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Thread: Let's talk Church Security

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    Senior Member Billyd's Avatar
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    Default Let's talk Church Security

    Church Shootings � Watchman Security and Safety Consulting Ministries

    I grew up in a community where the church doors were never locked and no one would ever even think about desecrating it. The church was a place of refuge for our community. It was not uncommon to see someone at the altar during the week.

    In 1995, our insurance carrier insisted that we lock our doors to protect our sound equipment, and to protect the sanctuary from vandalism. We are in an area subject to hurricanes, and needed the insurance, so we complied. We locked the doors and gave each family a key. In 2005, the insurance carrier insisted that we limit the access even further by restricting the number of keys. After last weekends events, and looking back at other church shootings over the past twenty years, at the urging of our insurance carrier, we have began the preparation of a church wide safety and security plan.

    Many here are pastors, elders and leaders in their home church. What are you doing to protect your church and it's services?
    2 Peter 1:5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love.

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    Senior Member Willie-T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    The majority of churches I know the inner workings of, do have armed people on the premises.
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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    live for our Saviour, He is the only One that we can truly trust in,
    in this fallen-world...come what may...
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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyd View Post
    Church Shootings � Watchman Security and Safety Consulting Ministries

    I grew up in a community where the church doors were never locked and no one would ever even think about desecrating it. The church was a place of refuge for our community. It was not uncommon to see someone at the altar during the week.

    In 1995, our insurance carrier insisted that we lock our doors to protect our sound equipment, and to protect the sanctuary from vandalism. We are in an area subject to hurricanes, and needed the insurance, so we complied. We locked the doors and gave each family a key. In 2005, the insurance carrier insisted that we limit the access even further by restricting the number of keys. After last weekends events, and looking back at other church shootings over the past twenty years, at the urging of our insurance carrier, we have began the preparation of a church wide safety and security plan.

    Many here are pastors, elders and leaders in their home church. What are you doing to protect your church and it's services?
    We have 4 retired military officers, 8 active military members, 12 local police officers, 2 US Deputy Marshals, 4 FBI agents and 1 State Patrol officer we count as members. All of them are armed during services and always have been. They work with our director of security[retired Air Force Colonel] and have had a comprehensive security plan in place for years.


    Our Pastor also carries and is certified. He is CC w/Glaser safety rounds while preaching and there is a shot gun with sabot slugs in the pulpit, that is removed after every service.

    This church has been doing this for decades.
    mailmandan and Yeraza_Bats like this.

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    Senior Member mailmandan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    My church has a security team that is made up of off duty cops and some retired cops that conceal and carry during church service. We're not in Mayberry anymore! Serve and protect.
    I'm not a bad guy. I'm just misunderstood.

    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Quote Originally Posted by beastslayer1970 View Post
    We have 4 retired military officers, 8 active military members, 12 local police officers, 2 US Deputy Marshals, 4 FBI agents and 1 State Patrol officer we count as members. All of them are armed during services and always have been. They work with our director of security[retired Air Force Colonel] and have had a comprehensive security plan in place for years.


    Our Pastor also carries and is certified. He is CC w/Glaser safety rounds while preaching and there is a shot gun with sabot slugs in the pulpit, that is removed after every service.

    This church has been doing this for decades.
    I should also add. We have a powerful prayer team that prays during service and before service and all members know the authority they have in Jesus Christ and power in his name to rebuke a murdering spirit if it comes in attached to or living in anyone.

    The physical protection is wisdom, but we do not ever wrestle against flesh and blood, so we also pray and take care of things in the spiritual as well.
    dcontroversal and Yeraza_Bats like this.

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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Ive seen in a similar thread in the miscellaneous section where others made comments about how people in like Bible times didnt have guards, and that we should just rely on God and all that stuff. But like, I cant think of a single verse in the Bible where God forbids any kind of security during worship or anything like that, so I dont really see the problem here.

    Alot of the people who attend church come with their family, that includes children. Having some sort of security there could totally help such people feel more comfortable bringing their small children to church. While yes, we do not need to fear death because we have been saved from it, I cant think of any verse that tells us to walk our children into danger. I doubt God is angry with the idea of having people capable of protecting others during worship.

    If someone can actually show me a verse that says Im wrong, Id be willing to think about why Im wrong. But I havent seen one myself : p
    beastslayer1970 likes this.
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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyd View Post
    Church Shootings � Watchman Security and Safety Consulting Ministries

    I grew up in a community where the church doors were never locked and no one would ever even think about desecrating it. The church was a place of refuge for our community. It was not uncommon to see someone at the altar during the week.

