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Thread: The politics of Gay rights.

  1. #841
    Senior Member willfollowsGod's Avatar
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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    Christian churches are being demolished in China right now... I mean literally demolished.. that's not a metaphor..
    but Christians in America think they're being persecuted because gay people are getting married
    First of all, you are wrong. Christians are being persecuted because they are being forced to do their business according to what the world wants them to do it on instead of Christian principles. Sadly, persecution in China is increasing as well. Say what you said to the face of Barronelle Stutzman, Jack Philips, the Kleins, Kim Davis, etc and you will get the same response I am trying to say. The Kleins as well as Jack Philips, would offer cookies, other cakes, etc but they would not make a wedding cake for a homosexual ceremony. You misunderstand my position on this issue and others and deliberately misrepresent it. Being sued, put in jail, etc all because you decided in your heart and conscience according to the authority that God has given you to not make the cake, do the flowers, take the picture of a homosexual couple or their union, etc, is discrimination and is wrong. The homosexual couple could go to another bakery for their wedding cake, another florist for the flowers for the ceremony, another photographer for their event, etc. Why target the Christian man or woman trying to operate their business on Christian principles? Also, you don't seem to understand what that side wants. They want you to accept that they are ''gay'' or else, they want you celebrate it like they do in their gay pride parades (no other sin is usually celebrated in that way), they will not take no for an answer, etc. This is not rocket science. Also to be understood, that some Christians would make the cake, give the flowers, etc. and would not have a conscience issue about that decision but not all Christians are like that. What I want and others want is the choice and the freedom to express oneself in the public and not just the private sphere. Please try to understand our position. Thanks. God bless.
    Last edited by willfollowsGod; 6 Days Ago at 05:05 PM. Reason: Had to edit post and ran out of time hence the repetition
    kaylagrl, oldethennew and Angela_s like this.

  2. #842
    Senior Member Waggles's Avatar
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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    Well said @willfollowsGod

    If atheists and Humanists (and specifically these days homosexuals and
    transgenders) are permitted to legally spout their politics, values and lifestyles
    from the rooftops and in all public forums then
    how is it that Christians are not permitted equal rights likewise?

    How come atheism and Humanism are preached and upheld in schools,
    colleges, courtrooms, public departments, governments, etc, etc?
    But religious values are denigrated and denied. Even legislated against.
    Looks more like an official State religion than pluralism of choices.

    Look at all the political hoo-haa over a monument, or a park bench or
    a remembrance shrine for veterans, or other public expressions of faith
    in the God of the Bible.

    Notice how these brave heroes of a free and equal world for all, are way
    too scared and fearful to bring the fight to the Muslim community.
    Let them go to a halal bakery and demand a cake.
    Let them publicly denounce Islam for condemning and killing homosexuals
    and others in the name of Islam.

    What do we have? Silence

    It is not about civil rights and all that - it is and has always been
    about taking down Jesus the God of truth.
    Last edited by Waggles; 6 Days Ago at 05:59 PM.
    willfollowsGod likes this.
    Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

  3. #843
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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    You might find it hard to believe, but I have led people to Christ. But not in the way you would lead someone to Christ. The people I have helped, I help with being God focused and Christ focused, compared to otherly or worldly focused. That doesn't necessarily mean I tell them to go to church, or read the Bible, or get baptised. That is their choice. In fact someone who tries to tell me these things just annoys me, and the words can be pretty dead to someone who is deep in sin or an atheist, or just about to jump off a cliff. And THESE are the people we really need to try and get through to. I want to hear God speak through people, not people speak indirectly for God, or on behalf of God. It's like water off a ducks back. The only power it has, is to someone who is vulnerable who is looking for answers and has little belief in anything.

    We are different, and in that sense it is easy for us to conflict with each other but we don't need to. It's hard for me to understand your way of thinking, it's hard for you to understand my way of thinking. But I would like to think we both have good intentions, even if we might say what the other doesn't agree with.

