Massacre Nairobi Kenya Mall Attack . Kenya: 'If You Were Muslim They Let You Go'

[AgeofKnowledge]

You're efforts to white wash the atrocities Muslims committed against Jews are sick. You just sweep them under the rug. They're "normal" in your view. I'll agree that they're normal Muslim behavior. You know what the difference between an apologist for Nazi atrocities and an apologist for Muslim atrocities is? Nothing. They're the same. Both epistemologies are unreformable violent epistemologies that result in atrocities throughout history. You might as well be goose-stepping like the Muslims that loved Hitler when he was around as I showed you in a previous post.

On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.

Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).

As distinguished Orientalist G.E. von Grunebaum has written:

It would not be difficult to put together the names of a very sizeable number of Jewish subjects or citizens of the Islamic area who have attained to high rank, to power, to great financial influence, to significant and recognized intellectual attainment; and the same could be done for Christians. But it would again not be difficult to compile a lengthy list of persecutions, arbitrary confiscations, attempted forced conversions, or pogroms.

The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.

By the twentieth century, the status of the dhimmi in Muslim lands had not significantly improved. H.E.W. Young, British Vice Consul in Mosul, wrote in 1909:

The attitude of the Muslims toward the Christians and the Jews is that of a master towards slaves, whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed.

The danger for Jews became even greater as a showdown approached in the UN over partition in 1947. The Syrian delegate, Faris el-Khouri, warned: "Unless the Palestine problem is settled, we shall have difficulty in protecting and safeguarding the Jews in the Arab world."

More than a thousand Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940's in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yemen. This helped trigger the mass exodus of Jews from Arab countries.

You want to keep going? I got all day.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Tommy Robinson on BBC Newsnight after quitting the EDL with Kev Carroll 08/10/2013 - Tommy Robinson ex leader of the English Defence League explains to Jeremy Paxman on Newsnight his reasons for quitting the organization.


LiveLeak.com - Tommy Robinson on BBC Newsnight after quitting the EDL with Kev Carroll 08/10/2013

 

[Drett]

You're efforts to white wash the atrocities Muslims committed against Jews are sick. You just sweep them under the rug. They're "normal" in your view. I'll agree that they're normal Muslim behavior. You know what the difference between an apologist for Nazi atrocities and an apologist for Muslim atrocities is? Nothing. They're the same. Both epistemologies are unreformable violent epistemologies that result in atrocities throughout history. You might as well be goose-stepping like the Muslims that loved Hitler when he was around as I showed you in a previous post.

On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.

Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).

As distinguished Orientalist G.E. von Grunebaum has written:

It would not be difficult to put together the names of a very sizeable number of Jewish subjects or citizens of the Islamic area who have attained to high rank, to power, to great financial influence, to significant and recognized intellectual attainment; and the same could be done for Christians. But it would again not be difficult to compile a lengthy list of persecutions, arbitrary confiscations, attempted forced conversions, or pogroms.

The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.

By the twentieth century, the status of the dhimmi in Muslim lands had not significantly improved. H.E.W. Young, British Vice Consul in Mosul, wrote in 1909:

The attitude of the Muslims toward the Christians and the Jews is that of a master towards slaves, whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed.

The danger for Jews became even greater as a showdown approached in the UN over partition in 1947. The Syrian delegate, Faris el-Khouri, warned: "Unless the Palestine problem is settled, we shall have difficulty in protecting and safeguarding the Jews in the Arab world."

More than a thousand Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940's in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yemen. This helped trigger the mass exodus of Jews from Arab countries.

You want to keep going? I got all day.

Now you have reverted to Muslims acting badly.

 

[Drett]

You're efforts to white wash the atrocities Muslims committed against Jews are sick. You just sweep them under the rug. They're "normal" in your view. I'll agree that they're normal Muslim behavior. You know what the difference between an apologist for Nazi atrocities and an apologist for Muslim atrocities is? Nothing. They're the same. Both epistemologies are unreformable violent epistemologies that result in atrocities throughout history. You might as well be goose-stepping like the Muslims that loved Hitler when he was around as I showed you in a previous post.

On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.

Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).

As distinguished Orientalist G.E. von Grunebaum has written:

It would not be difficult to put together the names of a very sizeable number of Jewish subjects or citizens of the Islamic area who have attained to high rank, to power, to great financial influence, to significant and recognized intellectual attainment; and the same could be done for Christians. But it would again not be difficult to compile a lengthy list of persecutions, arbitrary confiscations, attempted forced conversions, or pogroms.

The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.

