"Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

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1

1still_waters

Guest
#1
"Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

Michael Brown of Charisma magazine is calling on John MacArthur to humble himself.

MacArthur is about to start a conference called "Strange Fire". It's an expose of sorts of the Charasmatic movement.

Here is the article.

A Final Appeal to Pastor John MacArthur on the Eve of His 'Strange Fire' Conference

As I write these words, the Holy Spiritis moving mightily around the earth, saving lost sinners, bringing rebels to repentance, healing sick bodies, setting captives free and, above all, glorifying the name of Jesus. According to pastor John MacArthur, however, this is actually “a farce and a scam.” In his new book Strange Fire, he claims that this work of the Spirit actually represents “the explosive growth of a false church, as dangerous as any cult or heresy that has ever assaulted Christianity,” and he calls for a “collective war” against these alleged “pervasive abuses on the Spirit of God.”


Yes, Pastor MacArthur has branded the charismatic movement a “false church” and is calling for an all-out war against it.
For a man of his stature, a man who has done so much good for the body of Christ, this is a tragic error, a decided step in the wrong direction and a rejection of both the testimony of the written Word and the work of the Spirit today.For the last several months, I have requested a face-to-face meeting with Pastor MacArthur to discuss our differences, but that request has been denied (either by him or by his team). Tomorrow, Oct. 16, he will begin a three-day “Strange Fire” conference, preparing the way for the release of his book next month.


(I received an advanced review copy from the publisher; all quotes here are from the introduction and should be checked against the final text of the book.)
In this book, Pastor MacArthur argues, “The ‘Holy Spirit’ found in the vast majority of charismatic teaching and practice bears no resemblance to the true Spirit of God as revealed in Scripture,” even accusing the moderncharismatic movement of “attributing the work of the devil to the Holy Spirit.”In fact, he claims that leaders of the movement are “Satan’s false teachers, marching to the beat of their own illicit desires, gladly propagat[ing] his errors. They are spiritual swindlers, con men, crooks, and charlatans.”This is divisive and destructive language based on misinformation and exaggeration, as Pastor MacArthur attributes the extreme errors of a tiny minority to countless hundreds of thousands of godly leaders worldwide.

I have worked side by side with some of these fine men and women myself, precious saints who have risked their lives for the name of Jesus, giving themselves sacrificially to touch a hurting and dying world with the gospel, literally shedding their blood rather than compromise their testimonies—yet an internationally recognized pastor calls many of them “Satan’s false teachers ... spiritual swindlers, con men, crooks, and charlatans.”
May the Lord forgive him for these rash words.


He claims, “As a movement, they have persistently ignored the truth about the Holy Spirit and with reckless license set up an idol spirit in the house of God, blaspheming the third member of the Trinity in His own name.”
So Pastor MacArthur, in writing and obviously with much forethought, is accusing hundreds of millions of believers of blaspheming the Spirit, thereby pronouncing them to be sinners damned to hell, since blasphemy of the Spirit is an unforgivable sin (Mark 3:29).Words fail to express how grievous this is.

He claims, “In recent history, no other movement has done more to damage the cause of the gospel, to distort the truth, and to smother the articulation of sound doctrine,” going as far as to say that “charismatic theology has made no contribution to true biblical theology or interpretation; rather, it represents a deviant mutation of truth.”
Aside from the sweeping inaccuracy of these charges—just a reading of one book, like Dr. Gordon Fee’s 992-page volume God's Empowering Presence: The Holy Spirit in the Letters of Paul, demolishes his position—what is truly painful is the knowledge that Pastor MacArthur's conference and book will do far more harm than good, driving hungry believers away from the Spirit’s work today and failing to bring needed correction to the real abuses that do exist because he has so overstated his case.


Although it would take a short book to respond to Pastor MacArthur’sStrange Fire, here are five rebuttals that need to be made:
1) Pastor MacArthur draws attention to bizarre practices like “toking the Ghost” (as in “getting high on the Holy Ghost”) or barking like dogs, things I have never seen in 42 years in charismatic-Pentecostal circles around the world and, in reality, practices that are no more representative of charismatics than Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church and his “God Hates Fags” signs are representative of Baptists.


