California Family Fined for Bible Study in Home

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Katy-follower

Katy-follower

Senior Member
#1
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#1
"Nobody should be able to tell us what we can do in our home. Since when do we have to qualify who we have at our house and what we're doing?"

"An individual's home is probably the most revered in terms of an individual's right to gather, to pray and to exercise their religion, particularly with their friends and family."

"It's an overabuse of authority and discretion for any local government to say a family like the Fromms must pay money to the city and get their prior consent to engage in such a fundamentally traditional use of their own home"

Link --> California Family Fined for Bible Study in Home - ABC News

 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#2
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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#2
I don't know... 10 to 12 Sunday mornings with 50 people sounds more like church than Bible study. And generally any assembly of 50 people requires a permit. I'd like to hear what the disgruntled nieghbor is disgruntled about. Not saying what's happening is right, just that there's probably more to the story.
 
C

celestemekent

Banned
#3
Sep 7, 2012
532
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#3
If I It is was living in their neighborhood I would complain too. Just imagine how the neighbors feel with all those cars. It is clear to me that they care far less for the neighbors than they do for the friends in the "church service". Every last household Bible study I've been to has had less than 10 people and mostly husbands and wives who drive together (five cars altogether).
 
D

djness

Guest
#4
#4
Why is this article constantly being rehashed?

This guy has been proven over and over again to be trying to run a church and skirting zoning laws in the name of christianity.

The whole deal is he just doesn't want to pay the fees to be in compliance and then 'oh no boohoo im a christian under persecuton''...if he was willing to obey the law and pay the fees there wouldn't be an issue.

This article keeps poping up on CC every few months and has had all the necessary rebuttal posted before.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#5
#5
celestemekent said:
If I It is was living in their neighborhood I would complain too. Just imagine how the neighbors feel with all those cars. It is clear to me that they care far less for the neighbors than they do for the friends in the "church service". Every last household Bible study I've been to has had less than 10 people and mostly husbands and wives who drive together (five cars altogether).
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I would be absolutely delighted if my neighborhood was so excited to gather that they did so in a home. If it's for the Gospel and the Glory of God, I'm all for it.(Doesn't mean I would do it neccesarily, depending on what it is)
 
Katy-follower

Katy-follower

Senior Member
#6
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#6
djness said:
Why is this article constantly being rehashed?

This guy has been proven over and over again to be trying to run a church and skirting zoning laws in the name of christianity.

The whole deal is he just doesn't want to pay the fees to be in compliance and then 'oh no boohoo im a christian under persecuton''...if he was willing to obey the law and pay the fees there wouldn't be an issue.

This article keeps poping up on CC every few months and has had all the necessary rebuttal posted before.
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You make the assumption that I knew all these things. I simply shared this news that I came across and had no idea it had already been discussed on here before or any further information on this subject.

I actually stopped posting in this news section for a while after getting tired of a negative guard dog going after every thread. I shouldn't have to defend myself for sharing information. This is the point of this section.

If you are fed up with this topic appearing again then just ignore it. Why do others feel the need to bring such negativity into threads, why not just ignore them and focus on the ones you're interested in? Otherwise it does nothing more than try to create drama.


Many churches are becoming so corrupt that christians are meeting in their own homes for fellowship. My parents are struggling to find a church with sound teaching. The same is beginning to happen here in America, as many get involved in this ecumenical movement, accepting heresies. We're in those days where evil continues to escalate.

Where I come from home bible studies are common but they change houses each week so it's never in the same home. I would understand if so many cars are causing an inconvenience for neighbors and that should be considered, like car pooling etc.

It takes just one neighbor to complain. A friend of ours once had a neighbour that would go around measuring everyone's grass with a ruler. If it was an inch too tall she would call the HOA and have them fined.
 
O

OFM

Guest
#7
#7
i agree time to just let this t0pic go....
 
