Senate Blocks Drive for Gun Control

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Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#1
WASHINGTON — A wrenching national search for solutions to the violence that left 20 children dead in Newtown, Conn., all but ended Wednesday after the Senate defeated several measures to expand gun control.


Sitting in the Senate gallery with other survivors of recent mass shootings and their family members, Lori Haas, whose daughter was shot at Virginia Tech, and Patricia Maisch, a survivor of the mass shooting in Arizona, shouted together, “Shame on you.”

President Obama, speaking at the White House after the votes, echoed the cry, calling Wednesday “a pretty shameful day for Washington.”
Opponents of gun control from both parties said that they made their decisions based on logic, and that passions had no place in the making of momentous policy.
“Criminals do not submit to background checks now,” said Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa. “They will not submit to expanded background checks.”
It was a striking defeat for one of Mr. Obama’s highest priorities, on an issue that has consumed much of the country since Adam Lanza opened fire with an assault weapon in the halls of Sandy Hook Elementary School in December.
Faced with a decision either to remove substantial new gun restrictions from the bill or to allow it to fall to a filibusternext week, Senate leaders plan to put it on hold after a scattering of votes Thursday. Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader and a longtime gun rights advocate who had thrown himself behind the gun control measures, is expected to pull the bill from the Senate floor and move on to an Internet sales tax measure, then an overhaul of immigration policy, which has better prospects.
More than 50 senators — including a few Republicans, but lacking a handful of Democrats from more conservative states — had signaled their support for the gun bill, not enough to reach the 60-vote threshold to overcome a filibuster.
Democratic leadership aides said the effort could be revived if a public groundswell demanded it. “The world is watching the United States Senate, and we will be held accountable,” said Senator Richard Blumenthal, Democrat of Connecticut, who helped lead the gun control effort.
But with the families of Sandy Hook students in the Senate gallery and a flurry of gun rights phone calls flooding Senate offices, it was hard to imagine how much more emotion could be brought to bear. Aides to senators supporting the bill said that only outside circumstances, like another mass shooting, might cause those who voted “no” to reconsider their positions.
“It’s almost like you can see the finish line, but you just can’t get there,” said Andrew Goddard, whose son, Colin, was hurt but survived the shooting at Virginia Tech. “It’s more annoying to be able to see it and not get to it.”
Mr. Obama — who avoided the gun issue in his first term and focused on proposals he thought had a better chance of passing, only to seize on expansive measures after the Newtown shootings — made last-ditch appeals to senators, including Dean Heller, Republican of Nevada, and Kelly Ayotte, Republican of New Hampshire. Both rejected his entreaties.
Standing in the Rose Garden next to former Representative Gabrielle Giffords and other victims of gun violence, Mr. Obama flashed anger as he said that the gun rights lobby had “willfully lied” about the legislation, and that Republicans and Democrats had “caved to the pressure.”
“But,” he added, “this effort is not over.”
For now, the gun rights lobby has proved more persuasive.
The National Rifle Association mobilized members to blanket the Senate with phone calls, e-mails and letters. The group also spent $500,000 on Wednesday alone, on an advertising campaign criticizing “Obama’s gun ban” and using Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, a deep-pocketed gun control advocate, as a foil. “Tell your senator to listen to America’s police instead of listening to Obama and Bloomberg,” the ad said.
The action on Wednesday was initially supposed to be only the first series of votes in a debate to take days if not weeks. But as the measures’ chances faded this week, Senate leaders decided to rush the process, reaching a bipartisan agreement to hold nine votes in succession, each with a 60-vote threshold for passage.
Using the 60-vote hurdle so early in the process allowed Democrats to prevent the passage of an amendment mandating that any state with a concealed-weapons law, no matter how rigorous, would have to recognize the concealed-weapons permit of residents from any other state. The amendment received 57 votes in favor, including those of 12 Democrats, and 43 votes against.
Senator Joe Manchin III, Democrat of West Virginia, a lifelong backer of the N.R.A. who also pushed for new restrictions in recent weeks, made one last plea for his amendment, which would extend background checks to Internet and gun show sales. While acknowledging that “the politics are risky,” he said it was “a defining time in politics, where you know the facts are on your side.”
The bipartisan measure, which had appeared to have a strong chance of passage, received 55 votes before Mr. Reid changed his vote to “no” to preserve the parliamentary right to bring the measure up again. Four Republicans voted “yes”: Patrick J. Toomey of Pennsylvania, a co-author of the legislation; John McCain of Arizona; Mark Kirk of Illinois; and Susan Collins of Maine. An equal number of Democrats voted “no”: Mark Begich of Alaska, Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Max Baucus of Montana and Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota. All are from states that Mr. Obama lost by wide margins last fall, and all but Ms. Heitkamp face difficult re-election campaigns in 2014.
Debate over the measures consumed the Senate on Wednesday, with speeches from both sides meant to stir emotions. “I choose to vote my conscience,” Mr. Reid said, announcing his decision to vote for the bans on assault weapons and magazines that carry more than 10 rounds of ammunition, “because, if tragedy strikes again — if innocents are gunned down in a classroom or a theater or a restaurant — I could not live with myself as a father, as a husband, as a grandfather or as a friend knowing that I didn’t do everything in my power to prevent it.”
The assault weapons vote was 40 in favor and 60 against. The magazine ban fell with 46 in favor and 54 against.
Even a bipartisan amendment to impose stiff penalties on gun traffickers, which was supported by the N.R.A. and expected to be adopted by voice vote, instead was defeated, receiving 58 votes, as the partisan lines hardened.
The successive defeats left senators on both sides of the issue dazed and disappointed. Mr. Begich said the Senate could have united behind measures with broad support, like strengthening the existing background check system with more data about would-be gun buyers who have been deemed mentally ill, rather than expanding the checks to sales not now covered. Mr. Begich also cited bolstering school safety, criminalizing gun trafficking and improving mental health programs.
“That’s a lot,” he said. “Is it perfect? No. But it’s a lot.”
Those modest steps, however, were sacrificed because other Democrats did not want to see further-reaching provisions fail at the expense of a package that the gun rights lobby wanted, aides said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/18/us/politics/senate-obama-gun-control.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#2
News here is calling it a 'Shameful Day For US' .........
 