Those reading MacArthur's book, however, would come to the completely erroneous conclusion that such bizarre, virtually unheard-of practices were the norm.
2) Pastor MacArthur points to some of the shameful, inexcusable scandals that have taken place among charismatic leaders, using this as proof that the Holy Spirit is not at work in our midst. Aside from the fact that Paul knew better than to do with this the Corinthians—he recognized what the Spirit was doing while correcting their errors and fleshly sins—Pastor MacArthur fails to realize these scandals are connected to celebrity and pride more than charismatic doctrines and practices.He also fails to realize that charismatic and Pentecostal leaders have addressed these issues for decades (until this day)—he wrongly claims that virtually no one dares to correct these abuses—and, more importantly, he downplays the many scandals that have plagued cessationist leaders as well.


(There is even a website devoted to exposing Southern Baptist sexual predators.)
3) While attributing gross doctrinal error to charismatics—in a pre-conference video, pastor Steve Lawson claims the fundamental problem with charismatics is their lack of serious engagement with the Word—Pastor MacArthur himself is guilty of poor exegesis of the scriptural passages that point to the ongoing, miraculous work of the Spirit today.He also ignores the fact that the great majority of those opposing his message on “lordship salvation” are cessationists, many of them preaching a very loose “once saved, always saved” doctrine that Pastor MacArthur himself opposes.4) In his own pre-conference video, Pastor MacArthur makes the absolutely false claim that 90 percent of charismatics worldwide are Word of Faith—it is actually a fairly small percentage, one which includes almost none of the major Pentecostal denominations. And so he mistakenly attributes an extreme prosperity doctrine to the vast majority of charismatics worldwide (meaning, the false belief that Jesus died to make us rich, as opposed to the true belief that God meets the needs of His people and blesses us to be a blessing to others).


Pastor MacArthur also takes the poorly chosen (or downright erroneous) words of a few Word of Faith leaders regarding the deity of Jesus and claims that this represents most (or all) charismatics. Again, nothing could be further from the truth.
5) The subtitle of Pastor MacArthur’s book is “The Danger of Offending theHoly Spirit With Counterfeit Worship,” yet it is the charismatic movement worldwide that is frequently the most devoted to worship, producing a steady flow of powerful new hymns and songs and hosting gatherings that last for hours or days, just devoted to worship and adoration of the Lord.


But because these gatherings are marked by biblically based displays of emotion and joy and passion, Pastor MacArthur writes them off as aberrant.
In the end, what saddens me the most is that this servant of the Lord fails to recognize what the Spirit is doing today. And so, rather than joining with his charismatic brothers and sisters to help spark renewal in the many dead and dying churches (many of them cessationist!) and to help reclaim the younger generation with the realities of a risen Savior, Pastor MacArthur has placed himself in opposition to much of the Spirit’s work, thereby hindering the spread of the gospel more than helping it.This also means he will not be able to help us rebuke error and deception and abuse, since he will turn off his intended audience with his inaccurate claims and extreme rhetoric.


And so, even though it seems futile at this point, once again, on the eve of the "Strange Fire" conference, I appeal to Pastor MacArthur to reconsider his ways, to re-examine what the Word really says about these issues, to travel to the nations and see firsthand what the Spirit is doing, and to sit with charismatic leaders to seek the Lord together for His best for the church and the world.
It’s not too late, sir, to humble yourself under God’s mighty hand, and I humble myself before you as I write these words, reaching out to you once more in the name of Jesus and urging you to recognize and embrace the Spirit’s true fire today.
 
M

Married_Richenbrachen

Guest
#2
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

Interesting. It surprises me that many charismatic churches have gotten away for this long without being called out as cults. That said, I'd be a bit hesitant to call all charismatic churches cults.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#3
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

is the "Strange Fire" Conference to be broadcast live?

 
K

kayem77

Guest
#4
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

I like John MarArthur's teaching. I hope they broadcast it live, it's gonna be interesting.
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#5
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

What gets me is that we always manage to hold people in high regard and then when they say or do something we tend to either be offended, disappointed, discouraged, angry, or plain old confused. If we would stop holding or considering this teacher or that teacher to be the final authority and start reading and studying the Bible on our own and discover what it says for ourselves we would be better off. Too many Christians rely on what a man says and simply go by it. Pick up your Bible, sit down and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you (you meaning everyone). People tend to flock to these huge stadiums to hear so and so speak and validate every word spoken without asking or even considering if this teacher - that teacher is even speaking the truth.
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
73
48
27
#6
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

Michael Brown of Charisma magazine is calling on John MacArthur to humble himself.

