UK courts have sentenced a 10 month old baby to death

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,034
1,473
113
#3
This has nothing to do with socialized medicine. Medical Care is available and can be provided at no cost to the government or the British Healthcare system.

This is the result of a group of people playing God. It happens in non socialized medicine countries including the US.

We pray that God will open the eyes of those involved in this incident, and let them know that He still has control. We pray for a miracle for the child and the family.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#4
This has nothing to do with socialized medicine. Medical Care is available and can be provided at no cost to the government or the British Healthcare system.

This is the result of a group of people playing God. It happens in non socialized medicine countries including the US.

We pray that God will open the eyes of those involved in this incident, and let them know that He still has control. We pray for a miracle for the child and the family.
That is socialized medicine -- when healthcare is dictated by law. And, yes, we already have it here. Try asking someone in a VA hospital "why" and you will get, "Because that's what the regulations say." There is no one-way-fits-all in healthcare, but that's exactly what it comes down to.

You want government to run it? I'm not sure who is running it now, but got to say, no one but a very small select few will treat pain anymore. And those few who are, are doing exactly the same thing they did 40 years ago -- setting up practices to get $120 a visit to write a prescription. I want a bit more from my pain specialists, but every time I dare to ask, my primary gets a long involved letter saying a whole lot of words to tell her, "This patient is stepping on my toes." Want to know what I want? I want to find ways to delay my back from getting worse. How dare I?

Again, Democrats think everyone is naturally good, and yet add as much laws to dictate regulations as humanly possible so nothing gets done. And Republicans don't care one way or the other.

Socialized medicine.

It's even worse in the UK. We're merely warming up to catch up with them.

I truly hope Charlie can get here in hopes the experimental treatment saves his life.
 
Dec 17, 2013
822
7
0
#5
10 month sentence all the kid got ?

You know what they say man,God have a soft spot for drunks and the young.
 

Namiette

Senior Member
Feb 13, 2016
163
13
18
#6
Very heartbreaking story :( Tears are running down my cheeks... :(
I don't really understand how doctors and judges can be so heartless and not valuing and respecting human life and rights of parents. Didn't they take an oath to protect human life and to do everything they can to save one? If they did, and then they say such a thing, they are nothing more than perjurers and murderers... :(

Lord Jesus, please, forgive those people who wants the little baby to die... and give strenght to his parents, and to him.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,938
113
#7
My DIL is American. Her landed immigrant papers got held up in an Immigration strike, so she couldn't get BC health care. So my son got a job in England, and she got coverage the minute she landed in England. She had the baby there, and she said the support during and after delivery was fantastic. She said every aspect of the NHS was so much better than the fancy HMO they had been in in the US. They had no problems the year they were there.

My son said health care was better than in Canada, too! We have "socialized" medicine in Canada, and my son prefers it to what was happening in the US. But things were better in England.

As far as this baby, I do not understand how the courts could stop the parents from going elsewhere to get care. In Canada, if a treatment is not available in Canada, they pay for whatever is necessary in the US. Or, you can go and pay for it yourself, if you have money.

There are no restrictions on health care, like you have to stick to doctors and services within your HMO. I can go to any doctor, in any province. I can get tests done wherever I want. My DIL was constantly having issues with being told a lab or doctor was in her HMO, then being sent a bill, because it wasn't. Then spending months proving to her insurance they had approved it.

Meanwhile, everyone in Canada and the UK are covered totally, and millions can't afford health care in the US! Terrible system - all about making a profit, not caring for the health needs of people. This whole blanket condemnation of so-called " socialized" medicine, which in fact is properly called " universal" health care is a lie that probably comes out of those who profit from sick people! And I can assure you, doctors, nurses and others make good money in Canada, but most are not in it for the money!

I can tell you, I would rather be in Canada or England any day, than the overpriced American health care system I unfortunately had to deal with once when I got food poisoning on a trip down there! Lucky I had out of country insurance, is all I can say!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#8
Now the Ppoe and Trump are speaking up. May embarrassment win!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#9
My DIL is American. Her landed immigrant papers got held up in an Immigration strike, so she couldn't get BC health care. So my son got a job in England, and she got coverage the minute she landed in England. She had the baby there, and she said the support during and after delivery was fantastic. She said every aspect of the NHS was so much better than the fancy HMO they had been in in the US. They had no problems the year they were there.

