The Reality of "Gun Control" in the US

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D

Depleted

Guest
#1
From the Thomas Sowell Foundation
There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.0009% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
• 65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified.
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence.
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths.
So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation.
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)

So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.
This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.
Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.

Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals.
But what about other deaths each year?
• 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
• 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths.
• 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide).
Now it gets good:
• 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital!
• 710,000 people die per year from heart disease.

It’s time to stop sugar & carbs!! So what is the point? If the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total number of gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides ................ Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions!
So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple:
Taking away guns gives control to governments. The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace.
Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs. So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed."
https://ucr.fbi.gov/
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
113
#2
If we loved our children, we would outlaw residential swimming pools.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,397
113
#3
EXCELLENT POST!! This should be taught in all schools. Or posted on all social media outlets.

Of course, about 95% of social media participants would have to be taught how to understand fractions and percentages before it would make much sense to them...:rolleyes:
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,397
113
#4
Also, when these "kids" start crying for banning guns as the solution... because we all know, "one gun death is too many..." we should educate them to the fact that nearly every business has calculated an "acceptable" casualty rate for their product. Car manufacturers calculate how many deaths are acceptable compared to doing a recall with the associated negative publicity.

Why aren't we loudly protesting THAT?
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#5
President Donald Trump has promised to “make America safe again” by declaring
a federal war on crime. Until the root cause behind America’s crime epidemic is fixed
however[the family unit], the nation will continue to struggle with this problem.
-
The family is falling apart in America, to many kids are raised by single parents.
Does the devil have anything to do with this breakdown in the family values?

FBI Releases 2015 Crime Statistics
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2015-crime-statistics

After two years of decline, the estimated number of violent crimes in the nation increased 3.9
percent in 2015 when compared with 2014 data, according to FBI figures released today.
Property crimes dropped 2.6 percent, marking the 13th straight year the collective estimates
for these offenses declined.

Murder and non-negligent manslaughter increased 10.8 percent
when compared with estimates from 2014.
-

FBI Releases 2016 Crime Statistics
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2016-crime-statistics

The estimated number of violent crimes in the nation increased for the second straight year,
rising 4.1 percent in 2016 when compared with 2015 data, according to FBI figures released..
Property crimes dropped 1.3 percent, marking the 14th consecutive year the collective
estimates for these offenses declined.

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter offenses increased 8.6 percent
when compared with estimates from 2015.
-

FBI Releases Preliminary 2017 Data on Crime in the United States
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/fbi-releases-preliminary-2017-data-crime-united-states

Murders increased by 1.5 percent nationwide during the first six months of 2017,
compared with the same period in 2016.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#6
Also, when these "kids" start crying for banning guns as the solution... because we all know, "one gun death is too many..." we should educate them to the fact that nearly every business has calculated an "acceptable" casualty rate for their product. Car manufacturers calculate how many deaths are acceptable compared to doing a recall with the associated negative publicity.

Why aren't we loudly protesting THAT?
Honestly, why aren't we protesting preventable medical errors? How quickly we forget what happened to the VA hospitals, and assume that's okay, because it's not MY hospital!

I'm disabled because of a preventable medical error.

Hubby spent three extra months in the hospital because of preventable medical error.

200,000 people a year are the ones who didn't make it. A lot more of us who did make it, but paid for it dearly.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#7
President Donald Trump has promised to “make America safe again” by declaring
a federal war on crime. Until the root cause behind America’s crime epidemic is fixed
however[the family unit], the nation will continue to struggle with this problem.
-
The family is falling apart in America, to many kids are raised by single parents.
Does the devil have anything to do with this breakdown in the family values?

FBI Releases 2015 Crime Statistics
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2015-crime-statistics

After two years of decline, the estimated number of violent crimes in the nation increased 3.9
percent in 2015 when compared with 2014 data, according to FBI figures released today.
Property crimes dropped 2.6 percent, marking the 13th straight year the collective estimates
for these offenses declined.

Murder and non-negligent manslaughter increased 10.8 percent
when compared with estimates from 2014.
-

FBI Releases 2016 Crime Statistics
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2016-crime-statistics

The estimated number of violent crimes in the nation increased for the second straight year,
rising 4.1 percent in 2016 when compared with 2015 data, according to FBI figures released..
Property crimes dropped 1.3 percent, marking the 14th consecutive year the collective
estimates for these offenses declined.

