Trump didn't bother to show up in Situation Room for botched Yemen raid

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Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#42
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
112
0
#42
Tommy379 said:
Would you say that to my face?
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What I want to know is what he thinks is idiotic about what you said. I used too have respect for him. Not so much anymore.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Senior Member
#43
Oct 27, 2016
1,434
477
83
#43
Sirk said:
They also need to come to terms with the fact that some of their countryman, the laws they live under and accept that abuse women and children puts a stain on their culture and the perception of it. You talk like they're innocent with clean hands. Nothing like calling out a blanket claim with another blanket claim.
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You can't inaccurately infer what I'm saying ("you're acting like...") and then accuse me of making a blanketed statement. That's like the "you're rubber, I'm glue, anything you say bounces off and sticks to you" trick they did in grade school. Not one sentence did I say "ALL their hands are clean"... I was specifically speaking of the Muslim brothers I fought side-by-side with that died serving their country. Their "countrymen" are you and me... along with other Americans. They might have been Muslim but they are still American who paid the ultimate sacrifice so that some people can be bigots and think they are trying to kill all Americans/unbelievers.

There are Muslims and Christians who "abuse women and children"... If you're going to judge, judge a personal individually and not collectively. Not all Christians agree with each other and not all Muslims agree with each other.

Ignorant people say "well if there are good Muslims they need to rise up and speak out against the extremists"... No kidding... There are Muslims who do more than just "speak out"... they lay down their life to stop any force of evil, yes... even radical Islamics. This "non-existent good Muslim" talk is pure trash.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#44
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#44
Smoke said:
You can't inaccurately infer what I'm saying ("you're acting like...") and then accuse me of making a blanketed statement. That's like the "you're rubber, I'm glue, anything you say bounces off and sticks to you" trick they did in grade school. Not one sentence did I say "ALL their hands are clean"... I was specifically speaking of the Muslim brothers I fought side-by-side with that died serving their country. Their "countrymen" are you and me... along with other Americans. They might have been Muslim but they are still American who paid the ultimate sacrifice so that some people can be bigots and think they are trying to kill all Americans/unbelievers.

There are Muslims and Christians who "abuse women and children"... If you're going to judge, judge a personal individually and not collectively. Not all Christians agree with each other and not all Muslims agree with each other.

Ignorant people say "well if there are good Muslims they need to rise up and speak out against the extremists"... No kidding... There are Muslims who do more than just "speak out"... they lay down their life to stop any force of evil, yes... even radical Islamics. This "non-existent good Muslim" talk is pure trash.
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It all sounds good.
But we have some very real facts to face.
May I start with just one question about that?

Do these Muslims believe in their religion, and follow it as best they can?
 
Smoke

Smoke

Senior Member
#45
Oct 27, 2016
1,434
477
83
#45
Willie-T said:
It all sounds good.
But we have some very real facts to face.
May I start with just one question about that?

Do these Muslims believe in their religion, and follow it as best they can?
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It would be sort of hard to ask the ones who paid the ultimate sacrifice... they died fighting radical Islamic terrorists after all. As for the surviving Muslims, I'm not sure. I've only 3 good Muslim vets I keep in contact with and we don't talk about religion much. I know they disagree with radical Islamics... they disagree with certain doctrine... In that sense, I see a parallel with Christianity. We have gays who think they can be actively Christian and gay... then we have Christians who say "No, it's an abomination..."

It's all rather moot though... if a Muslim sacrifices his life to save an unbeliever, how then can we accuse him/her of being a "patient warrior" waiting to strike down the unbeliever? It's absurd.
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#46
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
112
0
#46
Smoke said:
It would be sort of hard to ask the ones who paid the ultimate sacrifice... they died fighting radical Islamic terrorists after all. As for the surviving Muslims, I'm not sure. I've only 3 good Muslim vets I keep in contact with and we don't talk about religion much. I know they disagree with radical Islamics... they disagree with certain doctrine... In that sense, I see a parallel with Christianity. We have gays who think they can be actively Christian and gay... then we have Christians who say "No, it's an abomination..."

