-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Are you just being the most condescending person I've ever met? Seriously. I am on the verge of cursing. Leave me alone. Every single comment you make towards me has been nasty, insults, and just plain mean. I don't know why you have chosen to become by far the worst person I've communicated with on Christian Chat, but you have.
D
Catholicism isn't heresy? The owner of this site says otherwise, and in essence I tend to agree with him (for good reasons). You shouldn't take my remarks that personally though; I don't get upset with your 'presence' either. Hey, cheer up, you may be a heretic, but I'm sure you're actually a nice person (bit quick-tempered, but still). 
P
Now that really is stretching word play to try and make the popes use of the word brothers to simple mean fellow human beings. I'm sure that that was not his intention for the Muslims he was referring to, to think of themselves simply as fellow human beings. In fact if that was his intention why did he single out Muslims for this elevated status. Why would he simply not have said "we are all fellow human beings". It was clearly his intention to try to curry favour with Muslims by setting them aside as having a "special relationship with his version of Christianity.
This is not a stretch nor is it a play on words. The fact of the matter is muslims are people and people are our brothers. This is the meaning of Francis' statement if you look at the focus of his statement, that we all have to work together towards common goals. Particularly Francis notes he does not like that people use God's name as an excuse to murder eachother. Not once does Francis say Islam is a legitimate religion. Francis is merely pointing out that brotherhood of humanity under God.
To the question of; why wouldn't Francis address the muslims as "fellow human beings" instead of "brothers." Well for one do not these mean the same thing? Therefore by addressing the people of the Middle East as "brothers" he has addressed them as "fellow human beings." For two, consider that Francis gave these remarks from the Dome of the Rock on his trip to meet with high level political and religious leaders muslim, jewish, and Christian, therefore his context is appropriate. Thirdly, you say why pick muslims for this "elevated status." However if the Bible is true and we are all descendants of Adam who was created by God then this is not an elevation in status, merely a recognition of current status.
To the question of; why wouldn't Francis address the muslims as "fellow human beings" instead of "brothers." Well for one do not these mean the same thing? Therefore by addressing the people of the Middle East as "brothers" he has addressed them as "fellow human beings." For two, consider that Francis gave these remarks from the Dome of the Rock on his trip to meet with high level political and religious leaders muslim, jewish, and Christian, therefore his context is appropriate. Thirdly, you say why pick muslims for this "elevated status." However if the Bible is true and we are all descendants of Adam who was created by God then this is not an elevation in status, merely a recognition of current status.
Loving our neighbor is not calling everyone saved....a brother to a christian is clear in scripture to have a very very specific definition....a brother is a fellow saved person. The pope using this language...
knew what he was saying...
and said it on purpose.
This is not a good thing.
If by chance the pope was just using brother to indicate fellow earth resident....he needs to study scripture a little more.
knew what he was saying...
and said it on purpose.
This is not a good thing.
If by chance the pope was just using brother to indicate fellow earth resident....he needs to study scripture a little more.
Pope Francis, the very head of "the true church" just said Muslims are brothers to Christians.
Why is the supposed head of the true Christian church calling followers of a false God brothers? Why is he giving this type of partnership and fellowship language to them?
Pope Francis declares a deep bond of fellowship when he declares a group of people brothers. He establishes a yoking with them. Once again we see where he is taking "the true church".
2 Cor 6
Pope Francis to Muslims: we must confront common challenges
Pope lay ground for one world religion. This is the real agenda behind. Yes we have to love all people, we have to love our enemy, we have to love Pope as the the Lord tell us to do. But I don't believe this is the agenda. If the agenda is to love our enemy, He must call Buddhist a brother and Hindus a brother. Vatican also believe that Muslim and Catholic have the same God it state in lumengentium II/16
If the two big religions combined it will be powerful Both of them have history of Jihad, killing without mercy.
P
Well, I think we may have to agree to disagree on this point. The use of the word brothers in any religious context is in my experience a recognition of a spiritual bond between individuals and I feel that this was certainly what the pope intended to be understood by his use of the term, to think otherwise would be very strange and really quite pointless....but I suppose as neither you nor I are privy to the popes thoughts, we will never really know. All that I do know is that " salvation belongs to our Lord, and to His son, who sits upon the throne." And that Lrd is Yahweh....not the false god Allah
Catholic God is same with Muslim God and is Allah.
