Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 140
Like Tree106Likes

Christian News Forum

Share the latest news (world news, local news, current events, etc.) with your Christian friends right here, and give or get a Christian perspective on it.

Thread: Free speech under threat in the West

  1. #101
    Senior Member Dude653's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 19th, 2011
    Age
    42
    Posts
    6,994
    Rep Power
    43

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Did you read the post? Didn't have anything to do with emotions. This country was founded on Judeo/Christian laws. Just because a man now wants to be a woman should not mean the laws change to suit them. I my believe Im an elephant doesn't mean I should get tax free peanuts. The law doesn't change because people change their minds. Therefore that is the difference between a republic and a democracy.
    Who's asking for tax-free peanuts? You know who does get tax free peanuts? Mega churches
    oldethennew likes this.
    I am the one who knocks!

  2. #102
    Banned
    Join Date
    March 2nd, 2016
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,896
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Just a little lesson on democracy vs a republic. America is not to be ruled by feelings or mob rule. Its not about whats popular now.

    Quote "O]ur citizens should early understand that the genuine source ofA pure democracy operates by direct majority vote of the people.When an issue is to be decided, the entire population votes on it; the majority
    wins and rules. A republic differs in that the general population elects representatives
    who then pass laws to govern the nation. A democracy is the rule by majority feeling
    (what the Founders described as a “mobocracy” 12); a republic is rule
    by law. If the source of law for a democracy is the popular feeling of the people,
    then what is the source of law for the American republic? According to Founder
    Noah Webster:
    correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament,
    or the Christian religion.


    The transcendent values of Biblical natural law were the foundation of the American
    republic. Consider the stability this provides: in our republic, murder will always
    be a crime, for it is always a crime according to the Word of God. however, in
    a democracy, if majority of the people decide that murder is no longer a crime,
    murder will no longer be a crime.
    America’s immutable principles of right and
    wrong were not based on the rapidly fluctuating feelings and emotions of the people
    but rather on what Montesquieu identified as the “principles that do not change.”14
    Benjamin Rush similarly observed.

    [W]here there is no law, there is no liberty; and nothing deserves
    the name of law but that which is certain and universal in its operation upon
    all the members of the community.


    From Wall Builders.com
    ha! And the same people think truth is determined by democracy. Lol
    dcontroversal, kaylagrl and OwzK like this.

  3. #103
    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 18th, 2014
    Age
    45
    Posts
    10,969
    Rep Power
    186

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    Who's asking for tax-free peanuts? You know who does get tax free peanuts? Mega churches
    You know what? I actually looked up why churches became tax free and it was because they helped the poor,had orphanages,had outreaches. But you know what,when I was in ministry I knew of churches that had million dollar bank rolls.To me thats wrong and they should not be tax free.
    Sully likes this.

  4. #104
    Sully
    Guest

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    You know what? I actually looked up why churches became tax free and it was because they helped the poor,had orphanages,had outreaches. But you know what,when I was in ministry I knew of churches that had million dollar bank rolls.To me thats wrong and they should not be tax free.
    I believe the same exemption applies to non mega type churches as well...

  5. #105


    CS1
    CS1 is offline
    Moderator CS1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 23rd, 2012
    Age
    51
    Posts
    1,523
    Rep Power
    27

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    Who's asking for tax-free peanuts? You know who does get tax free peanuts? Mega churches
    churches

    never had an issue of taxes until LBJ got all bent hurt over losing Evangelical support so created a tax for churchs not to help them but to control them. Pastors are not at liberty to support any political party , if they do they lose the Tax exemption status . No church should be taxed. the money they get has already BEEN TAXED ONCE
    longtrekker likes this.
    it Don't mean a thing if you an't got the King

  6. #106
    Senior Member Smoke's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 27th, 2016
    Age
    34
    Posts
    290
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by CS1 View Post
    churches

    never had an issue of taxes until LBJ got all bent hurt over losing Evangelical support so created a tax for churchs not to help them but to control them. Pastors are not at liberty to support any political party , if they do they lose the Tax exemption status . No church should be taxed. the money they get has already BEEN TAXED ONCE
    The money I've earned was already taxed, but when I buy a home I still have to pay taxes on it and the property. It would be nice to not pay property taxes... but if I have to, why shouldn't a church?