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Photoss

Senior Member
Sep 15, 2012
213
10
0
#3
The government won't even enforce current laws. In 2010, over 15,000 criminals and convicts attempted to buy guns (and that number was higher in 2011). How many did the feds prosecute? 44.
 
T

Theophane

Guest
#4
"Freedom" is just a Trojan Horse for anarchy, which has been the goal all along.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#5
NY Psychiatrists Served With Subpoenas For Patient Records In NY Gun Confiscation

Published on Monday, April 15, 2013

...If it’s accurate that the subpoenas in question were received by their targets on Friday April 12th 2013. That would be the same day that WBEN Talk Radio Show host Tom Baurele told listeners that multiple independent sources within NY State Government related to him that a secret seven member”HIPAA” committee had been created within the Div Of Criminal Justice Services after passage of the NY SAFE Act to work in conjunction with the NY State Police at the behest of the Dept of Homeland Security; for the express purpose of illegally obtaining and accessing the private medical records of potentially millions of NY State Residents. Then comparing those records with the records of known firearms owners and pistol permit holders in order to facilitate the confiscation of firearms under the extraordinarily broad language in the law regarding those that have been deemed “mentally unstable“.

Read more at Ammoland.com: NY Psychiatrists Served With Subpoenas For Patient Records In NY Gun Confiscation

....

Psychiatry's Views on Conservatives

"In August 2003, the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) and the National Science Foundation (NSF) announced the results of their $1.2 million taxpayer-funded study. It stated, essentially, that traditionalists are mentally disturbed. Scholars from the Universities of Maryland, California at Berkeley, and Stanford had determined that social conservatives, in particular, suffer from ‘mental rigidity,’ ‘dogmatism,’ and ‘uncertainty avoidance,’ together with associated indicators for mental illness."

Source: B.K. Eakman, Chronicles, October 2004, pp. 28-29.
"Political conservatism as motivated social cognition" By Jost, John T.; Glaser, Jack; Kruglanski, Arie W.; Sulloway, Frank J. APA Psychological Bulletin, May 2003, Vol 129(3), p 339-375

REVEALING QUOTES ON THE GOALS OF PSYCHIATRY AND PSYCHOLOGY - click
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#6
NY Psychiatrists Served With Subpoenas For Patient Records In NY Gun Confiscation

Published on Monday, April 15, 2013

...If it’s accurate that the subpoenas in question were received by their targets on Friday April 12th 2013. That would be the same day that WBEN Talk Radio Show host Tom Baurele told listeners that multiple independent sources within NY State Government related to him that a secret seven member”HIPAA” committee had been created within the Div Of Criminal Justice Services after passage of the NY SAFE Act to work in conjunction with the NY State Police at the behest of the Dept of Homeland Security; for the express purpose of illegally obtaining and accessing the private medical records of potentially millions of NY State Residents. Then comparing those records with the records of known firearms owners and pistol permit holders in order to facilitate the confiscation of firearms under the extraordinarily broad language in the law regarding those that have been deemed “mentally unstable“.

Read more at Ammoland.com: NY Psychiatrists Served With Subpoenas For Patient Records In NY Gun Confiscation

....

