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No one has the stomach for war. At most they'll do more sanctions, which will do even more harm to the innocent people of North Korea.
If they want to help North Korea, they need to end the sanctions, and normalize relations like they did with China and the USSR. These regimes collapse with daylight, not more sanctions and resolutions which exist solely for the purposes of making them feel good.
If they want to help North Korea, they need to end the sanctions, and normalize relations like they did with China and the USSR. These regimes collapse with daylight, not more sanctions and resolutions which exist solely for the purposes of making them feel good.
1
China could force us to end the sanctions or else raise interest rates on our debt.
NK is actually opening up some. Tourism is up. Foreigners can bring in cell phones and actually use Twitter while in country. Citizens have cell phones too, but no access to the outside. But the fact cell phones are allowed, tourism is up, and foreigners can use cells shows they are opening up. It's the sanctions that are killling NK. NK probably wouldn't need China if they didnt have sanctions.
NK is actually opening up some. Tourism is up. Foreigners can bring in cell phones and actually use Twitter while in country. Citizens have cell phones too, but no access to the outside. But the fact cell phones are allowed, tourism is up, and foreigners can use cells shows they are opening up. It's the sanctions that are killling NK. NK probably wouldn't need China if they didnt have sanctions.
K
I read the article today. Couldn't help but remember president Obama's ''outrage'' over Syria supposedly attacking its own citizens with chemical weapons, to the point where he wanted to start a war. I'm wondering why noone wants to start a war over this? More than a million people have died under this oppresive government. Oh yeah....North Korea doesn't have any resources to be exploited.
I know deciding to start a war is not a simple thing to do, but it just reminds me how hypocritical some politicians are when they say they want to invade a country in order to protect people. Seriously, we know it's all about convenience, just stop saying you do it because you have such a big heart. As I was reading the article, I couldn't help but get teary eyed thinking of how much the Koreans have to suffer under the awful totalitarian leadership of Kim Jong-un. Praying this oppression ends and the authorities are brought to trial.
I know deciding to start a war is not a simple thing to do, but it just reminds me how hypocritical some politicians are when they say they want to invade a country in order to protect people. Seriously, we know it's all about convenience, just stop saying you do it because you have such a big heart. As I was reading the article, I couldn't help but get teary eyed thinking of how much the Koreans have to suffer under the awful totalitarian leadership of Kim Jong-un. Praying this oppression ends and the authorities are brought to trial.
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There isn't a once size fits all policy for intervention.
I don't think it's purposeful hypocrisy.
Intervention needs the right mix of political capital/public support, national interest, world support, and actual ability of the military to do the job.
Libya was doable because there was a decent balance of all of the above.
North Korea would be a major major battle. You couldn't win it with air power most likely.
I don't think it's purposeful hypocrisy.
Intervention needs the right mix of political capital/public support, national interest, world support, and actual ability of the military to do the job.
Libya was doable because there was a decent balance of all of the above.
North Korea would be a major major battle. You couldn't win it with air power most likely.
K
It is, when you have claimed that it is the reason for an intervention. Pretending to be so concerned for people that you want to sacrifice your army/capital is different from being concerned about political correctness, economics, international relationships, goods,etc.
I understand there isn't a single policy that fits all, but lying is lying. Also, most interventions that a country sees fit to pursue are supported by propaganda. That's how they gain public support. No one wants to send their people to war unless they believe is the right cause, and propaganda is the means to convince people of that. The only hindrance in reality would be capital.
Anyway, I don't know what the solution is for North Korea, but I don't believe ignoring the problem is an option. I don't know what the best option is, but I just believe that ignoring it is not it.
I understand there isn't a single policy that fits all, but lying is lying. Also, most interventions that a country sees fit to pursue are supported by propaganda. That's how they gain public support. No one wants to send their people to war unless they believe is the right cause, and propaganda is the means to convince people of that. The only hindrance in reality would be capital.
Anyway, I don't know what the solution is for North Korea, but I don't believe ignoring the problem is an option. I don't know what the best option is, but I just believe that ignoring it is not it.
You're largely right, but sometimes you need a few sticks in order for the carrots to work. Asking for or propagating the notion of openness isn't enough. At times the door has to be forcibly propped open (not necessarily by force of arms though having them helps).
Yeah, there are a lot of analysts who think that there will be no North Korea or South Korea in ten to twenty years.