  7. #107
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18th, 2013
    Age
    42
    Posts
    6,027
    Rep Power
    105

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
    The money I've earned was already taxed, but when I buy a home I still have to pay taxes on it and the property. It would be nice to not pay property taxes... but if I have to, why shouldn't a church?
    That's a valid opinion, and we all have a right to complain, demonstrate, pester our congressmen, etc..

    However, there are plenty of decent churches, and christian schools (like seminaries), that use the savings to operate and do needful and legitimate things.



    If you want to see churches have less money to operate, you are free to voice dissent and take political action.

  8. #108
    Senior Member Dude653's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 19th, 2011
    Age
    42
    Posts
    6,994
    Rep Power
    43

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    TD Jake's charges 30 thousand just to show up.....
    I am the one who knocks!

  9. #109
    Banned
    Join Date
    March 2nd, 2016
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,896
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    That's a valid opinion, and we all have a right to complain, demonstrate, pester our congressmen, etc..

    However, there are plenty of decent churches, and christian schools (like seminaries), that use the savings to operate and do needful and legitimate things.



    If you want to see churches have less money to operate, you are free to voice dissent and take political action.
    The rub for me is the very lucrative salaries I've seen staff members of a church receive.
    Smoke likes this.

  10. #110
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18th, 2013
    Age
    42
    Posts
    6,027
    Rep Power
    105

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirk View Post
    The rub for me is the very lucrative salaries I've seen staff members of a church receive.
    Perhaps the solution is just to deal with those ABUSING the church tax exemption...

    instead of complaining about the tax exemption itself.


    If churches lose tax exemption, then all the churches get hurt....
    the good ones along with the bad ones.
    Sirk likes this.

  11. #111
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18th, 2013
    Age
    42
    Posts
    6,027
    Rep Power
    105

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    BTW... one day the atheists, and the liberal Christians, WILL get tax exemptions removed for religious organizations.

    When that happens, virtually all seminaries will down overnight..
    because they can never afford to pay the huge property taxes on a big campus.

    The atheists will be very happy to shut down all the Christian colleges and seminaries.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    This tax thing is a pretty serious deal.

  12. #112
    Senior Member Dude653's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 19th, 2011
    Age
    42
    Posts
    6,994
    Rep Power
    43

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    A lot of preachers are making an obscene amount of money. All tax free
    I am the one who knocks!

  13. #113
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18th, 2013
    Age
    42
    Posts
    6,027
    Rep Power
    105

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    A lot of preachers are making an obscene amount of money. All tax free
    I realize there are con men, calling themselves preachers, who make millions... from conning people.
    I realize that.

    But let's take a different direction, and examine a totally different issue.

    Let's examine something completely different for a moment.



    How much should a human, any human, be allowed to earn?

    Dude, let's set your own salary as the baseline, whatever it is.
    Let's call your salary "x."
    How much more than "x" should any human be allowed to earn?
    How much more than YOU should any human be allowed to earn?

  14. #114
    Senior Member Smoke's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 27th, 2016
    Age
    34
    Posts
    290
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    That's a valid opinion, and we all have a right to complain, demonstrate, pester our congressmen, etc..

    However, there are plenty of decent churches, and christian schools (like seminaries), that use the savings to operate and do needful and legitimate things.



    If you want to see churches have less money to operate, you are free to voice dissent and take political action.
    It's interesting how you word it. "If [I] want to see churches have less money to operate..." ... It's not that I specifically "want them to have less money to operate", no more than "I want other families in the US to have less money to operate"... I simply believe everyone should be paying property taxes or no one at all. I don't think consistency under a law is a bad thing... I think it's a very GOOD thing.

    Furthermore, it's none of my business what any church does with their funds. If they want to buy property on a very desirable piece of property... if they want to build an intricate architectural masterpiece of a building... if they want to pay their ministers 6-digit incomes... if they want to help the community and/or youth, etc... it's absolutely NONE of my business and it should not be the governments business as well. I believe they should be able to do their thing while also paying taxes just like everyone else.

  15. #115
    Senior Member Smoke's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 27th, 2016
    Age
    34
    Posts
    290
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    Perhaps the solution is just to deal with those ABUSING the church tax exemption...

    instead of complaining about the tax exemption itself.


    If churches lose tax exemption, then all the churches get hurt....
    the good ones along with the bad ones.
    Who defines what is "abusing"? How much do you think a pastor ought to make to avoid being on the "abuse" side of the pay scale?