My son said health care was better than in Canada, too! We have "socialized" medicine in Canada, and my son prefers it to what was happening in the US. But things were better in England.

As far as this baby, I do not understand how the courts could stop the parents from going elsewhere to get care. In Canada, if a treatment is not available in Canada, they pay for whatever is necessary in the US. Or, you can go and pay for it yourself, if you have money.

There are no restrictions on health care, like you have to stick to doctors and services within your HMO. I can go to any doctor, in any province. I can get tests done wherever I want. My DIL was constantly having issues with being told a lab or doctor was in her HMO, then being sent a bill, because it wasn't. Then spending months proving to her insurance they had approved it.

Meanwhile, everyone in Canada and the UK are covered totally, and millions can't afford health care in the US! Terrible system - all about making a profit, not caring for the health needs of people. This whole blanket condemnation of so-called " socialized" medicine, which in fact is properly called " universal" health care is a lie that probably comes out of those who profit from sick people! And I can assure you, doctors, nurses and others make good money in Canada, but most are not in it for the money!

I can tell you, I would rather be in Canada or England any day, than the overpriced American health care system I unfortunately had to deal with once when I got food poisoning on a trip down there! Lucky I had out of country insurance, is all I can say!
You can want your system all you want. I just want one that doesn't treat me like a lost cause. Hide me away until I died.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,586
1,047
113
#10
https://parentalrights.org/ordered-to-let-child-die/

"Sadly, there is no action we can take as an organization that would save young Charlie’s life. But we can act to keep this kind of judicial overreach from coming to our country."


got this email a few days ago; just saw it today.
this is a case of the state superseding the rights that belong to parents alone.
because the state 'is paying'. :(

may God have mercy.
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#11
Money is not the issue here. It is the court's ruling that Charlie cannot be moved. Although I'm sure Donald Trump's gesture is meant with the best of intentions the courts have stated that any additional treatment would not prolong Charlie's life and will subject him to more pain suffering. He may look happy and peaceful but his illness renders him unable to cry. It is the courts who are (arguably) at fault. It is very sad that both British and European courts sought to overrule the parents. It is the rights of parents that is being challenged and this is the most frightening aspect of this whole sorry saga. We need to continue in prayer for this little boy and his family.
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#12
My DIL is American. Her landed immigrant papers got held up in an Immigration strike, so she couldn't get BC health care. So my son got a job in England, and she got coverage the minute she landed in England. She had the baby there, and she said the support during and after delivery was fantastic. She said every aspect of the NHS was so much better than the fancy HMO they had been in in the US. They had no problems the year they were there.

My son said health care was better than in Canada, too! We have "socialized" medicine in Canada, and my son prefers it to what was happening in the US. But things were better in England.

As far as this baby, I do not understand how the courts could stop the parents from going elsewhere to get care. In Canada, if a treatment is not available in Canada, they pay for whatever is necessary in the US. Or, you can go and pay for it yourself, if you have money.

There are no restrictions on health care, like you have to stick to doctors and services within your HMO. I can go to any doctor, in any province. I can get tests done wherever I want. My DIL was constantly having issues with being told a lab or doctor was in her HMO, then being sent a bill, because it wasn't. Then spending months proving to her insurance they had approved it.

Meanwhile, everyone in Canada and the UK are covered totally, and millions can't afford health care in the US! Terrible system - all about making a profit, not caring for the health needs of people. This whole blanket condemnation of so-called " socialized" medicine, which in fact is properly called " universal" health care is a lie that probably comes out of those who profit from sick people! And I can assure you, doctors, nurses and others make good money in Canada, but most are not in it for the money!

I can tell you, I would rather be in Canada or England any day, than the overpriced American health care system I unfortunately had to deal with once when I got food poisoning on a trip down there! Lucky I had out of country insurance, is all I can say!
Our NHS (socialised healthcare) is beloved by the nation - rich and poor alike but sadly in recent years it has not done so well, in part this is because as Miri said in another thread, we have too many people from the EU and further afield abusing it, our NHS was an institution built around serving the British alone and now it seems the whole world wants to milk it and due to a succession of government refusing to fund it accordingly it has been in decline, however I have a deep mistrust of insurance companies and would not like to rely on them for healthcare.

To use Charlie's case to diss socialised healthcare is to completely miss the point. The British courts and more importantly the European Courts which have nothing to do with our government or our health care system made the ruling due to Charlie's condition alone.
 
