AMERICAN HEALTH CARE ACT

[maxwel]

It astounds me how far satan has sown greed into the deepest parts of even the elect.

It astounds me that Christians would believe in Marx...
a man WHO'S THEORIES NECESSITATE ALL REMOVAL OF RELIGION and CHRISTIANS.


Getting rid of religion, is one of the embedded, core tenets, of Marxism.

Forcing atheism, is one of the embedded, core tenets, of Marxism.



That should GIVE YOU A CLUE that there's something wrong with his theories.

 

[Sirk]

Ricky just won the debate cuz God said he's right. See ya.

 

[RickyZ]

No. Ricky grieves because believers deny what God says about riches and treating workers fairly.

 

[Sirk]

No. Ricky grieves because believers deny what God says about riches and treating workers fairly.

Ricky is taking liberties in his assessment about the hearts of men he knows nothing about. About men who have employees. Ricky is also defending marxist principles.

 

[Tommy379]

No. Ricky grieves because believers deny what God says about riches and treating workers fairly.

Who is not being treated fairly? Wealth and greed are not the same.

 

[Monnkai]

Since I'm always worrying about stuff and I just heard about this from a friend, I fear it may affect my disability checks which is provided by the state. Which is a separate thing I know. But the worst part is I heard that it doesn't cover generic medicine only name brand big pharma stuff. I can't afford that. I need the meds so I don't die from horrible lung problems. I also here it doesn't cover cancer and mental health. What kind of sick person would propose such a bill?

 

[Miri]

You start a company. You hire workers to produce corporate income. Those workers have no right to a share of the income they produce for you. You have a right to all of the fruit of their labor. Even tho without their labor you would have no income.

Yeppers. You've read too much Ronald Reagan.

Like I said, people will fight to the death - and these days it's often a literal death - for their right to treat and be treated like slaves.

Interesting......I use to work for a company, where one year they decided against pay rises.
Instead they set up a system where each employee could trade their pay rise for a percentage
of sales the company made that year. It was a very small percentage and there were certain tax
benefits to the company for setting up this scheme.

The result was that all the employees who took part, worked a lot harder as they had a vested
interest in the success of the business. I didn't take part as I was looking for another job at the
time and I left after a few months. So I never got to know how it worked out.
It definitely increased employee loyalty though.

They had other tax doges (or were they incentives it's hard to know the difference ).
Where at Christmas, they put varying amounts of money in sealed envelopes, than at
the end of the working day, every employee pulled out an envelope.

No one knew how much was in each. But one year the new office junior ended up getting a
Christmas bonus of £400!

Because the company didn't know who got what, they didn't have to pay taxes on it!
For the staff it was a lucky dip and everyone had an equal chance at the higher value
envelopes. No one felt out done or favoured above another. It was all done in good humour.

 

[maxwel]

Since I'm always worrying about stuff and I just heard about this from a friend, I fear it may affect my disability checks which is provided by the state. Which is a separate thing I know. But the worst part is I heard that it doesn't cover generic medicine only name brand big pharma stuff. I can't afford that. I need the meds so I don't die from horrible lung problems. I also here it doesn't cover cancer and mental health. What kind of sick person would propose such a bill?

1. People on both sides are saying all kinds of things... that doesn't necessarily make them true.

2. There are revisions of the bill, and other versions of things... nothing has been passed yet.

3. It isn't over yet... so we still have no idea what we've got.

 

[wsblind]

No. Ricky grieves because believers deny what God says about riches and treating workers fairly.

There are more people who are poor who LOVE money than there are wealthy people who love money.

The poor me, poor person who thinks he never has enough and always wants more......even if that means STEALING from those who have more. Are in a worse spot than those who they judge and condemn for having a lot.

The me,me,me person is willing to pretty much do anything to "get theirs."

This is why they remain poor. They can't even handle being poor, let alone handle prosperity.

That "poor me person" would eat/beat/put in bondage everyone in his periphery if he had prosperity. It would never be enough. He never gained the capacity to be content in little, He will be a tyrant with much.

 

[Miri]

There are more people who are poor who LOVE money than there are wealthy people who love money.

The poor me, poor person who thinks he never has enough and always wants more......even if that means STEALING from those who have more. Are in a worse spot than those who they judge and condemn for having a lot.

The me,me,me person is willing to pretty much do anything to "get theirs."

This is why they remain poor. They can't even handle being poor, let alone handle prosperity.

That "poor me person" would eat/beat/put in bondage everyone in his periphery if he had prosperity. It would never be enough. He never gained the capacity to be content in little, He will be a tyrant with much.

Or could it be that some people are just born into privilege and wealth and don't have a
clue about the reality of poverty.

An extreme example I know, but take a look at this.


Joan Collins claims she 'isn't exactly wealthy' | Daily Mail Online

 

[wsblind]

James 5:1Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. 6You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.








