Conservative government in Australia dismantling freedom

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Mar 21, 2011
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damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
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It is hard rules, is it because of terrorism? Maybe?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Eight ways Tony Abbott is trying to trade freedom for security | World news | theguardian.com

It's a nightmare at the moment. A true New World Order, Big Brother reality that only a conservative party can dish out.

This government has lied so much to the Australian people.

Churches across Australia have been condemning this conservative right wing government.


But I know some people here are big fans....
10-1 the 'Churches' that are condemning the blah blah blah are miracle denying, bible denouncing, flaming liberal Churches who are in bed with Islamic groups hating Israel. Nice try David.
 
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gene77

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#5
I don't get why Australia of all countries has to get all flamed up about Islamic terrorists, when the terrorists' focus is more on Israel and America (the little Satan and the big Satan, as they have been called). Creating all this unnecessary pandemonium about terrorist attacks and security is only resulting in drawing the attention of the terrorists to Australia. India has seen quite a few terrorist attacks and I've personally witnessed religious attacks and brutal riots. Yet, I haven't seen a government or a Minister freak out as such. I do like Australia as a country. It's beautiful; and does consist of beautiful people. =) However, I do think that this whole "security" hoo-ha is quite over-the-top.

(Just an opinion from an outsider who has quite a few Australian friends.)
 
Aug 13, 2013
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In America it's just the opposite. It's the secular, progressive, liberal democrats who want to dismantle our freedom. Who knew?

Almost everyone. :)
 
Dec 18, 2013
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Reading this article makes one wonder if the Australian government is more interested in stopping Islam or in cracking down on their own people. I suppose it was only a matter of time until the Ausies went the same way as the Republicans and Democrats here in America. Oh well, even if passed these meaningless reforms will not stop the war. Though it does make one ponder just whose side they are on.

EDIT: though in my opinion points 6 and 7 in the article are actually pretty good ideas. Point 8 is pretty dubious, but hey don't complain at least they are proposing to only store your data for 2 years. In America the Republicans and Democrats have decided to archive your electronic use indefinantly (or for however long modern technology persists.)
 
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tatu

Junior Member
Apr 19, 2011
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I don't get why Australia of all countries has to get all flamed up about Islamic terrorists, when the terrorists' focus is more on Israel and America (the little Satan and the big Satan, as they have been called). Creating all this unnecessary pandemonium about terrorist attacks and security is only resulting in drawing the attention of the terrorists to Australia. India has seen quite a few terrorist attacks and I've personally witnessed religious attacks and brutal riots. Yet, I haven't seen a government or a Minister freak out as such. I do like Australia as a country. It's beautiful; and does consist of beautiful people. =) However, I do think that this whole "security" hoo-ha is quite over-the-top.

(Just an opinion from an outsider who has quite a few Australian friends.)
Well we had a navy man attacked this morning who was in uniform, we had 2 policemen stabbed and threatened with beheading, we had 15 arrested in Sydney with plans to have a beheading of an innocent victim in the middle of our city. We are being targeted and we currently have 60 Australian citizens in Syria and Iraq on the side of ISIS.
 
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gene77

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#9
Well we had a navy man attacked this morning who was in uniform, we had 2 policemen stabbed and threatened with beheading, we had 15 arrested in Sydney with plans to have a beheading of an innocent victim in the middle of our city. We are being targeted and we currently have 60 Australian citizens in Syria and Iraq on the side of ISIS.
Even though every life is important, those numbers that you have mentioned seem rather minuscule, compared to thousands of people dying in other countries due to terrorist activity. I think Australia has a bigger homicide count when it comes to internal matters, rather than due to terrorists. Also, I'm pretty sure that Islamic terrorists in particular, generally like to go all out, and kill hundreds of "pigs" on their way to martyrdom. So, considering that Australia has not had a catastrophic mass murder like that happen, I didn't think they would think they were under major threat. I do feel that all the extra hype is making Australia into a target, though.

True, there are terrorists in every country. But, I haven't seen other Prime Ministers get so paranoid. By your response, I presume that you do support Tony Abbott's security rules? I'm not prejudiced here! Just apprehending. You could probably check out global terrorist data sites and country reports on terrorism which provide details on which countries have had the most terrorist attacks. India happens to be number 4 on numerous lists. Australia doesn't even feature.
 
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Roamer

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#10
Well we had a navy man attacked this morning who was in uniform, we had 2 policemen stabbed and threatened with beheading, we had 15 arrested in Sydney with plans to have a beheading of an innocent victim in the middle of our city. We are being targeted and we currently have 60 Australian citizens in Syria and Iraq on the side of ISIS.
800 police officers, 15 people arrested after which most were released, 1 person charged vaguely with 'preparing to commit terrorism'. ONE charged. And by the way, they had the power to do all of this under current legislation, without the help of the new barrage of anti-freedom laws that George Brandis is madly rushing through Parliament. So imagine just how much of our liberty is being chopped and charred. But I digress.

I understand your sentiments, tatu. No one is saying that the Islamic State threat shouldn't be dealt with. The problem is the hyper-fantastical and grossly disproportionate way in which our government is dealing with it. As if terrorism is the greatest threat to our existence.

But is it, really? In comparison to the things that really threaten Aussie lives?

