inquiring

[Jullianna]

1. Is it appropriate for a Christian to feel that their sins are somehow less evil than the sins of another? (John 8:7)

2. What would the accountability be for a Christian to hold someone's past mistakes against them? (Romans 8:1)

EXAMPLES:

Would it be okay to slam Saul/Paul for murdering Christians prior to his conversion and say that he could not be part of the body of Christ?

Would it be okay to say that David could not be part of the body of Christ because of his situation with Bathsheba?

3. Is not to do such things assisting the Accuser of the brethren in his works?

Revelation 12:7-12 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

See also Job 1

What do you think about these things?

 

[Lynx]

One thing about David, a point I plan to use in a future sermon - He was still known as a man after God's own heart.

Holding one sin as being worse than another is a strictly human quality. To God sin is sin, whether you robbed a bank or stole a candy bar from a convenience store.

On that topic, remember when Peter denied he knew Jesus three times? Remember when he ran out to the garden and wept bitterly? Remember who else was in the garden that night? Which failure was worse, Judas' or Peter's?

The only difference between Peter and Judas was Peter cried for a while, then he got back up. A bit later you see Peter preaching the first pentecostal message in Acts chapter 2. He was the one with the keys to the kingdom, he was the one who had to go "unlock" the door for the Samaritans and Gentiles, he was even so close to God that if his very shadow passed over a sick person the person was healed.

Judas though, he thought his sin was much worse. He deemed the transgression so heinous that he gave up on ever returning to God. That's the reason people commit suicide, because they give up.

I can't help wondering what Judas would have been if he had cried for a while and then gotten back up.

 

[seoulsearch]

I was actually talking about this in chat a few nights ago.

Several years ago when I was writing prison inmates, the ones who had committed sexual crimes really stood out in my mind, and most especially, a 22-year-old who was in for molesting two young girls. He had only received something like 3 years for his offenses and he wrote, "When I get out, I KNOW I'll offend again... unless I get help." (Research shows there is virtually no help out there.)

While his declaration chilled me to the bone, I also felt the voice of the Holy Spirit convicting me and saying that I had to remember that in God's sight, MY sins are JUST AS unacceptable before God as those of someone who preys on young children, or those who murder, etc.

THAT was a huge wake-up call, not to mention a terrible jolt to my pride, seeing as I've always been known as "a good girl" (with her own circle of sins she wasn't talking about.)

I always try to remember that my sins, in God's eyes, warrant just as much judgment as those whom we think of as "the worst."

Because of this, I absolutely can't stand it when Christians pigeon-hole some sins (homosexuality is always huge) as being so much worse than their own and show no mercy to those who struggle with those sins.

They forget that their sins, in the sight of God, are just as guilty and warrant just as much judgment as those of the homosexual, the murderer, and the pedophile.

 

[Lynx]

That prisoner is a cut above most though. He acknowledged what he was doing was wrong, basically said he could not stop doing without help, and seemed to want help to stop it. Otherwise he would not have said what he did, or phrased it the way he did. Most sinners don't want to admit what they are doing is wrong, much less seek a way to stop doing it.

May he find the help he needs.

 

[Jullianna]

That prisoner is a cut above most though. He acknowledged what he was doing was wrong, basically said he could not stop doing without help, and seemed to want help to stop it. Otherwise he would not have said what he did, or phrased it the way he did. Most sinners don't want to admit what they are doing is wrong, much less seek a way to stop doing it.

May he find the help he needs.

Do you think that there are sins that each of us commit everyday that fall into this category?

P.S. - I agree that knowing he needs help is the first step toward his healing. Kim, thank you for being there for this man.

 

[Lynx]

Depends on the person. But remember Romans chapter 6. "We all sin a little every day" is a myth, according to the Bible. We have freedom from sin. We can still choose to sin, but by the power of God we can also choose not to.

 

[Jullianna]

Depends on the person. But remember Romans chapter 6. "We all sin a little every day" is a myth, according to the Bible. We have freedom from sin. We can still choose to sin, but by the power of God we can also choose not to.

I agree that we can choose to sin the sins we are aware of, but what about the sin in our lives that God has not yet shown a light on? Bad feelings toward someone that we haven't dealt with. Selfishness. Failing to do the good we know to do (James 4:17).