    In 1995, our insurance carrier insisted that we lock our doors to protect our sound equipment, and to protect the sanctuary from vandalism. We are in an area subject to hurricanes, and needed the insurance, so we complied. We locked the doors and gave each family a key. In 2005, the insurance carrier insisted that we limit the access even further by restricting the number of keys. After last weekends events, and looking back at other church shootings over the past twenty years, at the urging of our insurance carrier, we have began the preparation of a church wide safety and security plan.

    Many here are pastors, elders and leaders in their home church. What are you doing to protect your church and it's services?
    325 million Americans, and, on average, in the last 18 years, the number of people killed in church is 20 per year.

    If security is as serious as that, I think we need crossing-guards to make sure people get to church safely because I suspect more people per year are killed just walking to church. If your insurance company is insisting you take measures to make sure your church is safe? Get another insurance company! They have actuaries. They know the probability factors. They're just hoping our paranoia cushions their wallets.

    No wonder there is more and more diagnosed anxiety. We're feeding the beast!

    God is still sovereign! (And, I have been one very flimsy door away from a drug war with 9 mm. and a Saturday-night special. When the battle was over and the cops swept the area for evidence, they found an old sawed-off shotgun in the sewer too, so it's not like I don't know the fear of bullets. The neighborhood was that dangerous. I just trust God is sovereign -- always!)
    Lynn

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    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeraza_Bats View Post
    Ive seen in a similar thread in the miscellaneous section where others made comments about how people in like Bible times didnt have guards, and that we should just rely on God and all that stuff. But like, I cant think of a single verse in the Bible where God forbids any kind of security during worship or anything like that, so I dont really see the problem here.

    Alot of the people who attend church come with their family, that includes children. Having some sort of security there could totally help such people feel more comfortable bringing their small children to church. While yes, we do not need to fear death because we have been saved from it, I cant think of any verse that tells us to walk our children into danger. I doubt God is angry with the idea of having people capable of protecting others during worship.

    If someone can actually show me a verse that says Im wrong, Id be willing to think about why Im wrong. But I havent seen one myself : p
    Peter cut off a soldier's ear with his sword. I'm not against arming ourselves. I'm against the church wasting money on security. No mention of Jesus ever collecting money for security, or worrying about it either. Lots of mention about feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, and evangelizing, but nothing about spending money for security. And if anyone knew about the safety of body guards, I think it would have been Jesus and the writers of the NT, considering what they were facing daily.

    Is your church in such a dangerous neighborhood you fear the lives of the kids? Then it's time to move or find a safer church. But remember, the last mass shootings in church happened in quiet little communities.
    Yeraza_Bats and oldethennew like this.
    Lynn

    Still woman, but no lady.

    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. Rom. 8:28

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    Senior Member notuptome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    I'm not suggesting that we turn our churches into armed camps but use the wisdom God gives to act proactively. The best security is not visible security.

    Would it be prudent to not have fire evacuation plans and fire alarms in our churches? Do what is wise and trust God to bless. Adam was told he would eat his bread from the sweat of his brow. Sin curses the ground but God deals abundantly with the righteous.

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    use it to examine yourself not others.

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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    325 million Americans, and, on average, in the last 18 years, the number of people killed in church is 20 per year.

    If security is as serious as that, I think we need crossing-guards to make sure people get to church safely because I suspect more people per year are killed just walking to church. If your insurance company is insisting you take measures to make sure your church is safe? Get another insurance company! They have actuaries. They know the probability factors. They're just hoping our paranoia cushions their wallets.

    No wonder there is more and more diagnosed anxiety. We're feeding the beast!

    God is still sovereign! (And, I have been one very flimsy door away from a drug war with 9 mm. and a Saturday-night special. When the battle was over and the cops swept the area for evidence, they found an old sawed-off shotgun in the sewer too, so it's not like I don't know the fear of bullets. The neighborhood was that dangerous. I just trust God is sovereign -- always!)
    Jesus speaking:
    Matt 10:16

    16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.
    dcontroversal likes this.

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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Peter cut off a soldier's ear with his sword. I'm not against arming ourselves. I'm against the church wasting money on security. No mention of Jesus ever collecting money for security, or worrying about it either. Lots of mention about feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, and evangelizing, but nothing about spending money for security. And if anyone knew about the safety of body guards, I think it would have been Jesus and the writers of the NT, considering what they were facing daily.

    Is your church in such a dangerous neighborhood you fear the lives of the kids? Then it's time to move or find a safer church. But remember, the last mass shootings in church happened in quiet little communities.
    once again:
    Jesus speaking:
    Matt 10:16

    16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.
    dcontroversal likes this.

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    Senior Member Billyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Thanks for your comments.

    We are a small (80 to 100 in attendance) church. We can not pay for security and meet the needs of our community and congregation. Most of the men (and several women) are hunters and/or vets, and have weapons locked in their autos all of the time. As far as I know, only two men CC all of the time. One of them is an usher, and the other sits on the back pew. We have solid oak pews that offer some protection. Our pulpit is also solid oak.