By the twentieth century, the status of the dhimmi in Muslim lands had not significantly improved. H.E.W. Young, British Vice Consul in Mosul, wrote in 1909:

The attitude of the Muslims toward the Christians and the Jews is that of a master towards slaves, whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed.

The danger for Jews became even greater as a showdown approached in the UN over partition in 1947. The Syrian delegate, Faris el-Khouri, warned: "Unless the Palestine problem is settled, we shall have difficulty in protecting and safeguarding the Jews in the Arab world."

More than a thousand Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940's in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yemen. This helped trigger the mass exodus of Jews from Arab countries.

You want to keep going? I got all day.

OK I'll give you a bit more of my time. I normally don't like to give bad mannered people too much time.

Again look at the history of Muslims and Jewish people. Liberation of Jerusalem. After the 2nd Crusade. During the Spanish Inquisition. The Muslims now do not practice correctly compared to these people. The recent bad blood between Jews and Muslims are a result of some unfortunate events that occurred in recent times which has been documented at length on other threads.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

No. We're having a discussion about how Muslims have historically treated the Jews. You've portrayed the situation as very different than it was. I'm correcting you. What you're seeing is Muslims acting like Muslims just as Mohammad acted and how he instructed them to act.

Now you have reverted to Muslims acting badly.

 

[jack4022]

I believe it's fair to say if we look back far enough everyone's ancestors have killed everyone else's ancestors. For a long time christians were not very nice to jews either, and before that jews weren't very nice to christians.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

This is funny coming from you. I've watched you engage in name calling, ad hominem, reductio ad hitlerum, etc... If you don't want people to return your stones to you, then don't throw them in the first place. Simple.

And you keep ignoring centuries of Muslim atrocities with hundreds of millions murdered and enslaved by the Muslims and just zero in on a little slice of history claiming that it was the reason for the modern conflict for some bizarre reason that is patently false. I've already showed you that during Mohammad's life he was engaged in atrocities against the Jews and that they continued in one form or another from then on. Mohammad died in 632 AD. You keep referring to the Second Crusade which was 1145–1149 presumably because Saladin was the historical exception to the rule in acting materially more mercifully than Mohammad and the others at times.

But you're ignoring that Saladin enslaved every non-Muslim in Jerusalem that couldn't pay him his blood money. The price was ten dinar per man, five Dinar per woman, and two dinar per child. You didn't have it, you became a slave and most didn't have it. You're also ignoring the atrocities that he did commit.

In line with how the Turks dealt with German and French prisoners captured early in the First Crusade prior to the sacking of Jerusalem in which those who renounced Christ and converted to Islam were sent East and the rest slaughtered, Saladin defeated a large Latin army on July 3, 1187 and ordered the mass execution of all Hospitallers and Templars left alive personally beheading the nobleman Reynald of Chatillon. Saladin's secretary noted that:

"He ordered that they should be beheaded, choosing to have them dead rather than in prison. With him was a whole band of scholars and Sufis . . . [and] each begged to be allowed to kill one of them, and drew his sword and rolled back his sleeve. Saladin, his face joyful, was sitting on his dais; the unbelievers showed black despair."

In fact, Saladin had planned to massacre all of the Christians in Jerusalem after taking it back from the Crusaders, but when the commander of the Jerusalem garrison threatened to destroy the city and kill all of the Muslims inside the walls, Saladin allowed them to buy their freedom or be sold into slavery instead. You appear to be completely unaware that he intended genocide initially.

All of which shows you have no grasp of history in the aggregate nor even the slice of history you're trying to extract from the rest. You don't understand Islam, especially the integral aspect of the dhimma and how infidels (which include Jews and Christians) were forced to openly acknowledge the superiority of Islam and how most anything could result in a death penalty.

Dhimmis, on pain of death, were forbidden to mock or criticize the Koran, Islam or Muhammad, to proselytize among Muslims or to touch a Muslim woman (though a Muslim man could take a non­Muslim as a wife); were excluded from public office and armed service and forbidden to bear arms. They were not allowed to ride horses or camels, to build synagogues or churches taller than mosques, to construct houses higher than those of Muslims or to drink wine in public. They were not allowed to pray or mourn in loud voices-as that might offend the Muslims. The dhimmi had to show public deference toward Muslims and always yield to them the center of the road. The dhimmi was not allowed to give evidence in court against a Muslim, and his oath was unacceptable in an Islamic court. To defend himself, the dhimmi would have to purchase Muslim witnesses at great expense. This left the dhimmi with little legal recourse when harmed by a Muslim (which happened often). Dhimmis were also forced to wear distinctive clothing. In the ninth century, for example, Baghdad's Caliph al-Mutawakkil designated a yellow badge for Jews, setting a precedent that would be followed centuries later in Nazi Germany.