It's more than resource interest, in my opinion. People still fundamentally go to war over a mixture of national honor and security. North Korea is different for the Western World in that North Korea was sewn up to a certain extent in the 1950's very little has fundamentally changed with that country. While it was left to fester, I think Eisenhower ended it so it looked like something to put in the West's "W" column.
Obama's focus will naturally be on the Muslim world and issues of honor/security in that area. I am not saying he is a Muslim- I would bet my bank account on the fact he isn't. What I am saying is that his personal ties to that area of the world would increase his proclivity toward intervention.
Yeah, there are a lot of analysts who think that there will be no North Korea or South Korea in ten to twenty years.
It's more than resource interest, in my opinion. People still fundamentally go to war over a mixture of national honor and security. North Korea is different for the Western World in that North Korea was sewn up to a certain extent in the 1950's very little has fundamentally changed with that country. While it was left to fester, I think Eisenhower ended it so it looked like something to put in the West's "W" column.
Obama's focus will naturally be on the Muslim world and issues of honor/security in that area. I am not saying he is a Muslim- I would bet my bank account on the fact he isn't. What I am saying is that his personal ties to that area of the world would increase his proclivity toward intervention.
I would really like to know exactly where you are coming from here.
Is propaganda inherently a form of deceit in your estimation?
Do you believe that people can be rallied to go to war without propaganda or at least comparatively low levels of propaganda?
I agree, but I do not believe military intervention and nation-building is the answer. The best possible solution would be to, like I said, make a concerted effort at weakening the regime, empowering the people of North Korea, and perhaps aiding South Korea in whatever way possible with it's efforts toward reunification.
Not altogether unlike what happened in Germany twenty-five years ago.
Do I know the exact way to execute those objectives? No. I am not an expert on North Korea or foreign policy. What I do know is that this general route is preferable to both willful lassitude and direct military intervention.
Is propaganda inherently a form of deceit in your estimation?
Do you believe that people can be rallied to go to war without propaganda or at least comparatively low levels of propaganda?
I agree, but I do not believe military intervention and nation-building is the answer. The best possible solution would be to, like I said, make a concerted effort at weakening the regime, empowering the people of North Korea, and perhaps aiding South Korea in whatever way possible with it's efforts toward reunification.
Not altogether unlike what happened in Germany twenty-five years ago.
Do I know the exact way to execute those objectives? No. I am not an expert on North Korea or foreign policy. What I do know is that this general route is preferable to both willful lassitude and direct military intervention.
D
North Korea is an interesting situation. Can blow up at anytime, on neighboring country or on themselves. Thats what makes it crazy to the West. North Korea is almost completely supported by China. China is a founding member of the UN so i find this alittle disturbing. Durring the last time they threatend the US(they do this every year) China and Vietnam told North Korea to zip it. so i do think that this problem is being worked on. We might not hear alot about it since it would be China talking to North Korea, cant imagine many US reporters being invited to those talks. South Korea has been putting stronger and stronger Wifi towers along the border to get the internet into the country. I have heard that the people there are so brainwashed that the people there believe they are the best country in the world and that there isnt any hope. War im sure is on the table, but i dont think we will have to use it. If we were to force China to make a stand on the subject they wouldnt side with North Korea, and we would force it to an end.
K
I would really like to know exactly where you are coming from here.
Is propaganda inherently a form of deceit in your estimation?
Do you believe that people can be rallied to go to war without propaganda or at least comparatively low levels of propaganda?
This was a response to the previous past before this one, where I said it was hipocrisy to say that interventions came from a concerned heart rather than political & economical interest. What I meant to say is that saying a country intervenes out of pure concern for people is most of the times a lie. It just reminded me of that time not long ago Obama said the crimes against Syrian civilians were so horrible that he couldn't let them go unpunished, when here and now , and for a long period of time, we have a clear example of crimes going unpunished. Just pointing out the contradiction.
hn regards of propaganda, I believe it can be deceitful(which is very common), but that wasn't exactly my point. My point was that public and world support are not that hard to accomplish. We have examples of that. Nazi Germany (yeah I know everyone mentions it, but it's a good example
), and even the propaganda that was used during World War II here in the US. There is propaganda to increase the number of recruits right now.
I agree, but I do not believe military intervention and nation-building is the answer. The best possible solution would be to, like I said, make a concerted effort at weakening the regime, empowering the people of North Korea, and perhaps aiding South Korea in whatever way possible with it's efforts toward reunification.
