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Thread: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

  1. #401
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellsworth1943 View Post
    I find it very disturbing that people who claim to be Christians come on a Christian forum and champion the rights of sinners to live as they please. How long Lord?
    That's because we're not biblically instructed to force our beliefs on people. Some people are just not going to follow the Bible's teachings and that's their right. Walk away and wipe the dust from your feet
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Here's what everyone is failing to understand. If someone says " no thank you I don't want your Christianity and I don't want your God" that's his choice and it's not my responsibility to force it on him.
    That's the same mentality that births terrorists
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  3. #403
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    Here's what everyone is failing to understand. If someone says " no thank you I don't want your Christianity and I don't want your God" that's his choice and it's not my responsibility to force it on him.
    That's the same mentality that births terrorists
    I do not fail to understand what you are saying, however, you seem to think Christians should support allowing people to make laws to protect their sinful lifestyles and demands.
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    Senior Member Magenta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Also, the United States of America is not a democracy.
    Nor are judges empowered to make laws, but only
    to enforce them, which they have overstepped.
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    I do not fail to understand what you are saying, however, you seem to think Christians should support allowing people to make laws to protect their sinful lifestyles and demands.
    A lot of Christians think that another group being given a right somehow take something away from them. It's a persecution complex.
    Everyone has constitutional rights under the law. Again if I wanted the ocracy I would move to Saudi Arabia
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  6. #406
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    A lot of Christians think that another group being given a right somehow take something away from them. It's a persecution complex.
    Christians are being forced to act in ways that violate their conscience and values. That is a reality, and not a persecution complex as you say.


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    Senior Member Dude653's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Christians are being forced to act in ways that violate their conscience and values. That is a reality, and not a persecution complex as you say.
    You're not though..
    The prevailing sentiment on this thread is that if you're not a Christian then you shouldn't have constitutional rights

    This is part of the reason why Christianity is on the decline.. people don't want to be part of a religion that produces this type of fanaticism
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    You're not though.
    How do you know? You assume too much. Not the first time you have been wrong though, right, Dude? Your deflection does not fly.


    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    . .

    Quote Originally Posted by MultilingualMessenger View Post
    *sigh* I don't "judge" every gay person by those I know. And others who don't support homosexuality aren't doing this either. I'm not even "judging" the individuals that I was talking about in my post, I was describing what was. Are you serious? I was one of those "good" gay people you want so badly for me to think about. I knew and still know homosexual and gender-confused people who are kind, not drug-addicted, and not promiscuous, but so what? This is not about my judgment of a person, this is about me wanting to see their soul saved. My consideration of them as "good" doesn't save them, and neither does yours.

    But are you playing God by deciding who is saved and who is not, or assuming you know who is saved and who is not saved? And is this based on you are absolutely sure of your own salvation, compared to others?

    I honestly don't know how I can make that any more clear to you. This is not about who I consider to be good people or bad people. If you can't see the intentions of my heart in this, it's because you're determined to reduce me to a "homophobic", unloving, discriminatory, judgmental bigot who condemns a whole crowd despite my openness and explanation of exactly where I'm coming from.

    I want homosexual and gender-confused people to speak up and seek help. But why would they do that if we pretend there is nothing wrong and everything is hunky-dory, or pacify them by saying other people have sins too, so theirs is okay? When was the last time you sought help when nothing was wrong?

    There are many people who are problematic in lifestyle, or confused. You can't really make out heterosexuals don't have problems and don't need to seek help, and homosexuals do. They have problems like anyone has problems. It's called scapegoating.

    It's not that a homosexual can't be a good person, it's that nobody can be a good enough person to save themselves. Yet we tell homosexual people day in and day out that they're okay, and we tell everyone else to tell them that too. None of us can be "good people" without the transformation that only comes from knowing Christ. Nothing is twisted about telling any person that truth, and that is love.

    I'm not sure who 'we' is, but you seem to speak for 'we' as a majority. You say that transformation comes from knowing Christ, so, it's from knowing Christ, or from not being a homosexual?