    I may be like a thorn in the backside to some people, but that's never my intention. I try to open up the focus of people. Like for example, if people focus on not sinning, it's very narrow minded. So many people like this, or trying to enforce this thinking. Like I say to you about focusing on the pro rather than the anti, if people focus on being more loving, they are focused less on sinning. You may think they are the same but they really aren't. One must replace bad habits with something better, rather than resisting bad habits or ways.

    If you are in a state of resistance, you are already in the problem. But there are plenty who will help you live in resistance, with comfort. I prefer to get the keys to the problem and get them out of it. Whether it's drug abuse, self-hate, insecurity, unforgiveness, which often come from childhood experiences like sexual abuse. These are all anti-Christ, and the opposite is in line with Christ. To stop abusing your body, to stop abusing your mind, to stop abusing yourself and others with your thoughts which cause you suffering and pain. So many people hold on to these thoughts. They are just thoughts, your thoughts, which you may not even know when they started.

    In real life, I am the kind of person, people will tell anything and everything to. I'm highly empathic. This place distorts things for me, because, many of the people who speak against me don't think that. But then I think the same of them. But hey, maybe neither of us are right. Maybe people are just different, but in text they can be different and say things they wouldn't normally in real life. Maybe we are not what we label each other. That goes for the other people I conflict with on here.

    Bringing God present in any situation, is dropping the labels, whether open or hidden.

    I've given plenty of words here for those who want to label, or be against me, can use. But I'd prefer to be my humble self here on this site, when I feel somewhat pushed inside myself, and I see the same happen to many others who have kind and thoughtful words, and interject the mainstream mind set, with something which is actually more in line with Christ. There is nothing wrong with doing that. It's a challenge when other people don't mutually want to be humble too, regardless of difference.

    So lets be friends in Christ, because when there is difference, there is an opportunity and challenge to focus on Christ, rather than loving only those who love you.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaylagrl View Post
    Mj how many people have you personally led to Christ? Do you talk to people about their need for God? You have a whole lot to say Im just wondering if you try to lead people to Christ. Im assuming that you do. So when you bring them to church and the preacher preaches about sin,any sin,what will you do then? What does the word conviction mean to you?


    Ive mentioned before how a young man in a service we held came to know the Lord. My father spoke about homosexuality and how it displeased God and it was sin. He wasn't offended,he came to the alter,got saved and told us later he had not know that homosexuality was offensive to God. The truth never returns void according to the Word. But how can people know the truth if you refuse to tell them.

    We did another service in Toronto at the Salvation Army in the middle of the city. At the alter call many came with all different issues and came to the Lord.The pastor said we have pimps,prostitutes,drug addicts,all kinds that will come tonight. They came and heard the truth and received the Lord.

    I know you like to think everyone but you is a hypocrite. I know you like to jump in and try to insult and stir up trouble. But honestly have you lead anyone to the Lord? And if you have do you think your way is the only way to reach people? There are a lot of ministries out there reaching a lot of different people. Surely you're not immature enough to think you know all. When you go out on the street,into public places and preach the Word then come back to me and we'll talk about it.
    I am a Liberally Republican Democrat and I approve this message!

  4. #844
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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    With regards to the bakers, or other situations, like school head teachers who intentionally don't recognise a transgender pupil as being so etc., I think it is more a case of pride, religious pride. I think that is why these people get targeted or punished, their pride attracts it, it attracts judgement, God's judgement. What kind of person do they attract? Well someone who has pride about being gay, or transgender.

    Is there a humble baker out there, always kind, always giving, who would bake a cake for anyone, not judging them at all, just doing what they love, not giving such importance to material objects such as cakes? And does that person attract judgement? No, we all know that kind and humble kind of person somewhere out there. And we love them. They attract love, because God loves them. Do we try to convert them into judgemental people, like many people are? No. They are again protected from that by God's love. I have analysed the personality types of these people who get punished, and they are nothing like the humble baker, or the humble teacher, or the humble Samaritan.