Etc... etc... etc...

OK I'll give you a bit more of my time. I normally don't like to give bad mannered people too much time.

Again look at the history of Muslims and Jewish people. Liberation of Jerusalem. After the 2nd Crusade. During the Spanish Inquisition. The Muslims now do not practice correctly compared to these people. The recent bad blood between Jews and Muslims are a result of some unfortunate events that occurred in recent times which has been documented at length on other threads.

 

[zone]

Tommy Robinson on BBC Newsnight after quitting the EDL with Kev Carroll 08/10/2013 - Tommy Robinson ex leader of the English Defence League explains to Jeremy Paxman on Newsnight his reasons for quitting the organization.


LiveLeak.com - Tommy Robinson on BBC Newsnight after quitting the EDL with Kev Carroll 08/10/2013

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (born 27 November 1982), known by the pseudonym Tommy Robinson and also going by Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris[3] was the co-founder,[4] spokesman and leader of the English Defence League (EDL) "street protest" movement. He led the EDL from 2009 until he left the group in October 2013. For a short time in 2012 Robinson was joint Party Vice Chairman of the British Freedom Party. He also founded the European Defence League.

Tommy Robinson (activist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


so you are saying this MI6 fascist revolutionary is an example of....what exactly?
EDL is some good thing?

how do you go from doing a hitler rant in one post - and hysterically defending this guy and this organization in the next?

....

Unmasked: wealthy backers behind far-right league

The Sunday Times by Dipesh Gadher and Robin Henry | Sunday, 11 December 2011

Alan Ayling aka Alan Lake

A property tycoon and a City-based financier quizzed by police over his links to the gunman who slaughtered 69 people in Norway are exposed today as key figures behind the rise of the far-right English Defence League (EDL).

A Sunday Times investigation has revealed that Ann Marchini, a mother from Highgate, north London, and Alan Ayling, a former director of an investment fund, have sought to mould the thuggish anti-Muslim group into a credible political force.

They are both linked to the murky world of the online "counter-jihad" movement from which Anders Behring Breivik drew ideological inspiration before committing his massacre in Norway in July. They have remained in the shadows until now by using aliases on the internet to mask their true identities.

Breivik repeatedly mentioned the EDL in his 1,600-page "manifesto" and once belonged to an Oslo-based offshoot called the Norwegian Defence League.

The EDL, whose support has mushroomed since it was formed in Luton in 2009, has organised a string of protests against what it perceives as the growing "Islamisation" of Britain.

Many have descended into violence perpetrated by a hard core of football hooligans.

However, the "brains" behind the group — which plans to field candidates at the next council elections — come from a different background.

Marchini, who is thought to be in her fifties, runs a buy-to-let property empire from her £1.6m mock-Tudor home in Highgate, a leafy suburb usually associated with liberals.

Marchini, who is believed to be divorced from an Italian banker, operates under at least two aliases: "Gaia", the Earth goddess from Greek mythology, and "Dominique Devaux".

She is said to have helped organise a "pivotal" meeting between EDL figures and anti-jihad thinkers in July 2009 and recently attended a discussion where the EDL agreed to consider an electoral pact with the right-wing British Freedom party (BFP).

A report by Gaia on the BFP website states that Stephen Lennon, the EDL leader, "explained that the EDL need to move up a notch — they cannot go on forever staging street demos. They are still widely perceived as a rabble, and as such cannot possibly obtain funding or be taken seriously by the political class".

Marchini was photographed alongside Lennon, 28, at a far-right demonstration this year and the image was posted on the website of Hope Not Hate, an anti-fascist group. Her name and address also appeared on a leaked list of EDL donors.

The 2009 EDL meeting took place at the £500,000 flat of Ayling in the Barbican in central London. Lennon attended with two relatives from Luton.

Paul Ray, who claims to be a founder of the EDL, was also there. He says he travelled to the venue from Highgate with Marchini, whom he knew at the time as "Ann", "Gaia" or "Dominique". He says he had previously stayed for "a few months" at one of her rental flats on British Street in Bow, east London.

Ray regards the Barbican meeting as "pivotal". "It was the key people being brought together," he said. "It was bringing together the ideological and political side with the boots on the ground."

