Being in love/being happy= freedom to do whatever you want?

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MissCris

Guest
#1
I saw some pretty poor advice on Facebook this morning (imagine that...) from one friend to another, and wanted to hear y'all's opinions about it...

So, basically what happened was that a divorced person is now in a new relationship, and some photos said person posted of the new person in their life started some drama. Other people commented about this, and one person said,

"Hey, be in love. Be happy. Forget the rest."

And it just made me kind of cringe...because it basically is saying that when we're in love, when we're happy, we have a free license to do what we please- hurt others, in this case, or in other similar situations it's often meant that we can just ignore common courtesy for those around us or act however we want because hey, we should just be in love and be happy. Right?

On one hand, I understand the sentiment behind it- don't let other people's issues drag you down. That's all well and good, but then...on the other hand, the attitude of it seems more like...Who cares what anyone else thinks or feels? If you're happy, then that's the only thing that matters.

And I just feel like that's such a wrong attitude.

I don't know. What do you guys think? Should people who are in love be free to say/do whatever they please without regard to those around them? Is their happiness what matters most, and everyone else can go jump in a lake?


 
U

Ugly

Guest
#2
That seems to be the sentiment on here. Why not in the world as well?
 

ChandlerFan

Senior Member
Jan 8, 2013
1,148
102
63
#3
That seems to be the sentiment on here. Why not in the world as well?
There's a difference between being completely hands-off and allowing someone to be happy regardless of the consequences of their actions and showing them love in the words you speak to them despite the fact that they're being an idiot. Harsh words alone are not going to pull someone out of their idiocy the majority of the time. Words spoken with tact and in love have a far better chance of doing that. And if you really do want to love them, your goal should be to actually see them flourish.

MissCris, the answer to your question is no, people should not be free to say or do whatever they please without regards to those around them, regardless of their circumstances. That's pure selfishness. That is what our culture preaches to us, though. In a culture where individualism and self-actualization is king, we're encouraged to be our own selves, whatever that means, and to be who we are regardless of what other people think. The happiness of the individual matters more than the flourishing of the whole community.

It really is pretty ridiculous when you think about it. It makes no sense at all from a practical standpoint. But yeah, what your friend is doing is selfish and wrong, and the advice she got from another friend is really, really poor. If she followed her advice to its natural implications and conclusions, she would realize how terrible it is too, and how poor of a friend she's really being in that circumstance despite her intentions.
 
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Nicee

Guest
#4
No body in this world wants to show unconditional/agape love. Agape love doesnt pertains to romantic love. Everyone r in a relationship to recieve love n not to give unconditional love. Those who give unconditional love to people or their partner they get hurt. Love isnt one sided. Tht why Christ said "The love of many will grow cold." Knowing tht fact cause him pain.

That why God himself said he regret creating us. Im glad Noah was there to comfort him. All u need in this world is few people to love u unconditionally or ull be like the rest. God find tht person in Noah n his family.
 
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Wormwood

Guest
#5
It's a prevailing notion nowadays and not really a sensible one, as ChandlerFan pointed out. The whole "do what makes you happy" thing seems to sort of collapse in on itself when you explore the implications of it.

Do you care for others, or take care of your inner child?
Pursue success or seek simplicity?
"Just Say No" or "Just Do It"?

​Author Jack Higgens was asked what he would have liked to have known when he was younger. His answer: "That when you get to the top, there's nothing there." Maybe that's totally irrelevant, but I can't help in thinking that he's asserting that he pursued happiness ─ or at least what he concluded would make him happy ─ and it failed to deliver (which would totally make it SO relevant :p).
 
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MissCris

Guest
#6
I've been the person being "in love" and "happy" and also acting like a real jerk to anyone who dared to try to put a damper on it...

I like what's been said about how it usually ends for people seeking only their own "happiness"...it absolutely does collapse in on itself, and often leaves a person worse off than they were before they were so "happy" and "in love".

Having survived my own "happiness", I guess it's easy for me to see how flawed that logic is now, but maybe I'm being too hard on those who haven't learned that lesson yet. Although, it's really frustrating to watch some people live their entire lives by this idea that being in love and being happy is the end all, be all...only to repeatedly get hurt and still somehow never figure it out.
And sadly, these people often end up alienating those who truly do love them, because they've got their heads stuck up...in the clouds...and are too busy being "happy" and treating everyone else like dirt.
 

ChandlerFan

Senior Member
Jan 8, 2013
1,148
102
63
#7
I think a lot changes and a relationship is more glorifying to God when people view marriage as primarily a means to their holiness rather than a means to their happiness.
 
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Shouryu

Guest
#8
That seems to be the sentiment on here.
It does?

