history going on in this thread. And to say that trump makes Hillary looks like a saint is a truly baffling statement.

 

[SparkleEyes]

He is both a liar and not very smart.

 

[CeileDe]

The issue is NOT how Trump or any other businessman profited from NAFTA. The issue is that Trump attacked Hillary for something her husband did when her husband was president! (How misogynist can you get? Like Hillary is not capable of making her own decisions, mistakes and even right decisions - she is a timid little housewife under her husband's thumb? NOT)

In fact, the issue is, Trump totally mixed up his facts which were totally available to anyone who either lived then (Trump and myself!) or anyone with a computer who can do a Google search.

So, either Trump lied - meaning he set out to intentionally deceive people. And if he lied, it is another example of him denigrating the people of America and the world, and thinking that people would not remember dates, and somehow smearing Bill (wrongly, of course!) would also tarnish Hillary. So he would be a first class liar and deceiver if he set out to lie about the simple facts about who negotiated and signed the agreement - not Bill Clinton, not that it has a thing to do with Hillary.

But, let's say for argument's sake, Trump did not lie. He honestly remembered in his own mind, Clinton signed NATFA. That is a GIANT memory lapse! He was involved in business in those days, and certainly was aware of who signed the agreement, and in particular how it benefited him. I was NOT in business and I remember the signing of NAFTA well. As a person living on the edge of poverty, with 4 hungry children, I cross bordered shopped for cheaper gas and dairy products weekly. I only had to pay a import tax once, when I went through the Peace Arch large border shopping on two gallons of milk. I think it cost me $1.25 or something. After that, I went to the smaller border crossings.

The point of this rant, was that I had hoped there would be no more taxes with free trade, and it never happened. It was never about cross border shopping, but big business getting new ways to cut costs and make more money. It was about people like Trump benefitting. Certainly not the Canadian people! We lost on that deal, and I would love to see the TPP canceled too! Harper even admitted that a lot of people weren't going to like the TPP because in order to get something many people in Canada were going to have to give up something. Like dairy farmers in particular.

But I digress! My memories are long and deep about NAFTA, a child of the Republican Party and George Bush Sr. So, getting back to the topic, why does Trump apparently not remember the facts? Does he suffer from some kind of dementia? He is old! And when I think of it, his weird and screwy behaviour could also be early signs of Alzhemier's! And that is something I do know quite a bit about, having been a chaplain in long term care for a few years, and watching the stages of deterioration in my MIL.


So, is Trump a liar, or is he stupid? And by stupid, sorry to use the term, I mean already showing signs of dementia? My husband favours the dementia, I am in the middle.

The point is, do you want a president who either deliberately lies to score points on international television, or he is suffering from dementia, which will only get worse during his 4 year term if elected? Scary thoughts to me! But there is no real middle ground, is there?

Well I wouldn't call him stupid or a liar. I have remembered things in my own past that were actually not exactly how they happened. I was corrected and I moved on. I wasn't a liar nor was I stupid, I was just remembering wrong. I get that people don't like Trump and I get that our government is screwed up royally in this country as well. I refuse to vote for someone who has people killed for profit and refuses to send aid to Americans in harms way. I will take Trump over Hillary any minute of every day.

 

[Tommy379]

He is both a liar and not very smart.

Takes one to know one.

 

[Fenner]

November 8th can't come soon enough for this American.

 

[posthuman]

It's ironic you mention no integrity & no class yet the same can easily be said about Hillary. In which in her case makes it even worst with the so called "experience" she has. As far as the debate the questions were more one sided on attacking trump while not even addressing hillarys countless scandals. Even when addressed on the emails she said "it was a mistake" when she deliberately lied and tried covering it up. "You will not be able to trust a word that comes out of his mouth" hmm that sure exactly depicts Hillary who spoke nothing but lies in court.

dude. you are not comprehending.

"candidate B is a liar"

does not address the problem that

"candidate A is a liar"

and the fact that candidate B is also a liar is not a good reason to support candidate A, also a liar. if being a liar is the problem, then that disqualifies both of them.

i get the impression that you are only voting for Trump because you hate Clinton. fine. i think that's stupid of you, but be honest about it. and the point that Angela is bringing out here is that the thing you hate Hilary for, Trump is the same thing too. so you're just swapping support for one liar or another.

having two major candidates that are both very undesireable liars is a problem, for sure. but you don't seem to be looking at it with a clear head, based on your reaction.

 

[Fenner]

Takes one to know one.

Totally unnecessary, she's entitled to her opinion.

 

[posthuman]

November 8th can't come soon enough for this American.

yeah.

11.08.2024

 

[CeileDe]

dude. you are not comprehending.

"candidate B is a liar"

does not address the problem that

"candidate A is a liar"

and the fact that candidate B is also a liar is not a good reason to support candidate A, also a liar. if being a liar is the problem, then that disqualifies both of them.

i get the impression that you are only voting for Trump because you hate Clinton. fine. i think that's stupid of you, but be honest about it. and the point that Angela is bringing out here is that the thing you hate Hilary for, Trump is the same thing too. so you're just swapping support for one liar or another.

having two major candidates that are both very undesireable liars is a problem, for sure. but you don't seem to be looking at it with a clear head, based on your reaction.

Every politician is a liar. We are all liars. So now people are going to get all up in arms about Politicians telling lies? This is the world we live in and either we completely stay out of it or pick the Candidate that best fits our own beliefs.

 

[posthuman]

Every politician is a liar. We are all liars. So now people are going to get all up in arms about Politicians telling lies? This is the world we live in and either we completely stay out of it or pick the Candidate that best fits our own beliefs.

lol and what if one of them is lying about his beliefs just so a person like you will vote for them?

i would sooner trust an atheist who admits they are an atheist than an atheist who pretends to be a believer, wouldn't you?

personally i won't cast a vote for either one of them. i will vote for someone who i actually respect - not "the liar i hate least"

two party system be damned

 

[Billyd]

Billyd's secret, very accurate presidential election model, still predicts Hillary Clinton will win (even without Billy's vote) the election in November. As of today, her chances are better than they were a week ago.

 

[jennymae]

He emboldens our adversaries, is misogynist, and is advocating anti American ideas
...I can't support this candidate...and frankly, I don't understand how somebody can...