Two days after the meeting, Ray received an email from "Dominique Devaux", using the account "[email protected]". "Still very interested in helping EDF [sic] grow as a movement," it stated. It was signed off by "Ann".

Another email, seen by The Sunday Times, gives a mobile number used by Marchini for letting her properties.

Ayling, 57, has been operating under the alias "Alan Lake". He is an IT expert and was a director of Pacific Capital Investment Management until January this year. The fund was dissolved in August.

Last month Ayling was interviewed by officers from Scotland Yard at the behest of Norwegian police who were investigating whether he was a possible "mentor" of Breivik.

Paal-Fredrik Kraby, an Oslo police prosecutor, confirmed that "the man known as Alan Lake" had been questioned. "But his real name is not for us to give to the press," he said.

In an interview with a Norwegian newspaper nine days ago, Lake denied having any contact with Breivik. However, he admitted to having met a prolific anti-Islam blogger called "Fjordman". "People ought to read him, he is good," Lake said. Breivik named Fjordman 111 times in his manifesto.

In the same interview, Lake said Breivik was "wrong", but added the following about Norway's immigration policies: "You let in dangerous people who do not share your values, who will destroy your society and take your freedom. You will have to pay the price for that."

When shown a photograph of Lake last week, two separate sources at the Barbican confirmed that the man in the picture was Ayling. A man inside his flat denied he was Ayling when contacted over the intercom and refused to step outside. Ayling did not respond to a written list of questions.

Norwegian police say Lake was interviewed in London as a "witness". They have also spoken at length to Ray, 35, who voluntarily flew to Oslo to try to clear his name after speculation that he could have unwittingly inspired Breivik.

The Norwegian gunman, 32, who has been declared insane by psychiatrists, claimed in his manifesto that he once had an English mentor called "Richard (the Lionhearted)". Ray, a born-again Christian who subsequently fell out with the EDL, runs a blog called Lionheart.

When The Sunday Times first approached Marchini about her EDL links on November 30, she slammed the door shut on a reporter. Last week, she and her son, Paolo, hung up at least three times when contacted by telephone.

On Friday, a lawyer for Marchini said: "Ann Marchini does not operate under the alias of either Dominique Devaux or Gaia. She is a member of British Freedom, but joined only to show support for her personal friend Paul Weston [the chairman]."

Two names on Dominique Devaux's list of Facebook friends — Paolo and Bianca Marchini — disappeared on the same day.

Weston, a former UK Independence party candidate, said he could not recall befriending Devaux on Facebook. He described Breivik as "a psychopathic lunatic".

Lennon admitted knowing Marchini under the Devaux alias, but denied she was influential. He said Lake was a "nutjob" and had not been involved with the EDL "for ages". Lennon, a former member of the British National party, denied the EDL was racist and said Breivik was "a monster".

Unmasked: wealthy backers behind far-right league | The Sunday Times < click

....

Tycoons back new far-right grouping

ANDY MCSMITH Author Biography MONDAY 12 DECEMBER 2011

A property tycoon and a former investment fund manager have been named as the driving forces behind a plan to create a new force on the far-right of British politics.

The Independent revealed last week that the English Defence League plans to run candidates for the first time in local elections, after a deal with another far-right group, the British Freedom Party, formed by former members of the British National Party.

Ann Marchini, who runs a buy-to-let property empire, confirmed to The Sunday Times that she is a member of the British Freedom Party and a friend of its chairman, Paul Weston.

Tycoons back new far-right grouping - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

...

you have convinced me you're not particularly naive, AoK. now what?
follow the money, i guess.
you know where this leads, right?
maybe a thread in the Conspiracy forum and link back to it here?

zone

 

[Drett]

This is funny coming from you. I've watched you engage in name calling, ad hominem, reductio ad hitlerum, etc... If you don't want people to return your stones to you, then don't throw them in the first place. Simple.

And you keep ignoring centuries of Muslim atrocities with hundreds of millions murdered and enslaved by the Muslims and just zero in on a little slice of history claiming that it was the reason for the modern conflict for some bizarre reason that is patently false. I've already showed you that during Mohammad's life he was engaged in atrocities against the Jews and that they continued in one form or another from then on. Mohammad died in 632 AD. You keep referring to the Second Crusade which was 1145–1149 presumably because Saladin was the historical exception to the rule in acting materially more mercifully than Mohammad and the others at times.

But you're ignoring that Saladin enslaved every non-Muslim in Jerusalem that couldn't pay him his blood money. The price was ten dinar per man, five Dinar per woman, and two dinar per child. You didn't have it, you became a slave and most didn't have it. You're also ignoring the atrocities that he did commit.