Not altogether unlike what happened in Germany twenty-five years ago.
Do I know the exact way to execute those objectives? No. I am not an expert on North Korea or foreign policy. What I do know is that this general route is preferable to both willful lassitude and direct military intervention.
I agree weakening the regime would be the answer, but as I said, I don't know what would be the best way to accomplish that would be. I just know that not doing anything about it doesn't help. I'm not expert either, so that's my humble opinion, because doing nothing has never done anyone no good.
Is propaganda inherently a form of deceit in your estimation?
Do you believe that people can be rallied to go to war without propaganda or at least comparatively low levels of propaganda?
This was a response to the previous past before this one, where I said it was hipocrisy to say that interventions came from a concerned heart rather than political & economical interest. What I meant to say is that saying a country intervenes out of pure concern for people is most of the times a lie. It just reminded me of that time not long ago Obama said the crimes against Syrian civilians were so horrible that he couldn't let them go unpunished, when here and now , and for a long period of time, we have a clear example of crimes going unpunished. Just pointing out the contradiction.
hn regards of propaganda, I believe it can be deceitful(which is very common), but that wasn't exactly my point. My point was that public and world support are not that hard to accomplish. We have examples of that. Nazi Germany (yeah I know everyone mentions it, but it's a good example
), and even the propaganda that was used during World War II here in the US. There is propaganda to increase the number of recruits right now. I agree, but I do not believe military intervention and nation-building is the answer. The best possible solution would be to, like I said, make a concerted effort at weakening the regime, empowering the people of North Korea, and perhaps aiding South Korea in whatever way possible with it's efforts toward reunification.
Not altogether unlike what happened in Germany twenty-five years ago.
Do I know the exact way to execute those objectives? No. I am not an expert on North Korea or foreign policy. What I do know is that this general route is preferable to both willful lassitude and direct military intervention.
I agree weakening the regime would be the answer, but as I said, I don't know what would be the best way to accomplish that would be. I just know that not doing anything about it doesn't help. I'm not expert either, so that's my humble opinion, because doing nothing has never done anyone no good.
This was a response to the previous past before this one, where I said it was hipocrisy to say that interventions came from a concerned heart rather than political & economical interest. What I meant to say is that saying a country intervenes out of pure concern for people is most of the times a lie. It just reminded me of that time not long ago Obama said the crimes against Syrian civilians were so horrible that he couldn't let them go unpunished, when here and now , and for a long period of time, we have a clear example of crimes going unpunished. Just pointing out the contradiction.
hn regards of propaganda, I believe it can be deceitful(which is very common), but that wasn't exactly my point. My point was that public and world support are not that hard to accomplish. We have examples of that. Nazi Germany (yeah I know everyone mentions it, but it's a good example), and even the propaganda that was used during World War II here in the US. There is propaganda to increase the number of recruits right now.
I agree weakening the regime would be the answer, but as I said, I don't know what would be the best way to accomplish that would be. I just know that not doing anything about it doesn't help. I'm not expert either, so that's my humble opinion, because doing nothing has never done anyone no good.
hn regards of propaganda, I believe it can be deceitful(which is very common), but that wasn't exactly my point. My point was that public and world support are not that hard to accomplish. We have examples of that. Nazi Germany (yeah I know everyone mentions it, but it's a good example
), and even the propaganda that was used during World War II here in the US. There is propaganda to increase the number of recruits right now. I agree weakening the regime would be the answer, but as I said, I don't know what would be the best way to accomplish that would be. I just know that not doing anything about it doesn't help. I'm not expert either, so that's my humble opinion, because doing nothing has never done anyone no good.
I think you overestimate the value of propaganda. It is usually the spark that lights the tinder. It appeals to conceptions or misconceptions already present in the population and propels them to action or accepting the inevitability of action upon them.
And I suppose I do not see propaganda as you do at the moment to increase recruitment rates. The latest military ad campaign appears to focus on the less-violent aspects of the military "I WANT TO BE A GRAPHIC DESIGNER, SIR!"
Again, I'm splitting hairs. You're right, it isn't necessarily deceit, and that is what I wanted to know.
One final disagreement (that appears to be all I'm good for at the moment): sometimes doing nothing does help. It just has to be doing nothing with purpose if that makes any sense.