    Our greatest venerability is during our Sunday School services. Most of our children's classrooms are close to an exit. Example. Our youth (teens 13 to 18) class is the first door from the main entrance. At any meeting there is 15 to 25 teenagers in that class. Many of these young people are drop offs (parents drop them at the church) or bus pick ups.

    We carry liability insurance, but money won't replace the loss of a child, or for that matter anyone else.

    We (church staff and elders) will be meeting later this week to develop a security plan that will satisfy our insurance carrier, more importantly, make our church as safe and secure as possible. Any recommendations that you have are greatly appreciated.

    Last week, in our small community, an 18 year old shot and killed his father.
    2 Peter 1:5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love.

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    Senior Member Billyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Quote Originally Posted by beastslayer1970 View Post
    once again:
    Jesus speaking:
    Matt 10:16

    16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.
    Interesting. Great verse.

    Without a herder (protector), the wolves will devour the sheep.

    How do you define shrewd as serpents? Innocent as doves?
    oldethennew likes this.
    2 Peter 1:5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love.

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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyd View Post
    Interesting. Great verse.

    Without a herder (protector), the wolves will devour the sheep.

    How do you define shrewd as serpents? Innocent as doves?
    For me, it means what Paul said, we should not ignorant of the devils schemes or give any place to him in the spiritual or physical worlds and we should be willing to use the wisdom God gives and apply it soundly, practically [armed men] and that nobody sees this wisdom or shrewdness because the armed men are peaceful and rock solid spiritually, emotionally, physically and mentally as a dove.

    I have to wonder why nobody rebuked that gunman. Jesus gave us all power and authority. Either we believe Eph 6:10-18 and Luke 10:19 or we don't. IN the name of Jesus, drop that gun now and in the name of Jesus murdering spirit stop and come out of him.

    Many will disagree, but either we believe all the word or we don't.

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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Quote Originally Posted by beastslayer1970 View Post
    For me, it means what Paul said, we should not ignorant of the devils schemes or give any place to him in the spiritual or physical worlds and we should be willing to use the wisdom God gives and apply it soundly, practically [armed men] and that nobody sees this wisdom or shrewdness because the armed men are peaceful and rock solid spiritually, emotionally, physically and mentally as a dove.

    I have to wonder why nobody rebuked that gunman. Jesus gave us all power and authority. Either we believe Eph 6:10-18 and Luke 10:19 or we don't. IN the name of Jesus, drop that gun now and in the name of Jesus murdering spirit stop and come out of him.

    Many will disagree, but either we believe all the word or we don't.
    Thanks.

    I don't think that anyone had a chance to stand up. The gunman entered shooting. By the time he passed through the door, he couldn't hear anything.
    beastslayer1970 likes this.
    2 Peter 1:5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love.

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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Intelligence vs self-justification.


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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Depleted View Post
    Peter cut off a soldier's ear with his sword. I'm not against arming ourselves. I'm against the church wasting money on security. No mention of Jesus ever collecting money for security, or worrying about it either. Lots of mention about feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, and evangelizing, but nothing about spending money for security. And if anyone knew about the safety of body guards, I think it would have been Jesus and the writers of the NT, considering what they were facing daily.

    Is your church in such a dangerous neighborhood you fear the lives of the kids? Then it's time to move or find a safer church. But remember, the last mass shootings in church happened in quiet little communities.
    I totally understand that. But Im sure that there are people willing to volunteer for such a thing. Especially within the congregation. I mean, Im sure many churches have former soldiers or experienced hunters or whatever within their congregation. Just having a plan for such an event could have a big impact.
    Billyd and beastslayer1970 like this.
    I am a strong supporter of followers of Christ who struggle with the lbgt lifestyle. If you are struggling in faith with this like I do, feel free to contact me for support, encouragement or even for a friend. Or to give me your much needed support and encouragement as well

    Do not follow your heart, but guard it.
    (Proverbs 4:23)


    Who is the liar? It is he who denies that Jesus is the Christ. It is the antichrist that denies the Father and the Son.
    1 John 2:22

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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Billyd View Post
    Thanks.

    I don't think that anyone had a chance to stand up. The gunman entered shooting. By the time he passed through the door, he couldn't hear anything.
    I know and agree, I was not trying to belittle or cast judgement on them at all. Media reports say the gunman killed the ushers at the front and back doors first.

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    Default Re: Let's talk Church Security

    if it's getting this bad, 'definitely-home-church' people! or else just 'Trust Jesus' that it's your time
    to go...
    after all, how much better can it get to be at HOME with Him, especially with all of the
    'fear and terror' that many take along with them as they go to their respective 'churches'???

    do you all honestly think that Jesus doesn't have a 'say-so' in these atrocities???

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