MacArthur is about to start a conference called "Strange Fire". It's an expose of sorts of the Charasmatic movement.

Here is the article.

A Final Appeal to Pastor John MacArthur on the Eve of His 'Strange Fire' Conference

As I write these words, the Holy Spiritis moving mightily around the earth, saving lost sinners, bringing rebels to repentance, healing sick bodies, setting captives free and, above all, glorifying the name of Jesus. According to pastor John MacArthur, however, this is actually “a farce and a scam.” In his new book Strange Fire, he claims that this work of the Spirit actually represents “the explosive growth of a false church, as dangerous as any cult or heresy that has ever assaulted Christianity,” and he calls for a “collective war” against these alleged “pervasive abuses on the Spirit of God.”


Yes, Pastor MacArthur has branded the charismatic movement a “false church” and is calling for an all-out war against it.
For a man of his stature, a man who has done so much good for the body of Christ, this is a tragic error, a decided step in the wrong direction and a rejection of both the testimony of the written Word and the work of the Spirit today.For the last several months, I have requested a face-to-face meeting with Pastor MacArthur to discuss our differences, but that request has been denied (either by him or by his team). Tomorrow, Oct. 16, he will begin a three-day “Strange Fire” conference, preparing the way for the release of his book next month.


(I received an advanced review copy from the publisher; all quotes here are from the introduction and should be checked against the final text of the book.)
In this book, Pastor MacArthur argues, “The ‘Holy Spirit’ found in the vast majority of charismatic teaching and practice bears no resemblance to the true Spirit of God as revealed in Scripture,” even accusing the moderncharismatic movement of “attributing the work of the devil to the Holy Spirit.”In fact, he claims that leaders of the movement are “Satan’s false teachers, marching to the beat of their own illicit desires, gladly propagat[ing] his errors. They are spiritual swindlers, con men, crooks, and charlatans.”This is divisive and destructive language based on misinformation and exaggeration, as Pastor MacArthur attributes the extreme errors of a tiny minority to countless hundreds of thousands of godly leaders worldwide.

I have worked side by side with some of these fine men and women myself, precious saints who have risked their lives for the name of Jesus, giving themselves sacrificially to touch a hurting and dying world with the gospel, literally shedding their blood rather than compromise their testimonies—yet an internationally recognized pastor calls many of them “Satan’s false teachers ... spiritual swindlers, con men, crooks, and charlatans.”
May the Lord forgive him for these rash words.


He claims, “As a movement, they have persistently ignored the truth about the Holy Spirit and with reckless license set up an idol spirit in the house of God, blaspheming the third member of the Trinity in His own name.”
So Pastor MacArthur, in writing and obviously with much forethought, is accusing hundreds of millions of believers of blaspheming the Spirit, thereby pronouncing them to be sinners damned to hell, since blasphemy of the Spirit is an unforgivable sin (Mark 3:29).Words fail to express how grievous this is.

He claims, “In recent history, no other movement has done more to damage the cause of the gospel, to distort the truth, and to smother the articulation of sound doctrine,” going as far as to say that “charismatic theology has made no contribution to true biblical theology or interpretation; rather, it represents a deviant mutation of truth.”
Aside from the sweeping inaccuracy of these charges—just a reading of one book, like Dr. Gordon Fee’s 992-page volume God's Empowering Presence: The Holy Spirit in the Letters of Paul, demolishes his position—what is truly painful is the knowledge that Pastor MacArthur's conference and book will do far more harm than good, driving hungry believers away from the Spirit’s work today and failing to bring needed correction to the real abuses that do exist because he has so overstated his case.


Although it would take a short book to respond to Pastor MacArthur’sStrange Fire, here are five rebuttals that need to be made:
1) Pastor MacArthur draws attention to bizarre practices like “toking the Ghost” (as in “getting high on the Holy Ghost”) or barking like dogs, things I have never seen in 42 years in charismatic-Pentecostal circles around the world and, in reality, practices that are no more representative of charismatics than Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church and his “God Hates Fags” signs are representative of Baptists.