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter offenses increased 8.6 percent
when compared with estimates from 2015.
-

FBI Releases Preliminary 2017 Data on Crime in the United States
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/fbi-releases-preliminary-2017-data-crime-united-states

Murders increased by 1.5 percent nationwide during the first six months of 2017,
compared with the same period in 2016.
Holy cow! Can you spin a tale or what? Suddenly it's Trump's fault? Yeah, nothing at all about all the cops who have been told not to touch certain areas in their cities. "Certain areas." Yeah, where the highest crime is!

And what are you complaining about? Why didn't Trump fix that in the first 100 days? Did you even read the OP?


 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#8
Holy cow! Can you spin a tale or what?
Suddenly it's Trump's fault?
Holy cow you are having one over nothing.
Where did I say it was Trumps fault? I said

President Donald Trump has promised to “make America safe again”
by declaring a federal war on crime.

That was a statement President Trump said, is that correct ?
America’s crime epidemic to me is the breakdown of [the family unit],
until this is fixed, things will get worse, no matter what President Trumph does.

Nowhere did I say it was [his fault], the devil not Trump ,
is attacking the God ordained Family values..

Yeah, nothing at all about all the cops who have been told
not to touch certain areas in their cities. "Certain areas."
Yeah, where the highest crime is!
Where did I say otherwise? All I did was post FBI stats about murder.

And what are you complaining about? Did you even read the OP?
I am not sure what you are complaining about,
I liked your post before I even posted. :)
 
Last edited:
L

LPT

Guest
#9
Why isn't there marches for more better mental health care or diagnoses, when ever there's talk about violence and guns it is never a topic of mental health problems and violence, it's always guns and violence. I think it's about people's attitudes and how they act out rather owning a gun.

sure you can have a lot of gun laws and even ban guns, those folks with mental problems will go to schools with a bow and arrow with any means to cause harm.
 
S

Susanna

Guest
#10
I think it's about time we acknowledge that Evil is a major part of all crime.

The President, whomever that be, can't do much about the crime rates. Crime is a constant. It wont go away.

What I find bizarre is the way politicians are resorting to one eyed, quick fix ways of approaching solution like banning guns.

But of course, guns are power and authority, and not everyone believes the people should be in posession of such things. A drug gone wrong or a car killing its passengers aint giving anyone power and is acceptable.

The pressure on the 2nd Amendment will, however, be gaining momentum, even though it is a straw man argument.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,049
1,491
113
#11
From the Thomas Sowell Foundation
There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.0009% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
• 65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified.
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence.
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths.
So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation.
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)

So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.
This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.
Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.

Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals.
But what about other deaths each year?
• 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
• 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths.
• 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide).
Now it gets good:
• 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital!
• 710,000 people die per year from heart disease.

It’s time to stop sugar & carbs!! So what is the point? If the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total number of gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides ................ Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions!
So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple:
Taking away guns gives control to governments. The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace.
Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs. So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed."
https://ucr.fbi.gov/
Excellent post Lynn. I wonder what the figures would be if we looked at the stats involving injuries as well as death.
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
6,031
3,264
113
#12
I read this article a couple of weeks ago and this thread seems to be a great place to drop it.

Here are eight stubborn facts to keep in mind about gun violence in America:

  1. Violent crime is down and has been on the decline for decades.
  2. The principal public safety concerns with respect to guns are suicides and illegally owned handguns, not mass shootings.
  3. A small number of factors significantly increase the likelihood that a person will be a victim of a gun-related homicide.
  4. Gun-related murders are carried out by a predictable pool of people.
  5. Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.
  6. There is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.
  7. Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.
  8. Concealed carry permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution.

Each of these facts is firmly based on empirical data. Here’s a deeper look.

The rest of the article that gives the breakdown of evidence to support these 8 points can be found here. It isn't that long.

Here Are 8 Stubborn Facts on Gun Violence in America - Self-Reliance Central
 
L

LPT

Guest
#13
Here's some more scary stats.