M

Miri

Guest
#13
This is a heart breaking story and it's been in the news over here
for a while.

Unfortunately it's not a straight forward case of sick child, but treatment refused
due to cost etc.

From the news we have had over here, he can't see, breathe, swallow, blink,
react, has serious brain damage due to this rare condition and the only thing
keeping the poor mites body going, is life support. :(

Doctors wanted to with withdraw life support and let him die. The parents have
fought this in all the various levels of courts, saying they want to take him to
the US for experimental treatment. It's considered unlikely to change the
current situation, that's assuming he survives the trip.

Honestly it seems that it needs a miracle right now if he is to survive.
I don't really know why this awful tragedy has become a political
foot ball. It's awful for all concerned but nothing to do with
politics or the state of the health service.


Charlie Gard: Parents to appeal withdrawal of life support - BBC News
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#14
I bet I will be stoned for this, but I feel that in cases like that, keeping someone artificially alive is as evil as killing them would have been. It just prolongs suffering. Then again, I understand that a parent wants to do anything for their child.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,586
1,047
113
#15
Money is not the issue here. It is the court's ruling that Charlie cannot be moved. Although I'm sure Donald Trump's gesture is meant with the best of intentions the courts have stated that any additional treatment would not prolong Charlie's life and will subject him to more pain suffering. He may look happy and peaceful but his illness renders him unable to cry. It is the courts who are (arguably) at fault. It is very sad that both British and European courts sought to overrule the parents. It is the rights of parents that is being challenged and this is the most frightening aspect of this whole sorry saga. We need to continue in prayer for this little boy and his family.

yes, thank you, you stated more clearly what i did so poorly.

according to an article in The National Review, the hospital, in accordance with British law, applied to the courts to forestall further treatment.

i'm perplexed about some aspects, such as, if they're planning to remove the ventilator anyway, why would they determine travel is unsafe?

i hope whatever doc here in the States didn't paint a rosy picture of the boy's future, and i know from the docs we're friendly with that in experimental treatments like these, the goal may not be to help the current patient so much as the next patient, and the next, and so on. it sounds heartless, but i guess this is how medical advancements are made. (sigh)

the whole thing comes down to who has the right to make decisions like this.
sadly, the western world is becoming more and more of a Nanny State. we'll be seeing more of this.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#16
Artificial life support is an evil that should be done away with. The only reason this boy is being kept alive by machines is selfishness on the parents part. Multiple sources are saying no treatments not even experimental ones in the US will save him. Stop doing this and let him die in peace.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#18
Artificial life support is an evil that should be done away with. The only reason this boy is being kept alive by machines is selfishness on the parents part. Multiple sources are saying no treatments not even experimental ones in the US will save him. Stop doing this and let him die in peace.
Oh, and thank you for deciding my husband should be dead because "artificial life support is evil."

He was on an EKMO for nine days, (the machine used during heart and/or lung transplants to keep oxygen flowing through the body), tube fed for five months, breathing through a ventilator for six weeks, and dialysis for three days. All that "evilness" is the reason he's home with me now.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#19
yes, thank you, you stated more clearly what i did so poorly.

according to an article in The National Review, the hospital, in accordance with British law, applied to the courts to forestall further treatment.

i'm perplexed about some aspects, such as, if they're planning to remove the ventilator anyway, why would they determine travel is unsafe?

i hope whatever doc here in the States didn't paint a rosy picture of the boy's future, and i know from the docs we're friendly with that in experimental treatments like these, the goal may not be to help the current patient so much as the next patient, and the next, and so on. it sounds heartless, but i guess this is how medical advancements are made. (sigh)

the whole thing comes down to who has the right to make decisions like this.
sadly, the western world is becoming more and more of a Nanny State. we'll be seeing more of this.
It was a slim chance. Now it is no chance.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#20
I can tell you without a doubt....if it was my son and the state ordered the machine to be turned off....I would be right there, wearing a level 4 vest, armed to the gills and would be in Marine lethal mode....our society is approving murder en masse dia abortion, assisted suicide and now state sanctioned death because THEY think it is not right to keep this little boy alive.....I fully admit that I do not know all the facts...but I also know I was told my son would not live 2 days by the "EXPERTS" and he will be 22 on Sept 1st.........!