Psychiatry's Views on Conservatives

"In August 2003, the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) and the National Science Foundation (NSF) announced the results of their $1.2 million taxpayer-funded study. It stated, essentially, that traditionalists are mentally disturbed. Scholars from the Universities of Maryland, California at Berkeley, and Stanford had determined that social conservatives, in particular, suffer from ‘mental rigidity,’ ‘dogmatism,’ and ‘uncertainty avoidance,’ together with associated indicators for mental illness."

Source: B.K. Eakman, Chronicles, October 2004, pp. 28-29.
"Political conservatism as motivated social cognition" By Jost, John T.; Glaser, Jack; Kruglanski, Arie W.; Sulloway, Frank J. APA Psychological Bulletin, May 2003, Vol 129(3), p 339-375

REVEALING QUOTES ON THE GOALS OF PSYCHIATRY AND PSYCHOLOGY - click
I guess I'm mentally ill because I believe in the 2nd Amendment.
 
M

MidniteWelder

Guest
#8
I guess I'm mentally ill because I believe in the 2nd Amendment.
If it happens to come to a prosecution for exercising your 1st Amendment right
to defend your 2nd Amendment right
You may follow it up by exercising your 5th Amendment right
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#10
Freedom is responsibility, not pure entitlement.
Freedom is given to us by God, and no man has the authority to take it away from us. That is what the issue is. The Bill of rights are our God given rights. When governments take rights away from you that were given to you by God there is a problem.

I have the right to defend myself, I have the right to speak, the right to worship God and so on,.
 
M

MidniteWelder

Guest
#11
Freedom is given to us by God, and no man has the authority to take it away from us. That is what the issue is. The Bill of rights are our God given rights. When governments take rights away from you that were given to you by God there is a problem.

I have the right to defend myself, I have the right to speak, the right to worship God and so on,.
And that...........
is the reason it is not called the "Bill of Wants"
;)
 
T

Theophane

Guest
#12
Freedom is given to us by God, and no man has the authority to take it away from us. That is what the issue is. The Bill of rights are our God given rights. When governments take rights away from you that were given to you by God there is a problem.

I have the right to defend myself, I have the right to speak, the right to worship God and so on,.
You are accountable for your actions. You will give account of them when you face Judgement. The Bill of Rights was written by sinful men (not gods) who formed a country on the basis of slavery and genocide. I urge you to find your humility!
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#13
You are accountable for your actions. You will give account of them when you face Judgement. The Bill of Rights was written by sinful men (not gods) who formed a country on the basis of slavery and genocide. I urge you to find your humility!
You have no authority to "urge" me or anyone to do anything. You have placed a wrongful critical judgement on me and others because we do not agree with how you see things. If you honestly think that I have not studied scripture to see what my rights, and freedoms are you are mistaken.
The Bill of Rights does line up with scripture yet it seems you are more in to listening to Ghandi, and buddhist theology than searching the scriptures. "Freedom is responsibility" is buddhist.

BTW, many of our founding fathers were God fearing men. Many opposed slavery, and refused to own one.
 
M

MidniteWelder

Guest
#14
Quote "You are accountable for your actions. You will give account of them when you face Judgement. The Bill of Rights was written by sinful men (not gods) who formed a country on the basis of slavery and genocide. I urge you to find your humility!"

We kind of like the fact Our Govt cant set up a church or have preference over any one religion which could lend to favoring a pagan religion- 1st Amendment
We value favorably our right to defend ourselves against and police a Govt which may wish to Enslave its own citizens
- 2nd Amendment
We value the fact we dont have to quarter, "house" troops neither in peace or wartime in our homes without the owners consent - 3rd Amendment which establishes and reinforces the right to citizens privacy
We value the fact that we are protected against unlawful search and seizures without a Warrant issued upon probable cause
-Our 4th Amendment

I'll just stop there, and let you research the rest to determine if these "Rights" appear sinful.
I dont think it's very proper to be speaking of others liberties unless you live in the same country in which you are able to partake of said liberties.
I believe refraining from speaking poorly of a country in which one doesnt live would be showing the same humilty you require of others..understood
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#16
I have the right to defend myself, I have the right to speak, the right to worship God and so on,.
hi Beth....hold fast on all that.

up in Kanada we have the right to be killed by an intruder or a bear (the intruder and the bear have more rights than we do); we have the right to be jailed for speaking freely (tribunals), and so far so good on the right to worship the Lord....:)

but we used to have guns and free speech too...once upon a time.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
#18
hi Beth....hold fast on all that.

up in Kanada we have the right to be killed by an intruder or a bear (the intruder and the bear have more rights than we do); we have the right to be jailed for speaking freely (tribunals), and so far so good on the right to worship the Lord....:)

but we used to have guns and free speech too...once upon a time.
That is truly sad. In America its beginning to look like animals have more rights than humans.