Hm. I wouldn't have come to that conclusion... But we all have our own perspective. *shrug*
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
8,103
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#9
As one who has never so much as been on a date before, I am going to stuff my paws in my mouth and walk away.

But before I do, I would like to make the observation that there is as yet no evidence that the person in question in the OP did anything wrong. Some pics were posted that caused some drama... that's all we really know about the specific situation at hand. The quote in question, "Hey, be in love. Be happy. Forget the rest." might be applicable to the situation, and might be taken the wrong way only when taken out of context. Or not. We don't know.
 
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MissCris

Guest
#10
As one who has never so much as been on a date before, I am going to stuff my paws in my mouth and walk away.

But before I do, I would like to make the observation that there is as yet no evidence that the person in question in the OP did anything wrong. Some pics were posted that caused some drama... that's all we really know about the specific situation at hand. The quote in question, "Hey, be in love. Be happy. Forget the rest." might be applicable to the situation, and might be taken the wrong way only when taken out of context. Or not. We don't know.
True...I could've explained a little more. I won't go into the whole thing, but just add a little context here:

The picture posted apparently caused at least one person to feel very hurt, and when this was voiced, that's when the "drama" began- people choosing sides, and some insults, and then that bit of advice to ignore it and just be happy.

That's where I saw the problem- somebody voiced their pain, and most people involved stated opinions about how it doesn't matter what that person feels because the other person is in love and happy.

I just don't think that's okay...to basically say "Screw you and your feelings, I'm happy and nothing else matters".

At any rate, even in a more generalized context, I think often when that sort of "advice" is given, it's mostly given with the attitude of "who cares who gets hurt so long as you're happy".

I dunno...maybe I've explained the whole thing poorly, or failed to communicate the point. I'm kind of prone to both.
 
Aug 2, 2009
24,574
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#11
I saw some pretty poor advice on Facebook this morning (imagine that...) from one friend to another, and wanted to hear y'all's opinions about it...

So, basically what happened was that a divorced person is now in a new relationship, and some photos said person posted of the new person in their life started some drama. Other people commented about this, and one person said,

"Hey, be in love. Be happy. Forget the rest."

And it just made me kind of cringe...because it basically is saying that when we're in love, when we're happy, we have a free license to do what we please- hurt others, in this case, or in other similar situations it's often meant that we can just ignore common courtesy for those around us or act however we want because hey, we should just be in love and be happy. Right?

On one hand, I understand the sentiment behind it- don't let other people's issues drag you down. That's all well and good, but then...on the other hand, the attitude of it seems more like...Who cares what anyone else thinks or feels? If you're happy, then that's the only thing that matters.

And I just feel like that's such a wrong attitude.

I don't know. What do you guys think? Should people who are in love be free to say/do whatever they please without regard to those around them? Is their happiness what matters most, and everyone else can go jump in a lake?


I understand what you're questioning MissCris, but from what I've seen, those who've been going through a divorce have just been through a living hell and they will truly need all the happiness they can get. So I say that happiness should be their priority over offending others at least for the time being because it's part of their healing process.
 
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MissCris

Guest
#12
I understand what you're questioning MissCris, but from what I've seen, those who've been going through a divorce have just been through a living hell and they will truly need all the happiness they can get. So I say that happiness should be their priority over offending others at least for the time being because it's part of their healing process.
I guess that's part of what I'm trying to say with all this-

Yes, divorce is awful. I've been divorced, and I've been on the verge of divorce, and it's most certainly horrible and miserable and awful and painful. But even so, how/why does that give a person the right to trample over the feelings of anyone else? To just do whatever they feel like, because they "deserve" to be happy?

I guess I'm looking at it like...just because we get hurt in life doesn't give us the right to hurt others.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely do understand how it feels to be so wrapped up in a new relationship and feel so happy that you almost can't think of anything else, and you certainly don't want to be thinking of anything else...it's just...I can't find any kind of justification for making others feel bad while you're so happy. And I really think I'm not making sense. But that's all I've got. Um, you know, for now. Until the next post. Yeah.

By the way, I do appreciate all the different points of view on it. Thanks, y'all :)
 
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Wormwood

Guest
#13
To just do whatever they feel like, because they "deserve" to be happy?
Ugh! Wormwood disdains that word. :(

I guess I'm looking at it like...just because we get hurt in life doesn't give us the right to hurt others.
No, it most certainly doesn't! It's a sad truism that hurt people hurt people.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
8,103
113
#14
I understand what you're questioning MissCris, but from what I've seen, those who've been going through a divorce have just been through a living hell and they will truly need all the happiness they can get. So I say that happiness should be their priority over offending others at least for the time being because it's part of their healing process.
But who's job is it to explain to the hurting person "Their happiness should take precedence over your pain because they are trying to heal"?