    Quote Originally Posted by willfollowsGod View Post
    First of all, you are wrong. Christians are being persecuted because they are being forced to do their business according to what the world wants them to do it on instead of Christian principles. Sadly, persecution in China is increasing as well. Say what you said to the face of Barronelle Stutzman, Jack Philips, the Kleins, Kim Davis, etc and you will get the same response I am trying to say. The Kleins as well as Jack Philips, would offer cookies, other cakes, etc but they would not make a wedding cake for a homosexual ceremony. You misunderstand my position on this issue and others and deliberately misrepresent it. Being sued, put in jail, etc all because you decided in your heart and conscience according to the authority that God has given you to not make the cake, do the flowers, take the picture of a homosexual couple or their union, etc, is discrimination and is wrong. The homosexual couple could go to another bakery for their wedding cake, another florist for the flowers for the ceremony, another photographer for their event, etc. Why target the Christian man or woman trying to operate their business on Christian principles? Also, you don't seem to understand what that side wants. They want you to accept that they are ''gay'' or else, they want you celebrate it like they do in their gay pride parades (no other sin is usually celebrated in that way), they will not take no for an answer, etc. This is not rocket science. Also to be understood, that some Christians would make the cake, give the flowers, etc. and would not have a conscience issue about that decision but not all Christians are like that. What I want and others want is the choice and the freedom to express oneself in the public and not just the private sphere. Please try to understand our position. Thanks. God bless.
    I am a Liberally Republican Democrat and I approve this message!

  5. #845
    Senior Member kaylagrl's Avatar
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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    You might find it hard to believe, but I have led people to Christ. But not in the way you would lead someone to Christ. The people I have helped, I help with being God focused and Christ focused, compared to otherly or worldly focused. That doesn't necessarily mean I tell them to go to church, or read the Bible, or get baptised. That is their choice. In fact someone who tries to tell me these things just annoys me, and the words can be pretty dead to someone who is deep in sin or an atheist, or just about to jump off a cliff. And THESE are the people we really need to try and get through to. I want to hear God speak through people, not people speak indirectly for God, or on behalf of God. It's like water off a ducks back. The only power it has, is to someone who is vulnerable who is looking for answers and has little belief in anything.

    We are different, and in that sense it is easy for us to conflict with each other but we don't need to. It's hard for me to understand your way of thinking, it's hard for you to understand my way of thinking. But I would like to think we both have good intentions, even if we might say what the other doesn't agree with.

    I may be like a thorn in the backside to some people, but that's never my intention. I try to open up the focus of people. Like for example, if people focus on not sinning, it's very narrow minded. So many people like this, or trying to enforce this thinking. Like I say to you about focusing on the pro rather than the anti, if people focus on being more loving, they are focused less on sinning. You may think they are the same but they really aren't. One must replace bad habits with something better, rather than resisting bad habits or ways.

    If you are in a state of resistance, you are already in the problem. But there are plenty who will help you live in resistance, with comfort. I prefer to get the keys to the problem and get them out of it. Whether it's drug abuse, self-hate, insecurity, unforgiveness, which often come from childhood experiences like sexual abuse. These are all anti-Christ, and the opposite is in line with Christ. To stop abusing your body, to stop abusing your mind, to stop abusing yourself and others with your thoughts which cause you suffering and pain. So many people hold on to these thoughts. They are just thoughts, your thoughts, which you may not even know when they started.

    In real life, I am the kind of person, people will tell anything and everything to. I'm highly empathic. This place distorts things for me, because, many of the people who speak against me don't think that. But then I think the same of them. But hey, maybe neither of us are right. Maybe people are just different, but in text they can be different and say things they wouldn't normally in real life. Maybe we are not what we label each other. That goes for the other people I conflict with on here.

    Bringing God present in any situation, is dropping the labels, whether open or hidden.

    I've given plenty of words here for those who want to label, or be against me, can use. But I'd prefer to be my humble self here on this site, when I feel somewhat pushed inside myself, and I see the same happen to many others who have kind and thoughtful words, and interject the mainstream mind set, with something which is actually more in line with Christ. There is nothing wrong with doing that. It's a challenge when other people don't mutually want to be humble too, regardless of difference.