There are a lot of young Christians who are not as familiar with the scriptures as others and the Holy Spirit has not yet enlightened them regarding things they need to put off. Even those among us who are older in faith are still being shown things in our lives that we need to surrender to Him. These are the things I'm speaking of in my initial post. That somehow...just because we are farther along in the process...somehow our remaining or even unknown sins are not as bad as the obvious sins of others.

It's difficult to put into words. I hope that makes sense. I tend to overthink things, so it may not.

 

[ChandlerFan]

1. Is it appropriate for a Christian to feel that their sins are somehow less evil than the sins of another? (John 8:7)

I think on one level we do have to admit that while all sin is harmful, there are certain sins that cause greater hurt, have greater consequences, are more destructive, etc. If somebody insults another person, it's likely that the ripple effect won't be as great as if they had killed them. But in another sense, no matter how major or minor our worst sin, we are still all sinners before God in need of a Savior. So I think it really depends on where the heart of the person is. I don't know if "appropriate" or "inappropriate" are the words I would use, but if a Christian is thinking of themselves as less evil out of a state of pride and ignorance of their need for Jesus, that's not good.

2. What would the accountability be for a Christian to hold someone's past mistakes against them? (Romans 8:1)

EXAMPLES:

Would it be okay to slam Saul/Paul for murdering Christians prior to his conversion and say that he could not be part of the body of Christ?

Would it be okay to say that David could not be part of the body of Christ because of his situation with Bathsheba?

No, not at all, and it would actually be in opposition to the Gospel to say that. And that would generally be my thought as far as the last question goes too. I'm starting to get the feeling at this point that you might be asking these questions to prove a point to someone, although I could be totally wrong.

 

[Jullianna]

I think on one level we do have to admit that while all sin is harmful, there are certain sins that cause greater hurt, have greater consequences, are more destructive, etc. If somebody insults another person, it's likely that the ripple effect won't be as great as if they had killed them. But in another sense, no matter how major or minor our worst sin, we are still all sinners before God in need of a Savior. So I think it really depends on where the heart of the person is. I don't know if "appropriate" or "inappropriate" are the words I would use, but if a Christian is thinking of themselves as less evil out of a state of pride and ignorance of their need for Jesus, that's not good.



No, not at all, and it would actually be in opposition to the Gospel to say that. And that would generally be my thought as far as the last question goes too. I'm starting to get the feeling at this point that you might be asking these questions to prove a point to someone, although I could be totally wrong.

I agree with you. As far as I can see a Christian should give a great deal of thought to these things. That's what I have been doing a lot of recently. Wondering how clearly we truly see ourselves, you know?

Self-righteousness is a dangerous thing, isn't it? And yet I wonder how often we compare our choices to the lives of others. Thinking..yeah..I did this thing or that thing, but what they did was far worse. But, as someone in another thread said tonight, it's not about how we see ourselves, it's about how He sees us that matters. And sin is sin is sin.

Just something that was on my mind on the drive home tonight. The mind begins to wander at the wheel.

The thing is, just after I typed the OP I was hanging up my clean clothes from the laundry room and was having judgmental thoughts regarding someone. God brought my own words back to me. He has a way of doing that, doesn't He? I'm hoping that I'm going to learn a great deal from this and that it will bring about a great deal of growth and change. It's tough sometimes, but we all need it, don't we?

Self-discipline or self-righteousness. We have a choice to make, don't we?

 

[Rachel20]

1. Is it appropriate for a Christian to feel that their sins are somehow less evil than the sins of another? (John 8:7)

Romans 12:3 - Do not think too highly of yourself more highly than you should

So no. We can learn from the mistakes of others, but that doesn't mean we need to feel pride in not committing the same.

2. What would the accountability be for a Christian to hold someone's past mistakes against them? (Romans 8:1)

EXAMPLES:

Would it be okay to slam Saul/Paul for murdering Christians prior to his conversion and say that he could not be part of the body of Christ?

Would it be okay to say that David could not be part of the body of Christ because of his situation with Bathsheba?


It's definitely not okay for anyone to slam someone else for their past mistakes unless they repented of it.

Paul was a much younger Christian and he stood up to Peter when he realized his hypocrisy.