Prevalence Of Mental Illness


  • Approximately 1 in 5 adults in the U.S.—43.8 million, or 18.5%—experiences mental illness in a given year.
  • Approximately 1 in 25 adults in the U.S.—9.8 million, or 4.0%—experiences a serious mental illness in a given year that substantially interferes with or limits one or more major life activities.
  • Approximately 1 in 5 youth aged 13–18 (21.4%) experiences a severe mental disorder at some point during their life. For children aged 8–15, the estimate is 13%.
  • 1.1% of adults in the U.S. live with schizophrenia.
  • 2.6% of adults in the U.S. live with bipolar disorder.
  • 6.9% of adults in the U.S.—16 million—had at least one major depressive episode in the past year.
  • 18.1% of adults in the U.S. experienced an anxiety disorder such as posttraumatic stress disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder and specific phobias.
  • Among the 20.2 million adults in the U.S. who experienced a substance use disorder, 50.5%—10.2 million adults—had a co-occurring mental illness.
Social Stats


  • An estimated 26% of homeless adults staying in shelters live with serious mental illness and an estimated 46% live with severe mental illness and/or substance use disorders.
  • Approximately 20% of state prisoners and 21% of local jail prisoners have “a recent history” of a mental health condition.
  • 70% of youth in juvenile justice systems have at least one mental health condition and at least 20% live with a serious mental illness.
  • Only 41% of adults in the U.S. with a mental health condition received mental health services in the past year. Among adults with a serious mental illness, 62.9% received mental health services in the past year.
  • Just over half (50.6%) of children aged 8-15 received mental health services in the previous year.
  • African Americans and Hispanic Americans each use mental health services at about one-half the rate of Caucasian Americans and Asian Americans at about one-third the rate.
  • Half of all chronic mental illness begins by age 14; three-quarters by age 24. Despite effective treatment, there are long delays—sometimes decades—between the first appearance of symptoms and when people get help.
Consequences Of Lack Of Treatment


  • Serious mental illness costs America $193.2 billion in lost earnings per year.
  • Mood disorders, including major depression, dysthymic disorder and bipolar disorder, are the third most common cause of hospitalization in the U.S. for both youth and adults aged 18–44.
  • Individuals living with serious mental illness face an increased risk of having chronic medical conditions. Adults in the U.S. living with serious mental illness die on average 25 years earlier than others, largely due to treatable medical conditions.
  • Over one-third (37%) of students with a mental health condition age 14*–21 and older who are served by special education drop out—the highest dropout rate of any disability group.
  • Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the U.S., the 3rdleading cause of death for people aged 10–1421 and the 2nd leading cause of death for people aged 15–24.
  • More than 90% of children who die by suicide have a mental health condition.
  • Each day an estimated 18-22 veterans die by suicide.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

EarnestQ

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2016
2,588
310
83
#14
How many women each year are killed by their husband or boyfriend? Does it compare with gun deaths?

How many lives are severely damaged because of abusive parents? I expect the damage there is a lot greater than gun deaths.

How many babies are murdered everyday in their mother's womb? That is a much greater holocaust than the Nazis perpetrated.

The devil is behind irrational gun control because he doesn't want people to defend themselves from a demonic government, many of which exist right now.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,530
113
77
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#15
How many women each year are killed by their husband or boyfriend? Does it compare with gun deaths?

How many lives are severely damaged because of abusive parents? I expect the damage there is a lot greater than gun deaths.

How many babies are murdered everyday in their mother's womb? That is a much greater holocaust than the Nazis perpetrated.

The devil is behind irrational gun control because he doesn't want people to defend themselves from a demonic government, many of which exist right now.
Not just demonic government, people need defense against crime. Most home invasions, while the people are home, result in all the witnesses killed. A number of mass shootings were stopped by a concealed carry permit holder, in a public place. You seldom hear of these stories: maybe on the 8th page.

During the 50s and 60s mental health facilities were shut down because of abuse reports or funding issues. They just turned these people out into the general public. They make up for much of the homeless population and a percentage of the jails and prisons. We need to get the dangerous ones off the street. The infrastructure is already in place to do that; we just need to hold the physiatric doctors accountable.
:cool:
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#16
Holy cow you are having one over nothing.
Where did I say it was Trumps fault? I said

President Donald Trump has promised to “make America safe again”
by declaring a federal war on crime.