    See, I think a pastor should be able to make 6-digits if a church wants/is capable of paying him/her that. However, I personally don't think a pastor's work is deserving of 6-digits nor would I willingly donate money to a church that paid their pastors that much. With tax exemption status, the government/the people are basically subsidizing every church to be able to pay their pastors so handsomely. I strongly disagree with that, even if they do good deeds in the community. I know plenty of people who do good deeds with the funds they make but still have to pay taxes (and rightfully so).

  16. #116
    Senior Member Smoke's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 27th, 2016
    Age
    34
    Posts
    290
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    BTW... one day the atheists, and the liberal Christians, WILL get tax exemptions removed for religious organizations.

    When that happens, virtually all seminaries will down overnight..
    because they can never afford to pay the huge property taxes on a big campus.

    The atheists will be very happy to shut down all the Christian colleges and seminaries.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    This tax thing is a pretty serious deal.
    I believe if that did happen, it wouldn't be implemented all at once. I would hope it would be given a period of time to start subsidizing their own ministry. Maybe they give them x amount of years or they pay a small percentage every year, increasing every year until they are paying 100% of what they should have been paying to begin with.

    Nevertheless, it shouldn't have ever happened honestly. We made churches dependent on the government/the people to subsidize their property...

  17. #117
    Banned
    Join Date
    March 2nd, 2016
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,896
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    Perhaps the solution is just to deal with those ABUSING the church tax exemption...

    instead of complaining about the tax exemption itself.


    If churches lose tax exemption, then all the churches get hurt....
    the good ones along with the bad ones.
    I think they need to get rid of 501c3 all together as part of getting rid of the tax code. Flat tax baby.

  18. #118
    Senior Member maxwel's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18th, 2013
    Age
    42
    Posts
    6,027
    Rep Power
    105

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
    It's interesting how you word it. "If [I] want to see churches have less money to operate..." ... It's not that I specifically "want them to have less money to operate", no more than "I want other families in the US to have less money to operate"... I simply believe everyone should be paying property taxes or no one at all. I don't think consistency under a law is a bad thing... I think it's a very GOOD thing.

    Furthermore, it's none of my business what any church does with their funds. If they want to buy property on a very desirable piece of property... if they want to build an intricate architectural masterpiece of a building... if they want to pay their ministers 6-digit incomes... if they want to help the community and/or youth, etc... it's absolutely NONE of my business and it should not be the governments business as well. I believe they should be able to do their thing while also paying taxes just like everyone else.

    Consistency

    If you want consistency, then perhaps we should begin by halting our comparison of apples with oranges.



    Let's talk about consistency.

    You are talking about YOUR tax rights, as an individual person, COMPARED TO the tax rights of a NON-PROFIT CORPORATION, which is NOT an individual person.

    If you want consistency, then you need to say that you, as an individual, should have the exact rights, and burdens, as a non-profit corporation.

    Ok, let's examine that.

    For that, we have to change MUCH in our legal system... as individuals are NOT by nature corporations, and even more specifically, individuals are not non-profit corporations. There are many reasons our legal system allows for the creation of various types of corporations. A corporation is a very specific type of legal business entity, and we have many laws which make this entity different than an individual. (Not to mention the fact that from pure logic, regardless of law, a business is simply NOT a person... it is in a different category of being.)

    Now, if you want to be exactly the same as a corporation, and specifically a non-profit corporation, then you need to change much more than just tax laws. You need to overhaul the entire economy, along with the legal structure of all businesses. If you want to overhaul the economy, and legal structure of all businesses... that's fine with me. Go right ahead. It's a big job, you best get started.

    So, here's what we've got:
    1. A human cannot actually be a corporation, as this is a categorical error... you are a person, not a business, the two are not the same. They are different categories of being. Just as you cannot be a fish, or door, or a sun beam.
    2. If you want to have the same RIGHTS & BURDENS as a corporation, then you would need to change more than just tax laws, you need to change the entire economy, and legal structure of all business.

    As I said above, if you want to change the entire economy, and the legal structure of all business... best get busy.

    God Bless.
    Sirk likes this.

  19. #119
    Banned
    Join Date
    March 2nd, 2016
    Age
    45
    Posts
    8,896
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    Consistency

    If you want consistency, then perhaps we should begin by halting our comparison of apples with oranges.



    Let's talk about consistency.

    You are talking about YOUR tax rights, as an individual person, COMPARED TO the tax rights of a NON-PROFIT CORPORATION, which is NOT an individual person.

    If you want consistency, then you need to say that you, as an individual, should have the exact rights, and burdens, as a non-profit corporation.

    Ok, let's examine that.