It's all rather moot though... if a Muslim sacrifices his life to save an unbeliever, how then can we accuse him/her of being a "patient warrior" waiting to strike down the unbeliever? It's absurd.
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so how many Muslims do you feel safe letting in the front door. 8 of 10? 6 of 10? 9 of 10? 10 of 10?...without good vetting procedures. Just because you don't have sensible boundaries in your life doesn't mean I have to play along with your lunacy. And guess what...ISIS HAS A PASSPORT MAKING MACHINE....and it's my understanding they make good as the real ones.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Senior Member
#47
Oct 27, 2016
1,434
477
83
#47
Sirk said:
so how many Muslims do you feel safe letting in the front door. 8 of 10? 6 of 10? 9 of 10? 10 of 10?...without good vetting procedures. Just because you don't have sensible boundaries in your life doesn't mean I have to play along with your lunacy. And guess what...ISIS HAS A PASSPORT MAKING MACHINE....and it's my understanding they make good as the real ones.
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What gives you the right to presume I don't have any boundaries? You don't even know me personally. I could just as easily presume to know how you were as a husband and a father based on the few posts I've seen you say about it... Just because I recall you saying you're twice divorced doesn't mean I can pretend to know that your kid is going to follow in your footsteps. Leave the personal drama at the door and lets discuss content/substance.

Now then... I would let every Muslim brother in my house that I fought with. I never said I was against Trumps temporary ban... It's not even a Muslim ban. This has NOTHING to do with my original comment about Tommy's proclamation that all Muslims are evil and "patient warriors".
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#48
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
112
0
#48
Smoke said:
What gives you the right to presume I don't have any boundaries? You don't even know me personally. I could just as easily presume to know how you were as a husband and a father based on the few posts I've seen you say about it... Just because I recall you saying you're twice divorced doesn't mean I can pretend to know that your kid is going to follow in your footsteps. Leave the personal drama at the door and lets discuss content/substance.

Now then... I would let every Muslim brother in my house that I fought with. I never said I was against Trumps temporary ban... It's not even a Muslim ban. This has NOTHING to do with my original comment about Tommy's proclamation that all Muslims are evil and "patient warriors".
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he didn't say they ALL were. Talk about presuming.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#49
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#49
Smoke said:
It would be sort of hard to ask the ones who paid the ultimate sacrifice... they died fighting radical Islamic terrorists after all. As for the surviving Muslims, I'm not sure. I've only 3 good Muslim vets I keep in contact with and we don't talk about religion much. I know they disagree with radical Islamics... they disagree with certain doctrine... In that sense, I see a parallel with Christianity. We have gays who think they can be actively Christian and gay... then we have Christians who say "No, it's an abomination..."

It's all rather moot though... if a Muslim sacrifices his life to save an unbeliever, how then can we accuse him/her of being a "patient warrior" waiting to strike down the unbeliever? It's absurd.
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The "absurd" thing is to have the ability to (as best we can) 'vet' people (all people) coming into this country from nations where their religion tells them we are already enemies.... and to just ignore that line of defense.
 
PrynceNY

PrynceNY

Banned
#50
Aug 16, 2016
2,184
62
0
#50
Smoke said:
You can't inaccurately infer what I'm saying ("you're acting like...") and then accuse me of making a blanketed statement. That's like the "you're rubber, I'm glue, anything you say bounces off and sticks to you" trick they did in grade school. Not one sentence did I say "ALL their hands are clean"... I was specifically speaking of the Muslim brothers I fought side-by-side with that died serving their country. Their "countrymen" are you and me... along with other Americans. They might have been Muslim but they are still American who paid the ultimate sacrifice so that some people can be bigots and think they are trying to kill all Americans/unbelievers. There are Muslims and Christians who "abuse women and children"... If you're going to judge, judge a personal individually and not collectively. Not all Christians agree with each other and not all Muslims agree with each other. Ignorant people say "well if there are good Muslims they need to rise up and speak out against the extremists"... No kidding... There are Muslims who do more than just "speak out"... they lay down their life to stop any force of evil, yes... even radical Islamics. This "non-existent good Muslim" talk is pure trash.
Click to expand...
What's unfortunate is many if not all "good muslims' who lay down their lives deny Christ is the son of God. While I respect their sacrifice the scriptures tells us of those who deny Jesus. Its true not all christians agree with eachother but the majority acknowledge Christ is the only way. While the majority of muslims I have spoken to dont accept Christ for salvation
 