That was a statement President Trump said, is that correct ?
America’s crime epidemic to me is the breakdown of [the family unit],
until this is fixed, things will get worse, no matter what President Trumph does.

Nowhere did I say it was [his fault], the devil not Trump ,
is attacking the God ordained Family values..



Where did I say otherwise? All I did was post FBI stats about murder.



I am not sure what you are complaining about,
I liked your post before I even posted. :)
President Donald Trump has promised to “make America safe again” by declaring
a federal war on crime.
The American family has been in trouble since the 1970s. Can't blame that on Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, or Trump. (I can blame it on LBJ, but that would take this to a different topic.)
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#17
Why isn't there marches for more better mental health care or diagnoses, when ever there's talk about violence and guns it is never a topic of mental health problems and violence, it's always guns and violence. I think it's about people's attitudes and how they act out rather owning a gun.

sure you can have a lot of gun laws and even ban guns, those folks with mental problems will go to schools with a bow and arrow with any means to cause harm.
There's no need for marches for better mental health diagnoses. We're actually creating more and more diagnoses. What we're not doing is treating well after the diagnosing though. In one major way, we made one important treatment option illegal -- mental hospitals. Now only the patient can decide if they want to go to a mental hospital, which kind of ruins the whole concept of why some should be in mental hospitals -- because they have no grasp of reality and can't sanely decide if they should be in one.

(Pet peeve of mine. Dad has Alzheimers. He should have been placed into assisted living long before he was. Long before he took 13.5 hours to drive to get his haircut on a Sunday when the place he goes to get his haircut wasn't even open, and he has absolutely no idea where he went that day, except he thinks he was in Philadelphia for a while. Long before he set the wood pile on fire and watched it burn down under a canopy of trees. Long before he threatened to use the gun my brother missed when he was gathering weapons from Dad's house. Long before the cops stood armed in his front yard while waiting for my unarmed brother to go in and get that gun. But, hey! Dad didn't want to leave his home, so he wasn't going to want assisted living. It had to go to court, and God have a major miracle to have Dad say he'd leave his home four times. Because Dad was the only one who could say he would. It's the law.)
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,397
113
#18
The American family has been in trouble since the 1970s. Can't blame that on Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, or Trump. (I can blame it on LBJ, but that would take this to a different topic.)
Yes..... the "Great Society" has become everything BUT.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#19
While I was doing some research on repairing an old guitar I have, on U-toob, I came across this guy using:
[h=1]Neodymium Magnets, in lieu of wood clamps.[/h]
Curiosity, getting the better of me, never having heard that name before, started delving into just WHAT are these magnets. Turns out, they've been around since the 80's, as a form of "Rare Earth" magnets. Much LIKE the old "horse shoe" magnets we've all seen and played with, only much MUCH stronger. Used everywhere from moving the needles around on your hard drive, to cordless power tools, motors on these electric cars, model air plane motors, even magnetic clasps on jewelry, and toys. Wasn't til I klikked on an embedded link concerning "hazards" of such strong magnetic fields, that I discovered they are used in MRI's as well. Further reading, I discovered some "other" things, these are used for, and decided to post that link here on this topic, for the benefit of parents with younger children.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...-they-can-change-peoples-moral-judgments.aspx

As you can see, this type of "neuro-engineering", as well as their "practicing" on the general population as a whole, but, ESPECIALLY, on the still developing brains and minds of our children, who walk around with "ear buds" surgically implanted in their ears, MUST have nefarious effects! Even though these magnets are not AS strong, as MRI magnets, the continual usage of such in regards to younger brains, and minds (both physical and spiritual), should NOT be ruled out, while trying to "diagnose", just what has happened to this country, in such a (seemingly) short period of time!! I mean? Yeah? when I was younger, I had my mouth washed out with soap! But, never once, voluntarily chowed out on a tide pod! :rolleyes:

Here's another article, might be worth a read: https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...ons-of-how-magnets-can-affect-your-brain.aspx
 
Aug 2, 2009
24,580
4,269
113
#20
One needs to look no further than Obama's home town of Chicago to see the "effectiveness" of having the strictest gun control measures in the nation....