In line with how the Turks dealt with German and French prisoners captured early in the First Crusade prior to the sacking of Jerusalem in which those who renounced Christ and converted to Islam were sent East and the rest slaughtered, Saladin defeated a large Latin army on July 3, 1187 and ordered the mass execution of all Hospitallers and Templars left alive personally beheading the nobleman Reynald of Chatillon. Saladin's secretary noted that:

"He ordered that they should be beheaded, choosing to have them dead rather than in prison. With him was a whole band of scholars and Sufis . . . [and] each begged to be allowed to kill one of them, and drew his sword and rolled back his sleeve. Saladin, his face joyful, was sitting on his dais; the unbelievers showed black despair."

In fact, Saladin had planned to massacre all of the Christians in Jerusalem after taking it back from the Crusaders, but when the commander of the Jerusalem garrison threatened to destroy the city and kill all of the Muslims inside the walls, Saladin allowed them to buy their freedom or be sold into slavery instead. You appear to be completely unaware that he intended genocide initially.

All of which shows you have no grasp of history in the aggregate nor even the slice of history you're trying to extract from the rest. You don't understand Islam, especially the integral aspect of the dhimma and how infidels (which include Jews and Christians) were forced to openly acknowledge the superiority of Islam and how most anything could result in a death penalty.

Dhimmis, on pain of death, were forbidden to mock or criticize the Koran, Islam or Muhammad, to proselytize among Muslims or to touch a Muslim woman (though a Muslim man could take a non*Muslim as a wife); were excluded from public office and armed service and forbidden to bear arms. They were not allowed to ride horses or camels, to build synagogues or churches taller than mosques, to construct houses higher than those of Muslims or to drink wine in public. They were not allowed to pray or mourn in loud voices-as that might offend the Muslims. The dhimmi had to show public deference toward Muslims and always yield to them the center of the road. The dhimmi was not allowed to give evidence in court against a Muslim, and his oath was unacceptable in an Islamic court. To defend himself, the dhimmi would have to purchase Muslim witnesses at great expense. This left the dhimmi with little legal recourse when harmed by a Muslim (which happened often). Dhimmis were also forced to wear distinctive clothing. In the ninth century, for example, Baghdad's Caliph al-Mutawakkil designated a yellow badge for Jews, setting a precedent that would be followed centuries later in Nazi Germany.

Etc... etc... etc...

I will have to read up on the Saladins secretaries diaries. I have not seen them before.

A lot of the laws that applied to Dhimmis also applied to Muslims. Muslims also were not allowed to mourn loudly. It is not because they did not like their voice. If you believe in the afterlife then you should not need to mourn loudly.

Also Muslim men were not allowed to touch Muslim women so it was more respect for women.

The distinctive badge was so the police would not apply Muslim laws on the Dhimmis. It was to allow more freedom for them. If the police saw someone was not praying and wearing the badge they would leave them alone.

People do not want to be ruled by others and it looked like there was some distortion of the truth to make their plight look bad. In the end history shows Jewish people sort refuge in Muslims lands.

 

[zone]

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (born 27 November 1982), known by the pseudonym Tommy Robinson and also going by Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris[3] was the co-founder,[4] spokesman and leader of the English Defence League (EDL) "street protest" movement. He led the EDL from 2009 until he left the group in October 2013. For a short time in 2012 Robinson was joint Party Vice Chairman of the British Freedom Party. He also founded the European Defence League.

Tommy Robinson (activist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


so you are saying this MI6 fascist revolutionary is an example of....what exactly?
EDL is some good thing?

how do you go from doing a hitler rant in one post - and hysterically defending this guy and this organization in the next?

....

Unmasked: wealthy backers behind far-right league

The Sunday Times by Dipesh Gadher and Robin Henry | Sunday, 11 December 2011

Alan Ayling aka Alan Lake

A property tycoon and a City-based financier quizzed by police over his links to the gunman who slaughtered 69 people in Norway are exposed today as key figures behind the rise of the far-right English Defence League (EDL).

A Sunday Times investigation has revealed that Ann Marchini, a mother from Highgate, north London, and Alan Ayling, a former director of an investment fund, have sought to mould the thuggish anti-Muslim group into a credible political force.

They are both linked to the murky world of the online "counter-jihad" movement from which Anders Behring Breivik drew ideological inspiration before committing his massacre in Norway in July. They have remained in the shadows until now by using aliases on the internet to mask their true identities.