Smoke

Smoke

Senior Member
#51
Oct 27, 2016
1,434
477
83
#51
Sirk said:
he didn't say they ALL were. Talk about presuming.
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Post #19 directed to Tanakh
Tommy379 said:
First, all muslims are evil cowards, second the US was there to kill some known terrorist and collect intel, third, all muslims want all who are not muslim dead, so it affects us too.

I see St. George's closs above your name, and you are on a Christian forum, so I can assume the muslims want you dead too.
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Then p+rehbein brings up that there are Muslims fighting in this country so he can make blanketed statements about “all Muslims”…
Tommy379 said:
They are patient warriors, infiltrating our society, just waiting to strike.
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So… was I presuming or do I need to provide the definition of the word so you know what it means?
 
Utah

Utah

Banned
#52
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#52
Tommy379 said:
Would you say that to my face?
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Go easy, my brother, he's not worth it. You're a great brother in Christ, an American patriot and one of the best family members here on CC. Don't get yourself tripped up and banned because of him.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Senior Member
#53
Oct 27, 2016
1,434
477
83
#53
Willie-T said:
The "absurd" thing is to have the ability to (as best we can) 'vet' people (all people) coming into this country from nations where their religion tells them we are already enemies.... and to just ignore that line of defense.
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I'm not arguing against that... This, one again, has nothing to do with Tommy's blanketed statement of "all Muslims". The only part I was speaking about. I wasn't even talking about foreign Muslims... but about American Muslims who serve their country... die protecting unbelievers of their religion... only to be accused of just patiently waiting to have the unbelievers killed.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#54
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#54
Smoke said:
It would be sort of hard to ask the ones who paid the ultimate sacrifice... they died fighting radical Islamic terrorists after all. As for the surviving Muslims, I'm not sure. I've only 3 good Muslim vets I keep in contact with and we don't talk about religion much. I know they disagree with radical Islamics... they disagree with certain doctrine... In that sense, I see a parallel with Christianity. We have gays who think they can be actively Christian and gay... then we have Christians who say "No, it's an abomination..."

It's all rather moot though... if a Muslim sacrifices his life to save an unbeliever, how then can we accuse him/her of being a "patient warrior" waiting to strike down the unbeliever? It's absurd.
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Are you noticing that right here in your own post, you are suggesting that the incoming people should explain what they do, and what they do not, believe about their religion of Islam? You even said you consider them "good" if you and they both agree on certain points of their religion.

Yet, you want to protest our government trying to do that very thing.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Senior Member
#55
Oct 27, 2016
1,434
477
83
#55
There's too much deflection going on the topic I'm discussing... Apparently "all Muslims are evil cowards" isn't a blanketed statement... Apparently the Muslims who fought to protect Americans are really wanting to kill their unbelieving countrymen... Welp, lets go back to talking about radical Islamics and ignore the other Muslims.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Senior Member
#56
Oct 27, 2016
1,434
477
83
#56
Willie-T said:
Are you noticing that right here in your own post, you are suggesting that the incoming people should explain what they do, and what they do not, believe about their religion of Islam? You even said you consider them "good" if you and they both agree on certain points of their religion.

Yet, you want to protest our government trying to do that very thing.
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Nah, deflection. I don't protest any of what Trump is doing in terms of his temporary ban. It's not a ban on Muslims. I'm not even talking about the subject...