Those reading MacArthur's book, however, would come to the completely erroneous conclusion that such bizarre, virtually unheard-of practices were the norm.
2) Pastor MacArthur points to some of the shameful, inexcusable scandals that have taken place among charismatic leaders, using this as proof that the Holy Spirit is not at work in our midst. Aside from the fact that Paul knew better than to do with this the Corinthians—he recognized what the Spirit was doing while correcting their errors and fleshly sins—Pastor MacArthur fails to realize these scandals are connected to celebrity and pride more than charismatic doctrines and practices.He also fails to realize that charismatic and Pentecostal leaders have addressed these issues for decades (until this day)—he wrongly claims that virtually no one dares to correct these abuses—and, more importantly, he downplays the many scandals that have plagued cessationist leaders as well.


(There is even a website devoted to exposing Southern Baptist sexual predators.)
3) While attributing gross doctrinal error to charismatics—in a pre-conference video, pastor Steve Lawson claims the fundamental problem with charismatics is their lack of serious engagement with the Word—Pastor MacArthur himself is guilty of poor exegesis of the scriptural passages that point to the ongoing, miraculous work of the Spirit today.He also ignores the fact that the great majority of those opposing his message on “lordship salvation” are cessationists, many of them preaching a very loose “once saved, always saved” doctrine that Pastor MacArthur himself opposes.4) In his own pre-conference video, Pastor MacArthur makes the absolutely false claim that 90 percent of charismatics worldwide are Word of Faith—it is actually a fairly small percentage, one which includes almost none of the major Pentecostal denominations. And so he mistakenly attributes an extreme prosperity doctrine to the vast majority of charismatics worldwide (meaning, the false belief that Jesus died to make us rich, as opposed to the true belief that God meets the needs of His people and blesses us to be a blessing to others).


Pastor MacArthur also takes the poorly chosen (or downright erroneous) words of a few Word of Faith leaders regarding the deity of Jesus and claims that this represents most (or all) charismatics. Again, nothing could be further from the truth.
5) The subtitle of Pastor MacArthur’s book is “The Danger of Offending theHoly Spirit With Counterfeit Worship,” yet it is the charismatic movement worldwide that is frequently the most devoted to worship, producing a steady flow of powerful new hymns and songs and hosting gatherings that last for hours or days, just devoted to worship and adoration of the Lord.


But because these gatherings are marked by biblically based displays of emotion and joy and passion, Pastor MacArthur writes them off as aberrant.
In the end, what saddens me the most is that this servant of the Lord fails to recognize what the Spirit is doing today. And so, rather than joining with his charismatic brothers and sisters to help spark renewal in the many dead and dying churches (many of them cessationist!) and to help reclaim the younger generation with the realities of a risen Savior, Pastor MacArthur has placed himself in opposition to much of the Spirit’s work, thereby hindering the spread of the gospel more than helping it.This also means he will not be able to help us rebuke error and deception and abuse, since he will turn off his intended audience with his inaccurate claims and extreme rhetoric.


And so, even though it seems futile at this point, once again, on the eve of the "Strange Fire" conference, I appeal to Pastor MacArthur to reconsider his ways, to re-examine what the Word really says about these issues, to travel to the nations and see firsthand what the Spirit is doing, and to sit with charismatic leaders to seek the Lord together for His best for the church and the world.
It’s not too late, sir, to humble yourself under God’s mighty hand, and I humble myself before you as I write these words, reaching out to you once more in the name of Jesus and urging you to recognize and embrace the Spirit’s true fire today.
All I can say is... HIDE! RUN FOR COVER!! This guy sounds like bad news to me. And I don't want any part of it. If they broadcast, I'm not watching. I'm not going to watch someone bash a certain congregation.


 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#7
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

Live Stream

Live Stream
 
Jul 25, 2005
2,417
34
0
#8
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

Live Stream

Here is the link, ladies and gents. Hope ya'll tune in.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#9
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

I'm not an fan of Michael Brown at all, but he does have a point. I can watch all the charismatic TV preachers and go all the charismatic churches that are in the news and come up with exactly what Johnny Mac did. That's the point. I can't judge a congregation of 80 by a congregation of 3,000. I can't even judge a congregation of 3000 by another congregation of 3000. They are all different. To judge an entire denomination by what those under the bright lights do is stereotyping at best.