    Where did I blame the world's evils on homosexuals? In fact, where did I blame at all? I didn't say there wasn't evil all over (which is yet another way to divert the focus; can you help it?), but I know the evils that I saw, and they are not uncommon for those who have walked that path. It was easy for folks to fall into many manifestations of depravity because there were no boundaries; why would there be any with no moral compass and an "anything goes" mentality? Why would you not take this information from someone who actually comes from that background?

    Frankly, I don't care what your research says about why people are disgusted with male homosexuality. This isn't about people's response to homosexuality, it's about people knowing God's response to it--and He wants to deliver people from it, not encourage them to continue in it, regardless of how "good" you think they are.

    Releasing people from "suppression" so they can celebrate their sinfulness and depravity, wallow in it and remain in bondage to it, and making sure everyone is relentlessly exposed to such depravity in media should not sound ideal to you, as a Christian. Of course it's the world's goal to make people feel less awkward about sin. Can't you see that?

    So homophobic violence, that comes from suppression, and religious fanaticism is not a sin? I think we are moving away from such, and that's a good thing. We are moving forward not backwards.

    Nowhere have I forced anyone to believe, I just don't appreciate watering down the truth about sin to appease people's fragile sensibilities. That's what gets unsaved people to thinking they're perfectly fine and have no need for Jesus. I will never be "accepting" of anyone's bondage; I want them free. The one who lies to and suppresses the truth from a people who sorely need it is the one who is hateful, not me. You can't love them if you lie to them. I'm not attacking; I defend homosexual people by telling them the truth, being a living example of that truth, praying for and with them, not enabling them, and not letting others silence people who also want to reach out to them with the truth. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.

    Again you claim to be the one who knows who is saved and who isn't, as if everyone who is Christian and heterosexual is saved, but the homosexual definitely isn't. I want people free from their bondage, and their suppressions, and their victimhood. Regardless of whether they are homosexual. More than 50% of Christian men view pornography according to statistics. Is pornography a depravity, or is that something you would water down as meh God understands, as long as its not gay pornography, and you are not gay?

    A righteous person should understand that.

    None of us are righteous. Being righteous is usually the problem. We can give our opinions and thoughts, that makes it a debate. Do we learn much factually? Probably not. The only thing we can really learn from one other, is that which branches from the vine, to have more love, forgiveness, and compassion for our fellow human beings, without loving people 'selectively' which always requires 'judgement', which is not love.

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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    No, you are referring to Christians who have a real challenge turning the other cheek. It's called self-importance, or ego. Their personal 'values' are more important than God. 'Personal' is the key word here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magenta View Post
    Christians are being forced to act in ways that violate their conscience and values. That is a reality, and not a persecution complex as you say.
    Dude653 and laura_charlotte like this.

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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    No, you are referring to Christians who have a real challenge turning the other cheek. It's called self-importance, or ego. Their personal 'values' are more important than God. 'Personal' is the key word here.
    Right. I despise mayonnaise with every fiber of my being. I think it is a most violent heinous substance to ever Scourge our planet. But I don't feel personally attacked every time I see someone eating it
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    I don't think Paul's letters are intended to be taken as Doctrine. Paul said "I do not permit a woman to speak... and so on and so forth.. he didn't say anything about God or Jesus.....
    Anyway.... Battlefield of the Mind was a pretty good book.
    I'm sure he takes interpretative liberties with the OT as well.

    I don't want to argue with patriotic constitution serving captain america, just wanted everyone else to know what they are dealing with.
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  13. #413
    Senior Member MultilingualMessenger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    But are you playing God by deciding who is saved and who is not, or assuming you know who is saved and who is not saved? And is this based on you are absolutely sure of your own salvation, compared to others?

    There are many people who are problematic in lifestyle, or confused. You can't really make out heterosexuals don't have problems and don't need to seek help, and homosexuals do. They have problems like anyone has problems. It's called scapegoating.

    I'm not sure who 'we' is, but you seem to speak for 'we' as a majority. You say that transformation comes from knowing Christ, so, it's from knowing Christ, or from not being a homosexual?

    So homophobic violence, that comes from suppression, and religious fanaticism is not a sin? I think we are moving away from such, and that's a good thing. We are moving forward not backwards.