*Lynx looks down at his paws, stuffs them in his mouth again and walks off.
 
Aug 2, 2009
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#15
I guess that's part of what I'm trying to say with all this-

Yes, divorce is awful. I've been divorced, and I've been on the verge of divorce, and it's most certainly horrible and miserable and awful and painful. But even so, how/why does that give a person the right to trample over the feelings of anyone else? To just do whatever they feel like, because they "deserve" to be happy?

I guess I'm looking at it like...just because we get hurt in life doesn't give us the right to hurt others.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely do understand how it feels to be so wrapped up in a new relationship and feel so happy that you almost can't think of anything else, and you certainly don't want to be thinking of anything else...it's just...I can't find any kind of justification for making others feel bad while you're so happy. And I really think I'm not making sense. But that's all I've got. Um, you know, for now. Until the next post. Yeah.

By the way, I do appreciate all the different points of view on it. Thanks, y'all :)
Well I think maybe I'm having trouble with understanding how posting pics of someone they love is offensive. Others should understand that this person is going to post pics of the one they love right?
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
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#16
Hi Cristen,

Please forgive me in that I don't understand exactly what happened, but here's what I was thinking of in order to try to relate. As you know, I am divorced as well so I can relate to that aspect of your post (especially since my ex left for a new love he was very happy with), but I wanted to give a different perspective.

Several years ago, I went through a heart-breaking, soul-crushing divorce, and have been alone for many years since. In that time, a good friend of mine found a wonderful man who stuck by her in very tough times, accepted her children as his own, and supported her through every venture. They fell madly in love and he treated her like royalty. Many times our office was showered with flowers, gifts, and rings--not because either one was materialistic, but because that's part of how they expressed their love (along with going to church together.) They have been very, very happily married for quite a few years now. As you can imagine... I felt so hurt, forgotten, and overlooked by God.

Several years later, however, my friend and I both had parents who encountered completely separate but very sudden life-and-death situations. People will call it God's sovereignty... I call it... I don't know why things happen the way they do, and to this day, I still feel shocked and saddened by the outcome. In this particula situation, my friend's parent died while my parent survived. I'm sure she felt many of the same things I was feeling over her and her husband.

It has been some time, but I know my friend is still very deeply grieving. Would I, for instance, plaster her Facebook page with updates from my life that included an overload of happy family images of me wrapped in the arms of my surviving parent? We also worked in the same office for many years--would I then purposely and knowingly bring in and hang tons of pictures with me and my smiling, happily loving parent fawning all over me?

NO, NO, and, HEAVENS, NO. I would probably choose to bring in pictures of landscapes and objects instead, knowing very well that my friend was still very much in the process of healing. If people tried to tell me, "Just enjoy the time you have with your parents while you have it, Kim! See, this is proof of how short life is!! Do what you want, hang whatever pictures you want, be happy!!!", I would look at them as if they were crazy. Not to mention insanely insensitive.

I realize we can't walk on eggshells around everyone and we can't be responsible for other people's emotions. BUT, I do believe if we are aware of a close friend's plight, no matter how good our lives are going at the time, we as Christians still have a responsibility to "bear one another's burdens", lift them up in prayer, and be sensitive to what they are going through if we have a specific opportunity.

I hope I'm not misconstruing anything--feel free to clarify anything I might be misunderstanding--but this is the best example I could think of.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
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#17
One other thought: the Bible says we reap what we sow.

Again, I understand that we can't walk around on tiptoes trying to prevent hurting anyone's feelings because that's impossible. But if someone has the attitude of, "I've been through so much, I deserve to be happy so I'm going to do what I want (even though my conscience is slightly stinging because I'm aware that I'm disregarding someone else's feelings)", it just may come back to them.

I'm always amazed at how much people who are totally callous to other people's feeling always act COMPLETELY SHOCKED when others act the same way towards them. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people who show little to no compassion for others somehow think it should be heaped upon them in their own time of need. Now, it could be that other people really are being insensitive.

Or, it could be that all the time they spent brushing aside others' feelings has had time to grow... and their are in the middle of a full bloom of what they themselves planted.
 

Roh_Chris

Senior Member
Jun 15, 2014
4,728
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#18
I agree with what Seoulsearch has said. But I wish to add another point to this discussion - the cultural factor. The sentence "Be happy. Forget the rest" (quoted by MissCris in her OP), can be rendered sensitive or insensitive depending on the cultural context. Allow me to explain my point with a personal experience -

Yesterday, I was talking to a friend of mine. She is living with an abusive mom who is literally making her life miserable. Most of her mom's 'rules' are based on what my church teaches. And her mom adds a few more to it because she thinks she can do it and because she knows that the church would support her.