    So lets be friends in Christ, because when there is difference, there is an opportunity and challenge to focus on Christ, rather than loving only those who love you.


    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    You might find it hard to believe, but I have led people to Christ. But not in the way you would lead someone to Christ.
    Let's stop right here. Im glad to hear that you've led people to Christ. But back to what I said,do you understand that each person reaches people and not everyone has the same witness,not everyone has the same ministry.For instance have you ever heard of Billy Sunday? His ministry was nothing like Billy Graham.Even the disciples were different in their ministries.


    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    We are different, and in that sense it is easy for us to conflict with each other but we don't need to. It's hard for me to understand your way of thinking, it's hard for you to understand my way of thinking. But I would like to think we both have good intentions, even if we might say what the other doesn't agree with.

    I can honestly say Ive met all kinds of people in my travels. Perhaps being in an evangelist type ministry I think differently. But I do appreciate that you seem to have a love for people.We do agree that sometimes words don't move people. Music was more my mode of ministry and outreach. Not everyone is going to get saved sitting in a church pew we do agree on that.


    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    I prefer to get the keys to the problem and get them out of it. Whether it's drug abuse, self-hate, insecurity, unforgiveness, which often come from childhood experiences like sexual abuse. These are all anti-Christ, and the opposite is in line with Christ. To stop abusing your body, to stop abusing your mind, to stop abusing yourself and others with your thoughts which cause you suffering and pain. So many people hold on to these thoughts. They are just thoughts, your thoughts, which you may not even know when they started.

    I think to some degree I agree with you here.And the church is painfully unaware of how to help people with addiction,family etc issues. Back in my parents day they had cells,meeting in homes,and people felt more comfortable in that setting compared to a church setting.The Salvation Army seems to reach these people well.By these people I mean those who aren't already churched and use to the cliches we use.


    Quote Originally Posted by mj007 View Post
    n real life, I am the kind of person, people will tell anything and everything to. I'm highly empathic. This place distorts things for me, because, many of the people who speak against me don't think that. But then I think the same of them. But hey, maybe neither of us are right. Maybe people are just different, but in text they can be different and say things they wouldn't normally in real life. Maybe we are not what we label each other. That goes for the other people I conflict with on here.
    Well we have something in common. The joke with my friends and family is Im their counselor.People just seem to want to share and Im a good listener I guess. Perhaps thats why I felt called into ministry. Its hard to get to know people,really know people here because we're all just sharing opinions and thoughts. If we all met in a cafe I doubt we'd talk the same way.


    I think you mistake me on a couple points. I do not see myself as a perfect Christian,I do not look down on others because they have a struggle. I have struggles just like everyone else. I do believe in calling sin,sin but that does not mean walking up to someones face and saying "hey,you're a sinner do you know that?!" That was never my approach in ministry,it isn't now. Without grace we are all doomed. My grandmother use to say "we're all level at the foot of the cross".Perhaps from here on out we can deal with each other differently and have a deeper conversation. And maybe in our differences we'll find we have more in common than we thought.












  6. #846
    Senior Member Waggles's Avatar
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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    But in the end does anyone actually repent?

    When Jesus heard it, he said unto them, They that are whole have no need of
    the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous,
    but sinners to repentance.
    Mark 2:17
    When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying,
    Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
    Acts 11:18

    It is all very well being nice and friendly to homosexuals and other sinners
    but what are the results?
    Anybody repenting?
    Getting baptized?
    Becoming new creations in Christ Jesus?
    Because if they remain unrepentant it will not end up
    good for them.
    Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

  7. #847
    Senior Member shrimp's Avatar
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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    I got the B lesson from LGBT at breakfast.20180114_100201.jpg20180114_100201.jpg


    Whump!!!