    For that, we have to change MUCH in our legal system... as individuals are NOT by nature corporations, and even more specifically, individuals are not non-profit corporations. There are many reasons our legal system allows for the creation of various types of corporations. A corporation is a very specific type of legal business entity, and we have many laws which make this entity different than an individual. (Not to mention the fact that from pure logic, regardless of law, a business is simply NOT a person... it is in a different category of being.)

    Now, if you want to be exactly the same as a corporation, and specifically a non-profit corporation, then you need to change much more than just tax laws. You need to overhaul the entire economy, along with the legal structure of all businesses. If you want to overhaul the economy, and legal structure of all businesses... that's fine with me. Go right ahead. It's a big job, you best get started.

    So, here's what we've got:
    1. A human cannot actually be a corporation, as this is a categorical error... you are a person, not a business, the two are not the same. They are different categories of being. Just as you cannot be a fish, or door, or a sun beam.
    2. If you want to have the same RIGHTS & BURDENS as a corporation, then you would need to change more than just tax laws, you need to change the entire economy, and legal structure of all business.

    As I said above, if you want to change the entire economy, and the legal structure of all business... best get busy.

    God Bless.
    this is the nature of govt by men. Become too big to fail. Imagine all the unlemployed accountants, tax preparers and IRS employees out of work by getting rid of the monstrosity that is the tax code. And that's just tip of the iceberg.

  20. #120
    Senior Member Smoke's Avatar
    Join Date
    October 27th, 2016
    Age
    34
    Posts
    290
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Free speech under threat in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwel View Post
    Consistency

    If you want consistency, then perhaps we should begin by halting our comparison of apples with oranges.



    Let's talk about consistency.

    You are talking about YOUR tax rights, as an individual person, COMPARED TO the tax rights of a NON-PROFIT CORPORATION, which is NOT an individual person.

    If you want consistency, then you need to say that you, as an individual, should have the exact rights, and burdens, as a non-profit corporation.

    Ok, let's examine that.

    For that, we have to change MUCH in our legal system... as individuals are NOT by nature corporations, and even more specifically, individuals are not non-profit corporations. There are many reasons our legal system allows for the creation of various types of corporations. A corporation is a very specific type of legal business entity, and we have many laws which make this entity different than an individual. (Not to mention the fact that from pure logic, regardless of law, a business is simply NOT a person... it is in a different category of being.)

    Now, if you want to be exactly the same as a corporation, and specifically a non-profit corporation, then you need to change much more than just tax laws. You need to overhaul the entire economy, along with the legal structure of all businesses. If you want to overhaul the economy, and legal structure of all businesses... that's fine with me. Go right ahead. It's a big job, you best get started.

    So, here's what we've got:
    1. A human cannot actually be a corporation, as this is a categorical error... you are a person, not a business, the two are not the same. They are different categories of being. Just as you cannot be a fish, or door, or a sun beam.
    2. If you want to have the same RIGHTS & BURDENS as a corporation, then you would need to change more than just tax laws, you need to change the entire economy, and legal structure of all business.

    As I said above, if you want to change the entire economy, and the legal structure of all business... best get busy.

    God Bless.
    You make a fair point about a "corporation" and a private individual. I also agree, we would need to change a lot of current law to accommodate my ideology/stance on this tax.

    However, with the principle of everyone should pay taxes or no one at all, it applies for individuals and corporations, including non-profit. I know my opinion might be frowned on, but I don't believe non-profit organizations should be exempt. I don't agree with all of them... why should we be forced to subsidize a non-profit organization we don't agree with? Can you think of any non-profit organizations you don't agree with?

    It's just my opinion that such corporations shouldn't get exemption status... If they want to be called a "corporation", then fine... I don't really care. I just care that there are double standards... even if people want to see it as "one standard for non profit corporations" and "one standard for individual citizens." I agree with a lot of libertarian ideals and just don't believe anyone should get that exemption status (corporation or citizen).

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Encryption key to free speech, says UN report
    By royalscot in forum Christian News Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: May 31st, 2015, 06:53 AM
  2. Pamela Geller: Free speech advocate, or 'hate speech' antagonist?
    By Viligant_Warrior in forum Christian News Forum
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: May 16th, 2015, 04:54 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: March 21st, 2015, 05:57 PM
  4. Obama's IRS Is Attempting To Seriously Undermine Your Free Speech
    By AgeofKnowledge in forum Christian News Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: February 28th, 2014, 08:42 PM