Keep in mind, these are GOD'S words, not mine. Any argument you have with them is with God, not me.

Keep in mind, those words apply to YOU. Not just everyone else.

 

[RickyZ]

Keep in mind, those words apply to YOU. Not just everyone else.

Like God's word, they apply to all of us. It just seems like I'm the only one listening to them.

 

[Sirk]

Like God's word, they apply to all of us. It just seems like I'm the only one listening to them.

Please enlighten us as to how you are the "only one" listening to them. And be specific. Thats quite the lofty statement you just made.

 

[RickyZ]

Because I'm the only one here who believes that if an employee puts in an honest days work and helps make his company a profit, then that employee should be treated as a valuable asset and rewarded some of that profit in the form of a living wage, instead being treated as a worthless slave like the rest of you money hoarders do.

That's it. I'm done with this thread, and most likely this site. Far too many unchristian chatters here.

 

[Sirk]

Because I'm the only one here who believes that if an employee puts in an honest days work and helps make his company a profit, then that employee should be treated as a valuable asset and rewarded some of that profit in the form of a living wage, instead being treated as a worthless slave like the rest of you money hoarders do.

That's it. I'm done with this thread, and most likely this site. Far too many unchristian chatters here.

best of luck to ya. I hope when you find your marxist utopia it is far far away from me.
You might wanna take a gander at some of these cognitive thinking errors tho.

https://psychcentral.com/lib/15-common-cognitive-distortions/

 

[renewed_hope]

I think this went too far out of hand and I believe everyone who has participated is responsible for the behavior that has been displayed and I am embarrassed because people look around and expect to see how Christians communicate and this is what they see?

Now, I can see both sides of the equation here. Owners of a business should be the only ones who should have any say in how to allocate their funds unless they have stockholders who help with that and in no way is an employee to have any say about investments or the like. However, management needs to show how valuable their employees are to them and the company because they will find something that will scratch their itch of being appreciated. If this happens not only do they have to hire someone else, but they lose time and money. Yes, they could hire someone who has done this job before for lets say 30 years, but there is still training that takes place and that costs time and money to do and it creates a low morale that any business owner should not be proud of. I came from a business that thought everyone can be replaced, mistreated, unappreciated, and so much more. I got tired of it and so did many other people. Last year alone more than 150 employees quit and there have been some positions that have laid empty for months because no one wants to work for them. If you were a business owner would you want people to say this about you? Employees need to feel like they hold value to companies or be an asset to them and there is no monetary value that can pay them enough for that....and that is what people really want to find

 

[maxwel]

You start a company. You hire workers to produce corporate income. Those workers have no right to a share of the income they produce for you. You have a right to all of the fruit of their labor. Even tho without their labor you would have no income.

Yeppers. You've read too much Ronald Reagan.

Like I said, people will fight to the death - and these days it's often a literal death - for their right to treat and be treated like slaves.

Without my employees I would have ZERO income...
therefore I OWE them more than the wage we agree on?


This has so many fallacies, I don't know where to begin.



1. I do not NEED employees to have income... I can have income with ZERO EMPLOYEES.

A. I can run my business differently, WITHOUT any employees.
B. I can close my business, and start a new business which doesn't require employees.
C. I can close my business, and just work for someone else.


2. If I can have income with ZERO employees... why would I choose the HORRENDOUS HEADACHES of managing employees?

HEADACHES:
A. Managing employees takes a huge amount of time.
B. Managing employees takes time away from my personal life.
C. Managing employees is full of grief, and headache, and problems... it is NOT fun.
D. Managing employees opens me to possibilities of frivolous liabilities and lawsuits.
E. Managing employees opens me up to THEIR sin and abuse... as some will lie, cheat, and steal, etc. etc.
F. Managing employees means I have to deal with all of their personal problems, which are ENDLESS, and often SELF INFLICTED.
G. Managing employees requires tons of endless paperwork: accounting, taxes, insurance... and on and on.
H. Managing employees means I have to actually OVERSEE everything they do, and waste my time checking all their work... because in a fallen world some people lie, cheat, steal, and do as poor a job as possible.
I. Managing employees means I AM LIABLE for anything illegal they do which I don't know about.
J. Managing employees means I AM LIABLE for any POOR WORK THEY DO, which ruins a job, or upsets a client, or destroys resources.
K. Managing employees means I have to waste enormous amounts of time training them and retraining them.

THE LIST OF HEADACHES GOES ON AND ON!

Why even hire people... why hire people and have all these headaches?


3. There are only 2 reasons to hire people... 2 reasons which are BEAUTIFULLY COMPLIMENTARY.

A. I get the personal & spiritual satisfaction of giving people an income... to help people to live.

B. I get to INCREASE MY PROFIT... IN EXCHANGE... FOR ALL THE ADDED HEADACHE.


4. Now let's address your statement that I want "the right to all the fruit of their labor."

A. The fruit of their labor is an AGREED WAGE... a wage they FREELY AGREE TO... therefore I am, in no way, withholding the fruit of their labor.