[TABLE="class: contentpaneopen, width: 639"]
[TR]
[TD="class: contentheading"]Lumen Gentium: Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (excerpt)[/TD]
[TD="class: buttonheading, width: 100%, align: right"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: buttonheading, width: 100%, align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: contentpaneopen, width: 639"]
[TR]
[TD]WRITTEN BY SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: createdate"]NOVEMBER 21, 1964[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is, first, that people to whom the covenants and promises were made, and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom. 9:4*-5): in view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Rom. 11:28-*29). But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. Nor is God remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25*-28), and since the Savior wills everyone to be saved (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may attain eternal salvation.[SUP]19[/SUP]Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is considered by the Church to be a preparation for the Gospel[SUP]20[/SUP] and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life. But very often, deceived by the Evil One, people have lost their way in their thinking, have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and served the creature rather than the Creator (cf. Rom. 1:21 and 25). Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair. Hence to procure the glory of God and the salvation of all these people, the Church, mindful of the Lord’s command, "preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mk. 16:16) takes great care to encourage the missions.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: contentpaneopen, width: 639"]
[TR]
[TD="class: contentheading"]Lumen Gentium: Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (excerpt)[/TD]
[TD="class: buttonheading, width: 100%, align: right"]
[TD="class: buttonheading, width: 100%, align: right"]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: contentpaneopen, width: 639"]
[TR]
[TD]WRITTEN BY SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: createdate"]NOVEMBER 21, 1964[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is, first, that people to whom the covenants and promises were made, and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom. 9:4*-5): in view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Rom. 11:28-*29). But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. Nor is God remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25*-28), and since the Savior wills everyone to be saved (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may attain eternal salvation.[SUP]19[/SUP]Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is considered by the Church to be a preparation for the Gospel[SUP]20[/SUP] and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life. But very often, deceived by the Evil One, people have lost their way in their thinking, have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and served the creature rather than the Creator (cf. Rom. 1:21 and 25). Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair. Hence to procure the glory of God and the salvation of all these people, the Church, mindful of the Lord’s command, "preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mk. 16:16) takes great care to encourage the missions.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
P
Catholic God is same with Muslim God and is Allah.
[TABLE="class: contentpaneopen, width: 639"]
[TR]
[TD="class: contentheading"]Lumen Gentium: Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (excerpt)[/TD]
[TD="class: buttonheading, width: 100%, align: right"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: buttonheading, width: 100%, align: right"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: contentpaneopen, width: 639"]
[TR]
[TD]WRITTEN BY SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: createdate"]NOVEMBER 21, 1964[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is, first, that people to whom the covenants and promises were made, and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom. 9:4*-5): in view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Rom. 11:28-*29). But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. Nor is God remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25*-28), and since the Savior wills everyone to be saved (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may attain eternal salvation.[SUP]19[/SUP]Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is considered by the Church to be a preparation for the Gospel[SUP]20[/SUP] and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life. But very often, deceived by the Evil One, people have lost their way in their thinking, have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and served the creature rather than the Creator (cf. Rom. 1:21 and 25). Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair. Hence to procure the glory of God and the salvation of all these people, the Church, mindful of the Lord’s command, "preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mk. 16:16) takes great care to encourage the missions.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: contentpaneopen, width: 639"]
[TR]
[TD="class: contentheading"]Lumen Gentium: Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (excerpt)[/TD]
[TD="class: buttonheading, width: 100%, align: right"]
[TD="class: buttonheading, width: 100%, align: right"]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: contentpaneopen, width: 639"]
[TR]
[TD]WRITTEN BY SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: createdate"]NOVEMBER 21, 1964[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is, first, that people to whom the covenants and promises were made, and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom. 9:4*-5): in view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Rom. 11:28-*29). But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. Nor is God remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25*-28), and since the Savior wills everyone to be saved (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may attain eternal salvation.[SUP]19[/SUP]Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is considered by the Church to be a preparation for the Gospel[SUP]20[/SUP] and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life. But very often, deceived by the Evil One, people have lost their way in their thinking, have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and served the creature rather than the Creator (cf. Rom. 1:21 and 25). Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair. Hence to procure the glory of God and the salvation of all these people, the Church, mindful of the Lord’s command, "preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mk. 16:16) takes great care to encourage the missions.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
B
LOL !! Funny stuff!! Please show me in the 'Second Vatican Council' where the Koran is mentioned??? It is not rocket science that people of Arabic descendants followed both Abraham & Jesus.... but they were not Muslims inspired by Mohammed & the Koran. Nice try fellas. The Second Vatican Council are specifically mentioning those Arabic who followed the Jewish or Christian faiths. As a matter of fact, one of the biggest Christian nation was Lebanon for many centuries until it was overrun by Muslim fanatics in the 20th century. The Second Vatican Council has absolutely nothing to do with the Koran & Muslim faith.
S
What is so shocking about that quote?
Allah is not the same God (there are too many differences), but to the Muslim... from what they have been taught.. it is the same God. In their heart they are praying to the God of the Old Testament. God has mercy on who he will have mercy, and has compassion on who he will have compassion. I see nothing wrong with that quote!
Allah is not the same God (there are too many differences), but to the Muslim... from what they have been taught.. it is the same God. In their heart they are praying to the God of the Old Testament. God has mercy on who he will have mercy, and has compassion on who he will have compassion. I see nothing wrong with that quote!
K
I believe Pope Francis' intent is to be inclusive of all men and women, no matter their choices in life. The Jesus Christ I know loved the tax collector and Pharisee and the leper and even me, and so I think the Pope is simply trying to mimic that behavior. He falls short, of course, like all of us and there will be this one and that one who points out those shortcomings and there will be witch hunters and angry watchmen who judge constantly with their endless tirade of spasmodic movement and scripture repeating that make exclusive the Love of God. I've been told to run from these places. i'm amazed any would think Catholics are the enemy here.