Breivik repeatedly mentioned the EDL in his 1,600-page "manifesto" and once belonged to an Oslo-based offshoot called the Norwegian Defence League.

The EDL, whose support has mushroomed since it was formed in Luton in 2009, has organised a string of protests against what it perceives as the growing "Islamisation" of Britain.

Many have descended into violence perpetrated by a hard core of football hooligans.

However, the "brains" behind the group — which plans to field candidates at the next council elections — come from a different background.

Marchini, who is thought to be in her fifties, runs a buy-to-let property empire from her £1.6m mock-Tudor home in Highgate, a leafy suburb usually associated with liberals.

Marchini, who is believed to be divorced from an Italian banker, operates under at least two aliases: "Gaia", the Earth goddess from Greek mythology, and "Dominique Devaux".

She is said to have helped organise a "pivotal" meeting between EDL figures and anti-jihad thinkers in July 2009 and recently attended a discussion where the EDL agreed to consider an electoral pact with the right-wing British Freedom party (BFP).

A report by Gaia on the BFP website states that Stephen Lennon, the EDL leader, "explained that the EDL need to move up a notch — they cannot go on forever staging street demos. They are still widely perceived as a rabble, and as such cannot possibly obtain funding or be taken seriously by the political class".

Marchini was photographed alongside Lennon, 28, at a far-right demonstration this year and the image was posted on the website of Hope Not Hate, an anti-fascist group. Her name and address also appeared on a leaked list of EDL donors.

The 2009 EDL meeting took place at the £500,000 flat of Ayling in the Barbican in central London. Lennon attended with two relatives from Luton.

Paul Ray, who claims to be a founder of the EDL, was also there. He says he travelled to the venue from Highgate with Marchini, whom he knew at the time as "Ann", "Gaia" or "Dominique". He says he had previously stayed for "a few months" at one of her rental flats on British Street in Bow, east London.

Ray regards the Barbican meeting as "pivotal". "It was the key people being brought together," he said. "It was bringing together the ideological and political side with the boots on the ground."

Two days after the meeting, Ray received an email from "Dominique Devaux", using the account "[email protected]". "Still very interested in helping EDF [sic] grow as a movement," it stated. It was signed off by "Ann".

Another email, seen by The Sunday Times, gives a mobile number used by Marchini for letting her properties.

Ayling, 57, has been operating under the alias "Alan Lake". He is an IT expert and was a director of Pacific Capital Investment Management until January this year. The fund was dissolved in August.

Last month Ayling was interviewed by officers from Scotland Yard at the behest of Norwegian police who were investigating whether he was a possible "mentor" of Breivik.

Paal-Fredrik Kraby, an Oslo police prosecutor, confirmed that "the man known as Alan Lake" had been questioned. "But his real name is not for us to give to the press," he said.

In an interview with a Norwegian newspaper nine days ago, Lake denied having any contact with Breivik. However, he admitted to having met a prolific anti-Islam blogger called "Fjordman". "People ought to read him, he is good," Lake said. Breivik named Fjordman 111 times in his manifesto.

In the same interview, Lake said Breivik was "wrong", but added the following about Norway's immigration policies: "You let in dangerous people who do not share your values, who will destroy your society and take your freedom. You will have to pay the price for that."

When shown a photograph of Lake last week, two separate sources at the Barbican confirmed that the man in the picture was Ayling. A man inside his flat denied he was Ayling when contacted over the intercom and refused to step outside. Ayling did not respond to a written list of questions.

Norwegian police say Lake was interviewed in London as a "witness". They have also spoken at length to Ray, 35, who voluntarily flew to Oslo to try to clear his name after speculation that he could have unwittingly inspired Breivik.

The Norwegian gunman, 32, who has been declared insane by psychiatrists, claimed in his manifesto that he once had an English mentor called "Richard (the Lionhearted)". Ray, a born-again Christian who subsequently fell out with the EDL, runs a blog called Lionheart.

When The Sunday Times first approached Marchini about her EDL links on November 30, she slammed the door shut on a reporter. Last week, she and her son, Paolo, hung up at least three times when contacted by telephone.

On Friday, a lawyer for Marchini said: "Ann Marchini does not operate under the alias of either Dominique Devaux or Gaia. She is a member of British Freedom, but joined only to show support for her personal friend Paul Weston [the chairman]."

Two names on Dominique Devaux's list of Facebook friends — Paolo and Bianca Marchini — disappeared on the same day.

Weston, a former UK Independence party candidate, said he could not recall befriending Devaux on Facebook. He described Breivik as "a psychopathic lunatic".

