Is Obama Communist or Muslim?

[TheGrungeDiva]

I find it amusing that there are people who believe that Obama is both socialist/communist and that he is Muslim. You can't be both. A practicing Muslim would never be communist. It would be more of a contradiction than an Evangelical being a communist. Or both a witch and a Christian

For those who think he is one or the other, please provide your evidence. What has Obama done or said that leads you to think he is one or the other (or both?)

 

[rainacorn]

His stance on gay marriage should blow the Muslim claim right out of the water.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

His stance on gay marriage should blow the Muslim claim right out of the water.

One would think. Though I know people who say he's just saying that to get re-elected, and once he's re-elected he'll recant and turn the country into a Muslim country.

People are weird.

 

[JimJimmers]

It's a little complicated to vote in the poll. But Obama's church that he went to for 20 years combined elements of Christianity, Marxism, and Islam. So he's not any one of those, but the church appears to have just grabbed whichever elements from those three that they liked, shaken them together, and dumped them out.

 

[rainacorn]

I think it's most likely that he's an atheist, but a politician in America so he'll adopt a vaguely spiritual stance from time to time.

 

[simplyme_bekah]

Psalms109:8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office. (That is the prayer I am praying lol)

 

[Nautilus]

I personally don't care one way or the other about his religious beliefs, being Christian isn't a requirement to be president. As far as the communist/socialist thing, he isn't either I don't think. There is a far cry from instituting a couple socialistic policies and instituting a straight socialist state.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

I thought all politicians were crazy?

 

[biggiestomp]

Four more years!!!!!!!

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

It's a little complicated to vote in the poll.

I was thinking about providing definitions for each of the words, but of course there's a limited amount of space allowed for each answer. I'm sorry if you didn't understand the meanings of the words used. You can always look up words you don't know on dictionary.com.

In the mean time:
Communism is a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
Socialism is defined as a step towards communism, and in modern language usually refers to a government that has some programs that are "state-run" (and therefore look like communism) but is not 100% communist, as there is still private property and individual/corporate ownership.
Islam is a religion, founded by Muhammad, which includes among other things strict adherence to laws and submission to Allah.

If you need more, let me know.

But Obama's church that he went to for 20 years combined elements of Christianity, Marxism, and Islam.

Are you referring to the United Church of Christ, as a denomination, or to the particular congregation he attended, Trinity UCC in Chicago?

Either way, can you please provide some evidence to support your assertion that his church "combined elements of Christianity, Marxism, and Islam"? There is nothing even remotely "Islamic" in the UCC's statements of faith. I can see how some of their ideas might be interpreted as Marxist, but then again, a lot of Jesus' ideas can be interpreted as Marxist, so that doesn't really mean much.

So, where do you get that idea?

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

I think it's most likely that he's an atheist....

On what statement(s) or action(s) do you base that view?

 

[JimJimmers]

Nah, I didn't need the definitions. I know what they mean. The reason it's hard to pin down, is because as I said he doesn't appear to follow any of them in their entirety. For example, most muslims agree you can't be a 'true muslim' if you are pro homosexual.

It sounds like you already know that the church was Marxist, so I'll concentrate on the Islamic connection. Barack Obama's Church Honors Nation of Islam Leader Louis Farrakhan - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

That should give you some idea of the church's Islamic connection. In addition, Rev. Wright Blames “Them Jews” for Keeping President From Talking to Him - ABC News

This sounds like something a Muslim would say. Like I said, there appear to be elements of those three in the church, along with a wacko demonic theology that blames 'Italians' for the death of Jesus.

 

[JimJimmers]

And as far as claiming the teachings of Jesus to be somehow Marxist, remember Jesus encouraged His followers to give to the poor, and help out one another, He didn't speak for monetary confiscation and reallocation by a central government.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

The reason it's hard to pin down, is because as I said he doesn't appear to follow any of them in their entirety.

Well, then, you would answer "neither" in the poll. Since that is one of the four options, I'm not sure why you had problems.

It sounds like you already know that the church was Marxist,

Good grief. I never said the Church was Marxist. I said it was possible to interpret some of the things that Jesus said as being Marxist.

For the record: I don't think "the Church" (whether you mean "The Church" as in all Christianity, or the UCC as a denomination, or Trinity UCC in particular -- you never did answer that question) is Marxist. I do think there are some socialist aspects that fit well with Christianity.

so I'll concentrate on the Islamic connection. Barack Obama's Church Honors Nation of Islam Leader Louis Farrakhan - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Wow, so many problems with this I almost don't know where to begin. First of all, just because an organization honors an individual, that doesn't necessarily mean that organization endorses everything that individual has ever said, or is in lock-step with that individual on every issue.

An example could be Martin Luther, the Protestant Reformer. I know several evangelical churches who honor Luther on Reformation Sunday, remembering the advances he made for the Church. That doesn't mean they agree with everything Luther says. Of course they don't agree with everything, or else they'd be Lutheran, not evangelical. Honoring him doesn't make them "kinda Lutheran" -- it's just an acknowledgment.

In addition, Rev. Wright Blames “Them Jews” for Keeping President From Talking to Him - ABC News
This sounds like something a Muslim would say.