I believe we are to stand up for the truth and speak out against what is wrong. However if someone turns from their mistakes and lets go of it, so should we.

If we don't forgive others, our Father in heaven won't forgive us.

If we have bitterness against others for their past mistakes we need to bring it before God and ask Him to deal with the circumstance.

To hold onto the past, only keeps us from moving on to the future.

3. Is not to do such things assisting the Accuser of the brethren in his works?


Not when it means covering up things in the dark and letting sin go unnoticed.

What if that sin would mean hurting others? Like Peter's hypocrisy in alienating and rejecting the Gentiles.

We are to be bold and courageous and to own up to the truth.

Even if we ourselves are in the wrong, we should accept correction, learn from it and move on. None of us is perfect and iron sharpens iron.

 

[Rachel20]

I also remembered this parable while typing out for the humility thread.


I think it fits here


Luke 18:9 -14


The Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous,and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[Jullianna]

I also remembered this parable while typing out for the humility thread.


I think it fits here


Luke 18:9 -14


The Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous,and treated others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

It fits here perfectly! Thank you

 

[Jullianna]

1. Is it appropriate for a Christian to feel that their sins are somehow less evil than the sins of another? (John 8:7)

Romans 12:3 - Do not think too highly of yourself more highly than you should

So no. We can learn from the mistakes of others, but that doesn't mean we need to feel pride in not committing the same.

2. What would the accountability be for a Christian to hold someone's past mistakes against them? (Romans 8:1)

EXAMPLES:

Would it be okay to slam Saul/Paul for murdering Christians prior to his conversion and say that he could not be part of the body of Christ?

Would it be okay to say that David could not be part of the body of Christ because of his situation with Bathsheba?


It's definitely not okay for anyone to slam someone else for their past mistakes unless they repented of it.

Paul was a much younger Christian and he stood up to Peter when he realized his hypocrisy.

I believe we are to stand up for the truth and speak out against what is wrong. However if someone turns from their mistakes and lets go of it, so should we.

If we don't forgive others, our Father in heaven won't forgive us.

If we have bitterness against others for their past mistakes we need to bring it before God and ask Him to deal with the circumstance.

To hold onto the past, only keeps us from moving on to the future.

3. Is not to do such things assisting the Accuser of the brethren in his works?


Not when it means covering up things in the dark and letting sin go unnoticed.

What if that sin would mean hurting others? Like Peter's hypocrisy in alienating and rejecting the Gentiles.

We are to be bold and courageous and to own up to the truth.

Even if we ourselves are in the wrong, we should accept correction, learn from it and move on. None of us is perfect and iron sharpens iron.

Good post. Thank you.

I absolutely agree that we should stand for truth and against sin. Seems like the problem is that we sometimes forget where the line is between judging/speaking out against sin and judging/speaking out against individuals. It often presents itself in the form of a personal attack rather than an act of righteous indignation/compassion and godly love aimed at bringing about repentance.

We can know whether or not we have taken our own sins to the Lord, but most of the time we are not close enough to another individual to know their spiritual battles. God deals with each of us in His way and in His time. We all wrestle with one thing or another. Some things are obvious, others not so much. Some things are akin to the faith battle of this man:

Mark 9
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?”
“From childhood,” he answered. [SUP]22 [/SUP]“It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”
[SUP]23 [/SUP]“‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.”
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”



Some sins (example: addictions, unbelief) can be confessed, but are overcome over time rather than instantaneously. There is healing that God brings about in order for it to occur. I have seen deliverance happen instantaneously, so I know it can; but for more people such things appear to occur over time.

Luke 7

[SUP]43 [/SUP]Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.


There is an old saying "Those who have made the most mistakes are the most qualified to give advice." I don't know whether that is true, but I do know that failing terribly, then experiencing the mercy and forgiveness of Christ/a great healing work teaches us compassion, mercy and humility. I think of Paul...how he spoke of being the greatest of sinners. His heart had been broken because of his past sins. Perhaps this is what drove him to share Christ as passionately and boldly as he did.

Perhaps this is what I am learning. To keep my mouth shut more and my heart open more with regard to others. I might just learn a thing or two in the process....and have fewer of my fingers pointing back at myself.

 

[Rachel20]

1 Corinthians 16:14


Let all that you do be done in love