Lennon admitted knowing Marchini under the Devaux alias, but denied she was influential. He said Lake was a "nutjob" and had not been involved with the EDL "for ages". Lennon, a former member of the British National party, denied the EDL was racist and said Breivik was "a monster".

Unmasked: wealthy backers behind far-right league | The Sunday Times < click

....

Tycoons back new far-right grouping

ANDY MCSMITH Author Biography MONDAY 12 DECEMBER 2011

A property tycoon and a former investment fund manager have been named as the driving forces behind a plan to create a new force on the far-right of British politics.

The Independent revealed last week that the English Defence League plans to run candidates for the first time in local elections, after a deal with another far-right group, the British Freedom Party, formed by former members of the British National Party.

Ann Marchini, who runs a buy-to-let property empire, confirmed to The Sunday Times that she is a member of the British Freedom Party and a friend of its chairman, Paul Weston.

Tycoons back new far-right grouping - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

...

you have convinced me you're not particularly naive, AoK. now what?
follow the money, i guess.
you know where this leads, right?
maybe a thread in the Conspiracy forum and link back to it here?

zone

the scripted rants and handy histories are so familiar at this point...it's hard not to know it immediately.

Last summer in Stockholm: Robert Spencer, Kev Carroll, Pamela Geller, Tommy Robinson

[Robert Spencer; Kevin Carroll; Pamela Geller; Stephen Yaxley Lennon aka Tommy Robinson - Stockholm August 2012]

Photo from left: Tommy Robinson, Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, and Anders Gravers in Freedom Rally in Stockholm, Sweden , summer 2012

Atlas Shrugs: COUNTER JIHAD FRONT < click

....


ugh. anyways.....

 

[Drett]

And you keep ignoring centuries of Muslim atrocities with hundreds of millions murdered and enslaved by the Muslims and just zero in on a little slice of history claiming that it was the reason for the modern conflict for some bizarre reason that is patently false.

I covered a wide range of events. For some reason you have forgotten them all.

The Romans and Persian ignored the Muslims because they saw them as "people who eat the skin of dead animals". They were not going to be left alone now they were united.

In the end the Jews got back into Jerusalem because of the Muslim. If the Muslims did not remove the oppression from the land then the Jews would not have had no land to seek refuge to when they were being persecuted.

I think what is glanced over is the Muslims took on two empires at the same time. They removed the Persian empire that the Romans could not do. They forced the Romans back to Europe. They liberated Jerusalem from oppression and brought peace. They could have only done this if they had God on their side.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

I covered a wide range of events. For some reason you have forgotten them all.

I think these are what are known as "inconvenient truths".

I think what is glanced over is the Muslims took on two empires at the same time. They removed the Persian empire that the Romans could not do. They forced the Romans back to Europe. They liberated Jerusalem from oppression and brought peace. They could have only done this if they had God on their side.

So God is always on the side of the victor? Isn't this a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy? By that way of thinking, God was also on the Georges' side when they started all those wars in the Middle East. Might is right. I don't think that's what you believe. But I don't think Muslim victories mean God was on their side, either. Victory these days seems to go to he who is prepared to commit the greatest atrocities.

 

[zone]

Re: Massacre Nairobi Kenya Mall Attack . Kenya: 'If You Were Muslim They Let You Go'

BOGUS FALSE FLAG.
yet another one.

and to what end? look at the dialectic in this thread [Re: Massacre Nairobi Kenya Mall Attack . Kenya: 'If You Were Muslim They Let You Go'].
same same.

http://christianchat.com/conspiracy...paganda-revolutionary-snares.html#post1222663 < click

tsk tsk

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

It's true that totalitarianism is a manifestation of Islamic law for everyone; however, most of the laws I was listing were designated for Dhimmis. And, of course, the penalties were different alright. You got to continue breathing if you were a Muslim. It was a two class system; one for Muslims and one for Dhimmis. Muslims were favored, Dhimmis were oppressed.

Grief at the death of a beloved person is normal, and weeping for the dead (by males or females) is perfectly acceptable in Islam. However, wailing or loud crying is forbidden. Islam prohibits the expression of grief by loud wailing (bewailing refers to mourning in a loud voice), shrieking, beating the chest and cheeks, tearing hair or clothes, breaking objects, scratching faces or speaking phrases that make a Muslim lose faith, although much latitude is granted in practice, as fatigue and emotion can adversely affect ones' behavior, and such behavior is rarely censured.