Picture this - she is 21 years old, about to graduate and she still has no say in what she can do with her life. Her mom would not let her leave the home city. She cannot even study in a college that is 15 miles away from her home because her mom wants to keep an eye on her. Her mom decides what clothes she wears, where she goes, what she eats, etc. etc. She was forced to be a Sunday school teacher because her mom decided that for her. Now everybody is giving her a lecture on how a Sunday school teacher must dress to church (I am talking of 'uniform dress code').

This girl has gone through a lot. She lost her dad a few months ago - a person she was deeply, deeply attached to. I had lost contact with her for more than year but yesterday she messaged me because she was close to giving up on everything. I could feel her pain because I am going through a similar situation myself. Guess what my answer to her was? I told her "I know what you are going through. You have to make up your mind whether you are going to let everybody walk all over you or you are going to pursue what matters to you. Don't let the church dictate what you do, to a micro-level. Love God and walk with Him. Pursue what is right and what makes you happy."

So, given the cultural context, I believe that the message I told her is perfectly okay. We cannot have a blanket rule to say that, that philosophy is completely wrong. In a patriarchal and oppressive society, people must be encouraged to pursue what they want - as long as it is right. I understand that this is not the case in the US, but I just wanted to point out that we cannot label it as a 'wrong philosophy' per se.
 
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MissCris

Guest
#19
Kim,

I think you actually understood my point perfectly, and I appreciate you sharing that story with us- it was a very good example of the type of thing I'm talking about.

Insensitivity- that's what I've been trying to get at. Being so wrapped up in ourselves and what we're feeling or going through that we don't take the time to consider how our words or actions may be affecting those around us. In the situation I used in my OP, it was someone being insensitive to the feelings of the ex and the ex's family- who, by all accounts, really could simply remove themselves from this person's facebook page if it's that bad, but that still doesn't excuse the act of flaunting a new relationship, knowing who all would see it.

And you're right, we CAN'T all go around walking on eggshells. That would be silly- we should be able to express our feelings, our happiness, all of that...but I think the outward expression should be tempered with care for those around us, and expressed in the appropriate time/place (ie, not in the face of someone we know may be hurt by it).


I didn't really intend for this thread to become about the single incident I mentioned, I was only using that as an example, but I still am grateful for the different opinions on it, either way :)
 
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MissCris

Guest
#20
I agree with what Seoulsearch has said. But I wish to add another point to this discussion - the cultural factor. The sentence "Be happy. Forget the rest" (quoted by MissCris in her OP), can be rendered sensitive or insensitive depending on the cultural context. Allow me to explain my point with a personal experience -

Yesterday, I was talking to a friend of mine. She is living with an abusive mom who is literally making her life miserable. Most of her mom's 'rules' are based on what my church teaches. And her mom adds a few more to it because she thinks she can do it and because she knows that the church would support her.

Picture this - she is 21 years old, about to graduate and she still has no say in what she can do with her life. Her mom would not let her leave the home city. She cannot even study in a college that is 15 miles away from her home because her mom wants to keep an eye on her. Her mom decides what clothes she wears, where she goes, what she eats, etc. etc. She was forced to be a Sunday school teacher because her mom decided that for her. Now everybody is giving her a lecture on how a Sunday school teacher must dress to church (I am talking of 'uniform dress code').

This girl has gone through a lot. She lost her dad a few months ago - a person she was deeply, deeply attached to. I had lost contact with her for more than year but yesterday she messaged me because she was close to giving up on everything. I could feel her pain because I am going through a similar situation myself. Guess what my answer to her was? I told her "I know what you are going through. You have to make up your mind whether you are going to let everybody walk all over you or you are going to pursue what matters to you. Don't let the church dictate what you do, to a micro-level. Love God and walk with Him. Pursue what is right and what makes you happy."

So, given the cultural context, I believe that the message I told her is perfectly okay. We cannot have a blanket rule to say that, that philosophy is completely wrong. In a patriarchal and oppressive society, people must be encouraged to pursue what they want - as long as it is right. I understand that this is not the case in the US, but I just wanted to point out that we cannot label it as a 'wrong philosophy' per se.
First I want to say, my prayers are with both you and the girl you mentioned- I can't even begin to imagine the things she's going through, living that way, and I think your advice to her was very good.

In a situation like that, "be happy" is absolutely not a bad thing to tell a person. I wouldn't say that it's necessarily a cultural difference, in that case- people everywhere go through some really bad, or really difficult, things, and I think it's not uncommon for their friends and family to try to encourage them to do what will make them happy.

The context of this thread, though- that might be more a cultural thing...the whole idea that an individual is the most important person and nobody else matters. I really don't know, having never been outside the U.S. or studied other cultures. Now I'm curious...is this mainly an American attitude? Looking out for Number One, doing whatever makes us happy regardless of anything/anyone else?