    Again you claim to be the one who knows who is saved and who isn't, as if everyone who is Christian and heterosexual is saved, but the homosexual definitely isn't. I want people free from their bondage, and their suppressions, and their victimhood. Regardless of whether they are homosexual. More than 50% of Christian men view pornography according to statistics. Is pornography a depravity, or is that something you would water down as meh God understands, as long as its not gay pornography, and you are not gay?

    None of us are righteous. Being righteous is usually the problem. We can give our opinions and thoughts, that makes it a debate. Do we learn much factually? Probably not. The only thing we can really learn from one other, is that which branches from the vine, to have more love, forgiveness, and compassion for our fellow human beings, without loving people 'selectively' which always requires 'judgement', which is not love.
    Yes, I am sure of my salvation, as I should be. It's called assurance. Since when it is playing God for me to know them by their fruits? I didn't decide for myself who was saved or unsaved, I observed. Stop acting dense.

    "There are many people who are problematic in lifestyle, or confused. You can't really make out heterosexuals don't have problems and don't need to seek help, and homosexuals do. They have problems like anyone has problems." - When did I ever say or even imply that heterosexual people never have problems and never need to seek help? Did you really see this in my post, or are you just grasping at anything you can possibly think of to accuse me? Look back at my post and try to even find the word "heterosexual". And yet again, you pointing to others that may be confused and need help is yet another way to divert the attention away from homosexuality and having people break free from that.

    "You say that transformation comes from knowing Christ, so, it's from knowing Christ, or from not being a homosexual?" - The transformation comes from knowing Christ, like I said ever so plainly and clearly. The transformation itself is being a new creation, which applied to this case involves being freed from the bondage of homosexuality; the transformation can't come from itself, and I neither stated nor implied that it did.

    "So homophobic violence, that comes from suppression, and religious fanaticism is not a sin? I think we are moving away from such, and that's a good thing. We are moving forward not backwards." - When and where did I say that violence against homosexuals was okay? Did I ever advocate violence against anyone’s person? Your statement was this:

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    You may not agree, but as part of letting go of the suppression of homosexuality, and allowing them to genuinely love each other, and live a life normally as heterosexuals do, I have seen inserts into some series on TV. I myself as a heterosexual, always felt awkward thinking about it, or seeing it on TV. But I have found that having genuine (not gay lifestyle) type actors/actresses in series has helped me feel less awkward about it. That is obviously the intention, and I think from director choice of adding that, its a good way to help people who are not homophobic, at least be more accepting.
    It is abundantly clear that the suppression that you were talking about is the suppression of homosexuality itself, not the suppression of perpetrators of violence. Don’t try to change up now.

    Again you claim to be the one who knows who is saved and who isn't, as if everyone who is Christian and heterosexual is saved, but the homosexual definitely isn't. I want people free from their bondage, and their suppressions, and their victimhood. Regardless of whether they are homosexual.” – You say that as if I think only homosexuals are unsaved and I want them free only. I want every unsaved person to become saved and free from the yoke of sin, but the focus here in this thread is obviously homosexuality. Come on now. And by the way, everyone who is Christian and heterosexual is saved, because everyone who is Christian is saved. If the person is not Christian, they are not saved. Point blank, period. That is not me deciding who is saved and who is not; that’s Scripture. Take it up with God.

    “More than 50% of Christian men view pornography according to statistics. Is pornography a depravity, or is that something you would water down as meh God understands, as long as its not gay pornography, and you are not gay?” – It’s as if you believe that people who are against homosexuality somehow are permissive of everything else. Can you look back at anything I’ve written ever on CC and honestly think and say to yourself that I am permissive of pornography and other sexual depravity? Never have I ever proclaimed that God understands and permits sexual sin as long as it’s not homosexual. I’ve spoken against adultery, pornography, masturbation, fornication, prostitution, and pedophilia in my recent memory alone, so your subtle suggestion that I may be hypocritical here doesn't hold water. This is just another thinly-veiled accusation, and yet another diversion—a two for one. Aren’t you tired of me saying that yet?

    None of us are righteous. Being righteous is usually the problem. We can give our opinions and thoughts, that makes it a debate. Do we learn much factually? Probably not. The only thing we can really learn from one other, is that which branches from the vine, to have more love, forgiveness, and compassion for our fellow human beings, without loving people 'selectively' which always requires 'judgement', which is not love.” – You seem to be confusing righteousness with self-righteousness. Being righteous is definitely not anyone’s problem.