Wow, that's almost as racist as Rev. Wright himself. The two of you are like peas in a pod, aren't you?

along with a wacko demonic theology that blames 'Italians' for the death of Jesus.

Wacko is right ... And since you could provide no link for that one, despite excellent references for all your other statements, I am left having to assume that you made that up. Nice work.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

And as far as claiming the teachings of Jesus to be somehow Marxist, remember Jesus encouraged His followers to give to the poor, and help out one another, He didn't speak for monetary confiscation and reallocation by a central government.

Almost.

The Old Testament prophets talked about giving to the poor, aiding the sick, etc. They spoke of Charity, the way you're seeing it.

Both Jesus and Paul spoke of a radical new way of thinking. It wasn't just a tithe, as they had in the Old Testament. God didn't want just 10% and then you can keep the rest for yourself. Jesus and Paul both spoke of giving up EVERYTHING. Sell ALL your belongings and give the money to the poor. God doesn't want your burnt offering or your tithe, God wants 100% of you.

You are correct: what Jesus and Paul are talking about is not some dictator initiating a forcible redistribution of the wealth. This is why I said it only looks like socialism/communist/Marxism. It can be confused for that, but it's different: it's a redistribution of the people of God by the people of God for the people of God. It's a lofty goal, indeed, the Kingdom of Heaven itself. I myself work to bring in this New Kingdom. I join with elation my sisters and brothers who do the same.

But that's WAY off topic.

 

[VikkiKate89]

A practicing Muslim would never be communist

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." -Karl Marx

It's not so much that a Muslim would never be communist, but rather a communist would never be a Muslim. Karl Marx was very anti-religion.

 

[Ritter]

Obama is certainly not a Muslim. Whoever believes that need to either lay off the meds or start taking them

The grouping of socialism/communism into one camp was a flaw in the polling. One can easily be a socialist but not ascribe to the tenets of Marx. Just ask Benito Moussolini, Saint Simon, and Charles Fourier.

There is no way Obama is a communist. Some variant of socialism that is popular enough to influence the Democratic party? Yes. A belief in an ideal strong enough to sit in Rev Wright's pews? Indeed.

At the end of the day though, he's another rustbelt Democrat. That's enough to make me want to see him in a position to spend more time with his family and leave the rest of us alone.

 

[tribesman]

Oh boy, this one was gross LOL. I could give it that Obama can be a social-liberal, as the tendencies are there. Can he be a secularized muslim? I've seen no evidences that he'd identify himself as even a nominal muslim. This said, I believe that there has been a presence of cultural marxism in much of the western world for decades. This has little or nothing to with communism or its prior socialist stage/s however.

 

[tribesman]

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." -Karl Marx

It's not so much that a Muslim would never be communist, but rather a communist would never be a Muslim. Karl Marx was very anti-religion.

Marx and marxism of various variants can tolerate religion up to a point, even as much as it is viewed as being progressive and making a difference in historical or class struggle (see the liberation theology of latin america as an example). As long as religion is not tied to the state or the direct interests of the bourgeois class, marxism would be pretty much indifferent to it. Up to a point even sarcastically positive:

Nothing is easier than to give Christian asceticism a Socialist tinge. Has not Christianity declaimed against private property, against marriage, against the State? Has it not preached in the place of these, charity and poverty, celibacy and mortification of the flesh, monastic life and Mother Church? Christian Socialism is but the holy water with which the priest consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat. - Marx and Engels, The Communist Manifesto

However, Marx did not trust that christianity as a factor is trustworthy to bring about actual social change since it by nature is not revolutionary:

The social principles of Christianity preach the necessity of a ruling and an oppressed class, and for the latter all they have to offer is the pious wish that the former may be charitable. … The social principles of Christianity preach cowardice, self-contempt, abasement, submissiveness and humbleness, in short, all the qualities of the rabble, and the proletariat, which will not permit itself to be treated as rabble, needs its courage, its self-confidence, its pride and its sense of independence even more than its bread. The social principles of Christianity are sneaking and hypocritical, and the proletariat is revolutionary. So much for the social principles of Christianity. - Marx 1847.

Marx however made a pretty scarily accurate analyze of what had become of modern, western christianity and its adoption and embracing of secularism:

Indeed, the perfected Christian state is not the so-called Christian state which recognizes Christianity as its foundation, as the state religion, and which therefore excludes other religions. The perfected Christian state is rather the atheist state, the democratic state, the state which relegates religion to the level of the other elements of civil society. The state which is still theological, which still officially professes the Christian faith, which still does not dare to declare itself a state, has not yet succeeded in expressing in secular, human form, in its reality as a state, the human basis of which Christianity is the exaggerated expression. - Marx on the Jewish question, 1843

Food for thought indeed.

[Sorry for going OT, GD, felt I had to make this input].

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." -Karl Marx

It's not so much that a Muslim would never be communist, but rather a communist would never be a Muslim. Karl Marx was very anti-religion.

True, although the opposite is also true. Islam teaches about the collection of wealth, property, etc., so it is also antithetical to the teachings of Marx.