I've liked Johnny Mac for over 30 years. He's been a good no-nonsense preacher. But 30 years of good reputation cannot excuse what he's about to do. We all know what's going to happen....... Thousands will show up at his conference, millions will buy his book. They will applaud him as a champion. They will love him for saying what they wanted to say. Some on this thread already have.....lol! But then again, that's the point. He will be telling them what they want to hear....... Good old fashioned ear-tickling.


To make things worse, his judgment on the entire denomination is indeed blasphemous. Calling all of their worship of the devil is exactly what the scribes and pharisees did to Jesus. To say that all charismatics believe in Word of Faith doctrine is heretical. We all know that not all Lutherans believe everything Martin Luther taught. We all know that not all Baptists are alike. It would be foolish to put them all in the same box. Such people are simply grandstanding, showing their ignorance. Now Johnny Mac's ignorance is showing. That's a shame. While he will gain thousands of fans, he will lose thousands more, such as myself.


There's no way on God's green earth anyone could know such information on an entire denomination unless God himself told them. Someone would have to go through the entire United States, visiting churches at random both small and large to come up with a final result like this. Johnny Mac has sinned and now he is promoting others to do the same thing. I pray he will see the truth & repent.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#10
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

presumably they'll be discussing practices and beliefs/foundations.

i'm not particularly interested in what Creflo Dollar did with his income taxes.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#11
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

presumably they'll be discussing practices and beliefs/foundations.

i'm not particularly interested in what Creflo Dollar did with his income taxes.

...

3:15 p.m.General Session 3: Steve Lawson - :)
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#12
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

Let me make something perfectly clear, lest folks will think I'm one sided.
Is there a strange fire in the modern church? YES THERE IS. It has infiltrated several denominations, including the charismatic church. It is in most major denominations, including Baptist, Lutheran, catholic, Methodist, and my own, Pentecostal. It's heresies are damning and destructive. Let's also not forget that universalism and other such heresies are infiltrating the church. I'm not totally against John Macarthur. Sin needs to be called out on the carpet. But condemning an entire denomination is not the way to do it.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#13
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

All I can say is... HIDE! RUN FOR COVER!! This guy sounds like bad news to me. And I don't want any part of it. If they broadcast, I'm not watching. I'm not going to watch someone bash a certain congregation.
John MacArthur is pretty solid actually. It's not a bashing, but a warning about the false spirits that most who call themselves Pentecostal embrace.

Example:
[video=youtube;5lvU-DislkI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI[/video]
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#14
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference



I'm looking forward to it. Especially all the expository preaching. :)

It's time to really call out on a large united scale the Word of Faith garbage that is passed off as sound doctrine in Pentecostal churches.
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
73
48
27
#15
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

John MacArthur is pretty solid actually. It's not a bashing, but a warning about the false spirits that most who call themselves Pentecostal embrace.
Like Stephen said, he's generalizing and clumping a whole denomination as false. Thing is, it's not. I know we don't agree on certain things, but I think you and I both can agree that not all Pentecostal or Charismatic churches are bad or false in teaching and worship. I can tell you right now, it doesn't matter what denomination you choose, there's always going to be a bad apple in the bunch. But we can't just see that one bad apple and then say, "All the apples are rotten!"
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#16
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

Did you hear what He just said about OSAS?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#17
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

Could just hear him out and see what he has to say.
Some say don't toss out the baby with the bathwater, then they turn around say, Well I ain't gonna listen to anything that fella is saying.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#18
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

He said we need the Holy Spirit as revealed in scripture....... This is a man who denies the HS's empowerment of the church in the last days even when it is written in scripture.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#19
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

He said we need the Holy Spirit as revealed in scripture....... This is a man who denies the HS's empowerment of the church in the last days even when it is written in scripture.
He denies that the Holy Spirit is going to reveal Jesus to people?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#20
Re: "Humble yourself" John MacArthur Says Charisma Writer: Strange Fire Conference

He just said the ultimate work of the Holy Spirit is to conform us to the image of the Son of God.
Sounds like he believes the Holy Spirit is still active today and empowering the church to become the image of Christ.