  8. #848
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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by willfollowsGod View Post
    First of all, you are wrong. Christians are being persecuted because they are being forced to do their business according to what the world wants them to do it on instead of Christian principles. Sadly, persecution in China is increasing as well. Say what you said to the face of Barronelle Stutzman, Jack Philips, the Kleins, Kim Davis, etc and you will get the same response I am trying to say. The Kleins as well as Jack Philips, would offer cookies, other cakes, etc but they would not make a wedding cake for a homosexual ceremony. You misunderstand my position on this issue and others and deliberately misrepresent it. Being sued, put in jail, etc all because you decided in your heart and conscience according to the authority that God has given you to not make the cake, do the flowers, take the picture of a homosexual couple or their union, etc, is discrimination and is wrong. The homosexual couple could go to another bakery for their wedding cake, another florist for the flowers for the ceremony, another photographer for their event, etc. Why target the Christian man or woman trying to operate their business on Christian principles? Also, you don't seem to understand what that side wants. They want you to accept that they are ''gay'' or else, they want you celebrate it like they do in their gay pride parades (no other sin is usually celebrated in that way), they will not take no for an answer, etc. This is not rocket science. Also to be understood, that some Christians would make the cake, give the flowers, etc. and would not have a conscience issue about that decision but not all Christians are like that. What I want and others want is the choice and the freedom to express oneself in the public and not just the private sphere. Please try to understand our position. Thanks. God bless.
    Kim Davis went to jail for violating a court order. That's not persecution
    Stuff and things

  9. #849
    Senior Member shrimp's Avatar
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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    Kim Davis went to jail for violating a court order. That's not persecution
    Which she violated because she was supposed to issue marriage licenses to homosexuals and she believed that it went against her religious beliefs to do so. Clearly someone else could have issued the licenses and she should have been allowed to opt out of that.


    Whump!!!

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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    what an obvious satanic 'defeat', diversion tactic...
    willfollowsGod likes this.

  11. #851
    Senior Member willfollowsGod's Avatar
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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    Kim Davis went to jail for violating a court order. That's not persecution
    Say that to those in Acts 5:29, who were ordered to stop talking about the name of Jesus. They civilly disobeyed the order, just like Kim Davis, civilly disobeyed the order given against her. I know the specifics of the case and not what the mainstream media and other outlets are trying to make it out to be. Sometimes as Christians we are called to civil disobedience. What was done to her was persecution and is wrong. Also, she has been civil to the one who sued her and is running against her as she pursues her reelection to the post that she has had for many years. Again, you misunderstand my position and others. Try to understand it. Thanks.
    oldethennew likes this.

  12. #852
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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by shrimp View Post
    Which she violated because she was supposed to issue marriage licenses to homosexuals and she believed that it went against her religious beliefs to do so. Clearly someone else could have issued the licenses and she should have been allowed to opt out of that.
    but that's not what happened. She interfered with other clerk issuing the licenses after being ordered by a judge to stop interfering. So she was held in contempt of court.
    Stuff and things

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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    Why cut scripture off half way, It should be quoted in full and with context..

    Ezekiel 3: KJV
    18 "When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. {19} Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul."

    Giving warning to sinners that they are in danger of the eternal wrath of God is Gods will for those who believe Him.. Warn them of the danger they are in and give them the good news ( Gospel ) that shows them the way of salvation from the wrath of God..
    Well said Friend.
    willfollowsGod likes this.

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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by shrimp View Post
    Which she violated because she was supposed to issue marriage licenses to homosexuals and she believed that it went against her religious beliefs to do so. Clearly someone else could have issued the licenses and she should have been allowed to opt out of that.
    I don't know about you, but if I was asked to do a job requirement I was not willing to do, I wouldn't work for them...

    You won't see me being a prostitute in a legal gay brothel... Why? It goes against my spiritual convictions and I'm not gay. I shouldn't expect to be employed for not doing what the job required...

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    Default Re: The politics of Gay rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude653 View Post
    but that's not what happened. She interfered with other clerk issuing the licenses after being ordered by a judge to stop interfering. So she was held in contempt of court.
    Some people are desperate to make her a martyr. There is a right way to do something and a wrong way to do something.

    If her convictions led her to not want to do her job, she should have quit. That would be the right way to handle it.

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