Nautilus

Nautilus

Senior Member
#8
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
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#8
Its just not rreally a news issue at all if you looked into it. The man isnt in trouble for having a 50 person church, he is in trouble for refusing to follow proper zoning laws and regulations, and he is using persecution as an excuse.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#9
#9
There is a much bigger issue here and it's called the freedom to practice one's religion which is both a human right and, in our nation, a Constitutionally protected right.

Why should local governments be able to "prohibiting the free exercise thereof," which is explicitly prohibited in the Constitution, via zoning laws and the instiutution of fees?

The correct answer is that they shouldn't be permitted to. So it's not surprising, that when challenged appropriately, local governments change their laws and suspend the fees. The reason they do this is because the legal precedent is that they will eventually lose in court. They lose because it's unconstitutional for them to levy these prohibitions against the free practice of religion in the first place.

America isn't for everyone Nautilus. You, and people that think like you, may find your happiness better in China. The old Soviet Union has fallen and Christianity has exploded in that previously religiously oppressed sphere so I don't think you'll find the government authoritarianism you long for there anymore. But in China you'll still be able to find many places where the government controls religion to the degree you're looking for including using zoning laws and fines to prohibit them to gather in house churches. Bon voyage.



Nautilus said:
Its just not rreally a news issue at all if you looked into it. The man isnt in trouble for having a 50 person church, he is in trouble for refusing to follow proper zoning laws and regulations, and he is using persecution as an excuse.
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Nautilus

Nautilus

Senior Member
#10
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#10
Lol so who is America for? Or are you one of those 'Amurika is a christian nation' people?
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#11
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#11
AgeofKnowledge said:
There is a much bigger issue here and it's called the freedom to practice one's religion which is both a human right and, in our nation, a Constitutionally protected right.

Why should local governments be able to "prohibiting the free exercise thereof," which is explicitly prohibited in the Constitution, via zoning laws and the instiutution of fees?

The correct answer is that they shouldn't be permitted to. So it's not surprising, that when challenged appropriately, local governments change their laws and suspend the fees. The reason they do this is because the legal precedent is that they will eventually lose in court. They lose because it's unconstitutional for them to levy these prohibitions against the free practice of religion in the first place.

America isn't for everyone Nautilus. You, and people that think like you, may find your happiness better in China. The old Soviet Union has fallen and Christianity has exploded in that previously religiously oppressed sphere so I don't think you'll find the government authoritarianism you long for there anymore. But in China you'll still be able to find many places where the government controls religion to the degree you're looking for including using zoning laws and fines to prohibit them to gather in house churches. Bon voyage.
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It's not about persecuting religion, it's about being good neighbors. And unfortunately not all Christians are good neighbors.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#12
#12
Your question isn't even relevant to this discussion. Obviously, diverse people from diverse places with diverse religions populate the United States. Human beings have a human right to practice their religion and in this country a Constitutional right for our government to make no prohibition in the way of zoning laws and monetary requirements for them to be allowed to do so.

Nautilus said:
Lol so who is America for? Or are you one of those 'Amurika is a christian nation' people?
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RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#13
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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#13
It's not a permit to have a Bible study. It's a permit to assemble 50 or more people in one place. The permit process is supposed to determine whether that place is appropriate for that kind of corwd, no matter what the purppose is. What if the athiest couple next door to you decided to start having big athiest parties at their house? Would you be so sure they ought not be constrained?

Just sayin'
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#14
#14
Atheism is a metaphysical worldview. If atheists want to get together and practice their "religion" (e.g. metaphysical worldview), they have every right to do that and the government has no Constitutional right to prohibit them from doing so.

It doesn't matter if I like align with their metaphysical view of the world or not. They have a human right to do so. Personally, I would not have a problem with it as long as they weren't suppressing my right to do likewise.

RickyZ said:
It's not a permit to have a Bible study. It's a permit to assemble 50 or more people in one place. The permit process is supposed to determine whether that place is appropriate for that kind of corwd, no matter what the purppose is. What if the athiest couple next door to you decided to start having big athiest parties at their house? Would you be so sure they ought not be constrained?

Just sayin'
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RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#15
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#15
I'll buy that. Can't argue with equal opportunity.
 
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