And once again, you're leaving out that the badges those Christians and Jews whom were allowed to keep breathing and live in totalitarianism were forced to wear upon pain of death by Muslims carried with them a harsher set of laws and penalties outside of their sequestered areas.

Now most of the Jews in Spain force converted during the Spanish Catholic Inquisition; however, about two hundred thousand instead left. They went all over the place from Portugal and other European areas outside of Spain to Muslim lands which named them the Sephardim. Without going into the Spanish Inquisition, which was a bat-sh*t crazy affair in general, part of the problem was the degree of traitorous complicity which the Jews had played in the earlier Muslim invasion of Southern Europe including Spain. The Jews participated heavily in the white slavery of Europeans afterwards under Muslim rule. Neither the Roman Catholic Church nor Spain had forgiven them.

For those emigrating to Muslim areas, they were considered second-class citizens, oppressed, taxed, etc... but were free to practice their own religion, participate in commerce, and work as translators. The Muslims used them as a political pawns as well somewhat.

I will have to read up on the Saladins secretaries diaries. I have not seen them before.

A lot of the laws that applied to Dhimmis also applied to Muslims. Muslims also were not allowed to mourn loudly. It is not because they did not like their voice. If you believe in the afterlife then you should not need to mourn loudly.

Also Muslim men were not allowed to touch Muslim women so it was more respect for women.

The distinctive badge was so the police would not apply Muslim laws on the Dhimmis. It was to allow more freedom for them. If the police saw someone was not praying and wearing the badge they would leave them alone.

People do not want to be ruled by others and it looked like there was some distortion of the truth to make their plight look bad. In the end history shows Jewish people sort refuge in Muslims lands.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Thanks for the info Zone. I'll look it over. Interesting.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Good point MR. God sure is fickle by Drett's way of reasoning. So after supporting the Islamic genocide of India and enslavement of Europeans he suddenly changed his mind and supported their expulsion from Europe and Spain beginning with Frankish victories. God was then for European reconquesta. Lol. I think Drett is a confused Muslim.

I think these are what are known as "inconvenient truths".

So God is always on the side of the victor? Isn't this a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy? By that way of thinking, God was also on the Georges' side when they started all those wars in the Middle East. Might is right. I don't think that's what you believe. But I don't think Muslim victories mean God was on their side, either. Victory these days seems to go to he who is prepared to commit the greatest atrocities.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Interesting video I just found on how Dutch Muslim youth feel about Jews:

[video=youtube_share;n_h5s1yjsTI]http://youtu.be/n_h5s1yjsTI[/video]

"Liberal Progressive Socialists scream Islamophobia when Gert Wilders said that Islam is intolerant and would never fit into civilized western European society. Of course anyone with a brain knew this was true. Gert Wilders was even charged for saying this as a hate crime, which later on he was vindicated. Wilders was correct. Islam teaches Moslems to be intolerant, not only towards Jews, but towards other people including atheists, Christians and other non-Muslims.

The Netherlands had a significant Jewish population before WW II and they were murdered by Hitler in vast numbers. Now Liberal immigration has brought in millions of Muslims in an effort to have a diverse multicultural society, but they didn't realize that Muslim culture is ANTI-SEMITIC, racist and anti-west.

Attacks on Jews is ramping up in the UK, USA, Norway, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, France, Canada, Ireland, Sweden, Belgium, Spain, Denmark and all over Europe and the western world...and the majority of those attacks are done by Muslims who are just reacting from their Islamic upbringing and the hateful Quran and words of Muhammad."

 

[Drett]

I think these are what are known as "inconvenient truths".

So God is always on the side of the victor? Isn't this a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy? By that way of thinking, God was also on the Georges' side when they started all those wars in the Middle East. Might is right. I don't think that's what you believe. But I don't think Muslim victories mean God was on their side, either. Victory these days seems to go to he who is prepared to commit the greatest atrocities.

Hi M

God is not always on the side of the victor. Sometimes the true believer needs a shock to bring them back to God.

Jerusalem was under oppression during Roman rule. They destroyed the temple and used the area as a garbage dump. They expelled all Jews and would not let them come back in. The Muslims liberated Jerusalem and allowed the Jews back in and pray freely. They removed the garbage from temple mount. When Muslims turned away from God (aok has kindly documented examples of this) and became oppressors and followed their own desires, Jerusalem was taken away from them and corruption returned to Jerusalem.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

This is interesting. Zone was questioning the official Kenyan statements of the mall attack and now it appears the NYPD agrees with her: NYPD report into Kenya mall attack suggests only four shooters involved, and all may have escaped | Fox News