I'll repeat myself as often as I need to... I'm - talking - about - Tommy's - blanket - statement - about - all - muslims - being - evil - and - patient - warriors... I - am - not - speaking - out - against- Trump - and - his - temporary - ban -, I'm - just - speaking - out - against - ignorant - bigots - who - think - all - Muslims - want - unbelievers - to - die... even - the - ones - who - died - protecting - the - country - they - live - in.
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#57
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
112
0
#57
Smoke said:
You can't inaccurately infer what I'm saying ("you're acting like...") and then accuse me of making a blanketed statement. That's like the "you're rubber, I'm glue, anything you say bounces off and sticks to you" trick they did in grade school. Not one sentence did I say "ALL their hands are clean"... I was specifically speaking of the Muslim brothers I fought side-by-side with that died serving their country. Their "countrymen" are you and me... along with other Americans. They might have been Muslim but they are still American who paid the ultimate sacrifice so that some people can be bigots and think they are trying to kill all Americans/unbelievers.

There are Muslims and Christians who "abuse women and children"... If you're going to judge, judge a personal individually and not collectively. Not all Christians agree with each other and not all Muslims agree with each other.

Ignorant people say "well if there are good Muslims they need to rise up and speak out against the extremists"... No kidding... There are Muslims who do more than just "speak out"... they lay down their life to stop any force of evil, yes... even radical Islamics. This "non-existent good Muslim" talk is pure trash.
Click to expand...
If there was an influx of white supremists coming over from Sweden I'd be calling for them to be looked at closely as well. You make this about race or religion when it's just plain common sense that Islam is an enemy of the west and needs to be defeated. And all this sissy pants obfuscation by you liberal do gooders is just gonna get more people killed.

And good for them. The men should stand up...and we should help them. Committing suicide isn't helping them.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Senior Member
#58
Oct 27, 2016
1,434
477
83
#58
PrynceNY said:
What's unfortunate is many if not all "good muslims' who lay down their lives deny Christ is the son of God. While I respect their sacrifice the scriptures tells us of those who deny Jesus. Its true not all christians agree with eachother but the majority acknowledge Christ is the only way. While the majority of muslims I have spoken to dont accept Christ for salvation
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It is unfortunate. I wish they did accept Christ as their Savior. However, this is a completely different discussion. There's a slight difference between a Muslim not being a Christian (not accepting Christ as their Savior) and "all Muslims" being evil cowards who patiently wait to kill all the unbelievers.
 
Sirk

Sirk

Banned
#59
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
112
0
#59
Smoke said:
Nah, deflection. I don't protest any of what Trump is doing in terms of his temporary ban. It's not a ban on Muslims. I'm not even talking about the subject...

I'll repeat myself as often as I need to... I'm - talking - about - Tommy's - blanket - statement - about - all - muslims - being - evil - and - patient - warriors... I - am - not - speaking - out - against- Trump - and - his - temporary - ban -, I'm - just - speaking - out - against - ignorant - bigots - who - think - all - Muslims - want - unbelievers - to - die... even - the - ones - who - died - protecting - the - country - they - live - in.
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He say that didn't. He said "Muslims are patient warriors". I don't see the the word "all" or every single one. You just heard what you wanted to hear and are now on some holier than thou mission to be the "tolerant" one.

I can't speak for tommy but the element of Islam that wants to destroy you is patient...and even smarter than you obviously.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Senior Member
#60
Oct 27, 2016
1,434
477
83
#60
Sirk said:
If there was an influx of white supremists coming over from Sweden I'd be calling for them to be looked at closely as well. You make this about race or religion when it's just plain common sense that Islam is an enemy of the west and needs to be defeated. And all this sissy pants obfuscation by you liberal do gooders is just gonna get more people killed.

And good for them. The men should stand up...and we should help them. Committing suicide isn't helping them.
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Hahahaha, me being a liberal do gooder... that's cute. Everything you said about vetting is irrelevant to what I've said about Muslims. It's as if because I believe there are Muslims who DON'T want to kill unbelievers, I am suddenly against Trump's "extreme vetting" and I'm against Trump's temporary ban... Oh, and it makes me a liberal too. I have to be an ignorant bigot or I am a liberal who wants radical Islamic refuges.
 
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