B. They AGREE on this wage.... THEY AGREE WHAT THE FRUIT OF THEIR LABOR WILL BE!

C. Let's reiterate that: THEY AGREE WHAT THE FRUIT OF THEIR LABOR WILL BE... AND THUS HELP DETERMINE IT.

D. If you MAKE AN AGREEMENT ON THE FRUIT OF YOUR LABOR, then YOU HAD EQUAL SAY IN DETERMINING IT.

* If you agree upon what the fruit of your labor should be, you have participated in determining it.
* If you agree upon your wage, you have participated in determining it.


5. If YOU AGREE to a wage... then you have PARTICIPATED in DETERMINING YOUR WAGE.

* In a free society, you aren't a slave... you can ask for more, or work somewhere else.

* You are free to:

a. negotiate for a higher wage
b. go work somewhere else
c. start your own business
d. gain more experience in order to be worth more in the workplace.
e. get more education in order to be worth more in the workplace.

* You are not a slave... you are free to ask for the compensation you wish, or go elsewhere, or start your own business.


6. It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to give anyone LESS than the FRUIT OF HIS LABOR WHICH HE DEMANDS!

A. If someone demands $20/hour, I have no way to make him take less.
B. If someone demands $50/hour, I have no way to make him take less.
C. If someone demands $100/hour, I hae no way to make him take less.

* BOTH PARTIES MUST AGREE... I CANNOT give someone less than what he demands.


7. If hiring employees increases my HEADACHES, increases all my LEGAL LIABILITIES, increases my WORKING HOURS, and DECREASES MY PERSONAL TIME... but does NOT INCREASE PROFITS... why would I hire anyone?

A. I would not.

B. Neither would anyone else.


8. If I hire employees, and pay them ALL THE PROFIT I MAKE FROM HIRING THEM, how will my business grow, so that they have a RELIABLE FUTURE JOB?

A. It cannot.

B. If there isn't enough profit for the business to grow, the employee doesn't have a reliable future job.

C. Making the business enough profit to grow the business... this gives the employee stability for his own future.




Basically Ricky,
every time you speak about business,
you say so many wrong things in each sentence,
it's almost impossible to even explain it all.

You're clearly a very nice guy,
with a big heart,
who knows absolutely nothing about business or economics.

 

[maxwel]

Because I'm the only one here who believes that if an employee puts in an honest days work and helps make his company a profit, then that employee should be treated as a valuable asset and rewarded some of that profit in the form of a living wage, instead being treated as a worthless slave like the rest of you money hoarders do.

That's it. I'm done with this thread, and most likely this site. Far too many unchristian chatters here.

Worthless slave?


Your Marxist assumptions are utterly insane.


You assume that if I hire someone, and make a small profit off his labor...

he is "being treating as a worthless slave?"

Seriously?




I'm a slave owner for giving someone a job?

Really?

What world do you live in?




Have you ever started a successful business?

Have you ever started a business, and hired people, and trained them, and managed them, and done all the accounting and taxes and insurance, and held their hand through all their personal problems, and visited their kids when they were sick, and loaned them money when they were in need?

Have you ever run a business and done these things?

No.
Of course not.
You haven't done any of these things.
But I'm evil and greedy... for running a business... and giving people jobs.



I don't care how mad you get.
I'm not going to let this Marxist hogwash denigrate every decent businessman who's ever tried to create jobs.

 

[Sirk]

I think this went too far out of hand and I believe everyone who has participated is responsible for the behavior that has been displayed and I am embarrassed because people look around and expect to see how Christians communicate and this is what they see?

Now, I can see both sides of the equation here. Owners of a business should be the only ones who should have any say in how to allocate their funds unless they have stockholders who help with that and in no way is an employee to have any say about investments or the like. However, management needs to show how valuable their employees are to them and the company because they will find something that will scratch their itch of being appreciated. If this happens not only do they have to hire someone else, but they lose time and money. Yes, they could hire someone who has done this job before for lets say 30 years, but there is still training that takes place and that costs time and money to do and it creates a low morale that any business owner should not be proud of. I came from a business that thought everyone can be replaced, mistreated, unappreciated, and so much more. I got tired of it and so did many other people. Last year alone more than 150 employees quit and there have been some positions that have laid empty for months because no one wants to work for them. If you were a business owner would you want people to say this about you? Employees need to feel like they hold value to companies or be an asset to them and there is no monetary value that can pay them enough for that....and that is what people really want to find[/QUOTE.

You got people on every corner of this sight yelling every day how they are better Christians than everyone else for a whole host of nonsensical reasons.

 

[renewed_hope]

You got people on every corner of this sight yelling every day how they are better Christians than everyone else for a whole host of nonsensical reasons.

Im a little disappointed by this and I think I am done posting anything. I wish you the best