    You have done nothing in response to me except give your opinions and thoughts, and not truly listen at all to the intentions of my heart, which I laid bare, much to my regret (in your case). You have learned nothing factually during this conversation—not because nothing of worth was there to be learned, but because you have decided to ignore the reality of it and twist it into what you are determined to believe about it. You have accused me--whether subtly or plainly--of things that are not even in my character. Even in your final words, you subtly accuse me of loving people selectively and judging—you just tried to hide it behind a sanctimonious, fake appeal to what you consider love and compassion, which is devoid of truth.

    I don’t think there is anything more I can say here. Any further irrelevant, misrepresenting and accusatory responses from you to me from this point on will be met with my silence.

    Have at it, but I will not entertain it anymore.
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    Right. I despise mayonnaise with every fiber of my being. I think it is a most violent heinous substance to ever Scourge our planet. But I don't feel personally attacked every time I see someone eating it
    Quote Originally Posted by pckts View Post
    I'm sure he takes interpretative liberties with the OT as well.

    I don't want to argue with patriotic constitution serving captain america, just wanted everyone else to know what they are dealing with.
    As if being patriotic and honoring the Constitution is a bad thing.
    The Constitution protects everyone's rights. Not just Christians.
    Maybe would like it better in Saudi Arabia
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    As if being patriotic and honoring the Constitution is a bad thing.
    The Constitution protects everyone's rights. Not just Christians.
    Maybe would like it better in Saudi Arabia
    It's a very bad and evil thing when you honor the constitution above The Bible. Saudia arabia doesn't use and honor the The Bible. If they did it would be up for consideration, but it's a muslim country. Comparing the two is another repulsive thing you do.
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    interesting the argument of some. How can one argue asexual preference that God does not nor will ever accept? to say homosexuals have problems and heterosexuals do not is very subtle. Homosexuality is not a race of people. it is a sexual preference . and Biblically NOT of God nor can be. So to argue the sin's of heterosexuals and homosexuals bring or attempts to authenticate homosexuality. it's sin. heterosexual is not sin in the context of the word unless you are a fornicator or lusting . Homo sexuality is sin because it is birthed out of sin. i.e. ones preference against Gods plan for man and women.
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by pckts View Post
    It's a very bad and evil thing when you honor the constitution above The Bible. Saudia arabia doesn't use and honor the The Bible. If they did it would be up for consideration, but it's a muslim country. Comparing the two is another repulsive thing you do.
    The Constitution has to be honored because if you can violate the constitution in favor of Christianity then what's to stop someone else from doing the same thing to you and taking your rights away? You don't want to set that precedent
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    The Constitution has to be honored because if you can violate the constitution in favor of Christianity then what's to stop someone else from doing the same thing to you and taking your rights away? You don't want to set that precedent
    When we honor God, God will prevent it from happening. We the people who honor Christianity and pass these values on to our posterity and reveal the light to others will also stop "someone else from doing the same".

    You have little faith in God to support our society, you put your faith in the constitution. You should be ashamed of yourself as a Christian, but you have patriotic pride instead.
    willfollowsGod likes this.

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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by pckts View Post
    When we honor God, God will prevent it from happening. We the people who honor Christianity and pass these values on to our posterity and reveal the light to others will also stop "someone else from doing the same".

    You have little faith in God to support our society, you put your faith in the constitution. You should be ashamed of yourself as a Christian, but you have patriotic pride instead.
    Of course I have patriotic Pride. I love my country and I'm not ashamed to say it. If you don't then maybe you should leave. Men and women both have given their lives to honor the Constitution so that everyone can have their freedom. Not just Christians
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    Default Re: Australians back same-sex marriage at polls; Parliament plans December vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    Of course I have patriotic Pride. I love my country and I'm not ashamed to say it. If you don't then maybe you should leave. Men and women both have given their lives to honor the Constitution so that everyone can have their freedom. Not just Christians
    I don't care how much nationalism you regurgitate at me, I personally risked my life in the military and am above all of it.

    I don't love countries and other symbols of the world, I love God.
    Last edited by pckts; November 30th, 2017 at 06:18 PM.
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