I don't think so. Since the Hilton Hotel bombing in Sydney in 1978, a total of 113 Australians have died from acts of terrorism. That includes in Australia and overseas. But in the last decade alone, 850 Australians - the vast majority women and children - were killed brutally by domestic violence (ABS). Hundreds of thousands more injured and suffering abuse right now.

Our government's response? Increase "anti-terrorism" spending by $670 million, on top of the yearly billions we spend on the AFP, ASIO, and the defence budget, and spit the word "terrorism" every chance they get to ensure a 24-hour news cycle obsessed with terrorism. Meanwhile, the issue of domestic violence gets close to zero top-level mention, and is thrown a relative bone of a policy: $25 million per year, courtesy of the Abbott government. And let's not forget, due to the "budget crisis" (which miraculously doesn't exist when it comes to the "war on terror") and the refusal of the Federal Government to step in, many women refuges and homeless youth shelters were shut down this year. I want to believe that our leaders have their priorities straight. But I can't.

I also want to believe that they know what they're doing when they beat their chests and declare war against the Islamic State. But once again, I cannot. We have yet to hear even remotely intelligent discussions over why the terrorist threat exists in the first place. It's a complex, but maybe - just maybe - it involves the fact that since Australia joined the ill-conceived wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians, many of them Muslim, have been killed as a direct result of Western military intervention. Maybe it's the way in which we've stayed silent while the US not-so-secretly backs murderous dictatorships in the Middle East. Maybe it's because we're arming and equipping other terrorist groups (cue PKK) to fight against IS. Maybe it's because our political leaders' appetite for war means we're bizarrely funnelling truckloads of money into rich Sunni Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia to feed our fuel-hungry military troops, all of which ends up in the hands of the elites who then fund Sunni extremist groups like IS. It's a blighted and vicious cycle of war begetting war, hate begetting hate, and willed ignorance screwing everyone over.

Our political leaders are not having the kind of level-headed discussions needed to deal with the root caused of terrorism, nor to deal with it according to it's actual level of relative risk. No, it's charge, charge, charge, all the way with the USA. Instead, our beloved government is insists that they're fighting to protect our freedoms by taking our freedoms away. By their count, 2 + 2 now officially equals 5.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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I thought the conservatives in Oz were liberals.

And it is notable how you have bean disarmed.
Methinks our current pretzel would like to put the Oz law on us here.
But to my amazement, our Supreme Court actually upheld our 2nd Amendment, which forbids infringement of the (inherent) right to own & bear arms.

Let he how has no sword, sell his coat & buy one.
Now in modern English would sword read AK?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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When the conservatives are in power the scream is "restriction of freedom in the name of security"
When the liberals are in power the scream is "restriction of freedom in the name of security".

At least there is a consensus...terrorism is a threat, and dealing with it causes discontent.
 
Mar 21, 2011
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#13
I think Australia has a bigger homicide count when it comes to internal matters
In the last 10 years we've had more death (double) from falls from ladders.

I personally think we need an eternal war on Ladders. Ladders are from Satan!
 
Mar 21, 2011
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Reading this article makes one wonder if the Australian government is more interested in stopping Islam or in cracking down on their own people.
In truth, most of the surveillance will be used to catch citizens pirating movies by Bittorrent.

Large American companies have instructed our government to do this.

They clicked their boots together, and asked the companies how high would you like to jump?

It honestly feels like Democracy has been suspended here since the last election.

Here is a list of direct promises broken. (Aka they lied to get in power).
Promise Tracker - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
 
R

Roamer

Guest
#15
I thought the conservatives in Oz were liberals.

And it is notable how you have bean disarmed.
Methinks our current pretzel would like to put the Oz law on us here.
But to my amazement, our Supreme Court actually upheld our 2nd Amendment, which forbids infringement of the (inherent) right to own & bear arms.

Let he how has no sword, sell his coat & buy one.
Now in modern English would sword read AK?
Atwood: So did everyone else in Australia before the current government came to power. Since then, they've been sending incredibly mixed signals and no one knows what they are now. Huge government spending in areas we don't really need, huge cuts on the things we do need. Our 'liberals' are now part-time socialists when it suits big business and the defence budget.

Also I'm curious about the 2nd amendment. Not an expert on it, but my understanding is it was originally intended as a final resort for citizens to overthrow the government with arms should it ever become a tyrannical state. Not as a naked call for every man, woman and child to have the right to carry a firearm into a McDonalds. I for one am pretty happy for Australia to stay as it is - strict gun ownership and ammo laws, and a comparatively low firearm homicide rate. Not to mention a strong culture which generally balks at the idea of our society being indiscriminately awash with automatic assault rifles.
 
Mar 21, 2011
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Mar 21, 2011
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Atwood: So did everyone else in Australia before the current government came to power.

Nah mate. I'm a little older and still remember the Howard years.

I was never under that illusion.
 
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Roamer

Guest
#18
Yeah, I should have rephrased: Everyone who voted for Abbott who thought he was going to be Howard 2.0. Instead, he's kind of like a rabid Howard 2.0 on steroids, minus the political sense. Got a bit of nostalgic heartache when I watched Bob Hawke and John Howard agree at the National Press Club on the dire state of political debate in Australia at the moment.
 
Mar 21, 2011
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#19
Bye Bye Freedom, courtesy of Conservative politicians.

Another day, another stab in the back from conservatives globally.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#20
Bye Bye Freedom, courtesy of Conservative politicians.

Another day, another stab in the back from conservatives globally.
The things we have to do to keep you communists at bay.