Are facts relative? AKA Relative Truth

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Are facts relative?

  • Facts and Opinions are completly two different things?

    Votes: 14 82.4%

  • All facts are relative.

    Votes: 1 5.9%

  • Some facts are relative.

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • Total voters
    17
violakat

violakat

Senior Member
#1
Apr 23, 2014
1,236
21
38
#1
In a discussion about opinions, the subject came up about facts not being true for everyone? What do you think.

From what I've been taught, facts are things that can be proven. They are either proven true or false. Opinions, however, are things that can not be proven, such as judgements, etc.

Other people believe that facts are relative, that what is true for one person is different for others.

When I talk about facts, it's like 2+2=4. This is a universal truth. It doesn't change for anyone. And yes, it can be proven. Another universal truth is that gravity is what keeps people on the Earth. This again is a universal truth, a fact.

Relative facts, on the other hand, are actually opinions that are masquerading as facts. Such as someone saying that yellow is the best color in the world. That is an opinion, not a fact. It can not be proven, as it's a judgement.

What's your opinion?
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#3
Aug 13, 2014
24,910
8,163
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#3
Relativity is great.

There once was a lady named Wright.
Whose speed was much faster than light.
She went out one day.
In a relative way.
And returned on the previous night.
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#4
Aug 13, 2014
24,910
8,163
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#4
By the way, that... Um, discussion... Y'all were having about relative truth seems to me more a matter of semantics. Y'all were both saying the same thing, in different words.
 
Fenner

Fenner

Senior Member
#5
Jan 26, 2013
7,507
111
0
#5
violakat said:
In a discussion about opinions, the subject came up about facts not being true for everyone? What do you think.

From what I've been taught, facts are things that can be proven. They are either proven true or false. Opinions, however, are things that can not be proven, such as judgements, etc.

Other people believe that facts are relative, that what is true for one person is different for others.

When I talk about facts, it's like 2+2=4. This is a universal truth. It doesn't change for anyone. And yes, it can be proven. Another universal truth is that gravity is what keeps people on the Earth. This again is a universal truth, a fact.

Relative facts, on the other hand, are actually opinions that are masquerading as facts. Such as someone saying that yellow is the best color in the world. That is an opinion, not a fact. It can not be proven, as it's a judgement.

What's your opinion?
Click to expand...

Agree with you.
 
seoulsearch

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
#6
May 23, 2009
14,943
4,585
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#6
I'm not sure what kind of category this would fit under, but I most definitely believe that in some cases, some things are true for some people but untrue for others.

For instance: "Penicillin is an effective antibiotic." I suppose one could argue that this is an opinion based on the word "effective, even though I'm sure there are plenty of validated medical studies to prove this.

But for me, it doesn't matter how much "proof" there is, because my reaction to the penicillin is just as bad or worse than the ailment I was taking it for.

There are countless other examples of course and I'm not sure if they all fit, but this is something that immediately came to mind.
 
S

Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#7
#7
I agree with Lynx:

Lynx said:
By the way, that... Um, discussion... Y'all were having about relative truth seems to me more a matter of semantics.
Click to expand...
violakat said:
Other people believe that facts are relative, that what is true for one person is different for others.
Click to expand...
What is truth, after all?

relative schrute.jpg
 
G

GodIsSalvation

Banned
#8
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#8
Truth is not subjective.

Also somewhat funny enough is that gravity is actually not a fact, but is still a theory/opinion.
 
G

GodIsSalvation

Banned
#9
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#9
Truth is not subjective. Pontius Pilate asked, "What is truth?" Sometimes I wonder if he knew or not that the truth was right in front of him.

EDIT: (sorry on double post, computer is acting up.)
 
M

MissCris

Guest
#11
#11
I think people get confused by facts that are paired with or surrounded by opinions.

I hate my dining table. I find it to be ugly and try to cover it up and pretend it's not this big hideous thing in my house. When I look at it, I think "Man, that's an ugly table, it would look much nicer sitting out in the dumpster."

Most of that sentence ^^^ is my own opinion, and while it's true for me, someone else might see the table and think, "That's a really neat table, that would look nice in my dining room."

The part that didn't change between the two sentences is the Fact- the table is still a table, ugly or not. But should I ever come across some poor sucker who thinks the table is fantastic, we could both argue our opinions til we're blue in the face, insisting that our opinions are fact, when in reality, each opinion would only be "true" to the one expressing it.

My personal feeling that the table is basically garbage isn't a "relative fact", nor is it even a "personal truth", but merely an opinion formulated over a long period of having to deal with the table taking up space in my house, and my own preferences on furniture. Even if others agree with my opinion, it doesn't make it fact. It IS a Fact that I think the table is ugly. It is Not a Fact, relative or otherwise, that the table IS ugly.

...I hope that made more sense than I think it did.


 
violakat

violakat

Senior Member
#12
Apr 23, 2014
1,236
21
38
#12
So here is my question for those who believe facts are subjective. Can any one thing be true for all people. And before you say yes or no, think hard about this question.

And Seoul, I did think about medicine when deciding to bring up this subject, as that is something that should be taken into consideration. Thanks for bringing it up.

Lynx, I purposely started a new thread, because I thought this subject was interesting, and didn't want to derail the other thread any more then it already had been. So there. :p
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#13
Aug 13, 2014
24,910
8,163
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#13
MissChris: Is it in fact a table? If someone else owned it and decided to sit on it, or even put a foam layer on it and sleep on it, would that make it a chair or bed? I know many who have machines that are ostensibly treadmills, but now they are $600 clothes racks. I have a folding stool that I use as a folding waist-high laptop stand.
 
M

MissCris

Guest
#14
#14
Lynx said:
MissChris: Is it in fact a table? If someone else owned it and decided to sit on it, or even put a foam layer on it and sleep on it, would that make it a chair or bed? I know many who have machines that are ostensibly treadmills, but now they are $600 clothes racks. I have a folding stool that I use as a folding waist-high laptop stand.
Click to expand...
Misuse of an item doesn't change what the item actually IS, it just means you're creative :p

If I take a mason jar and stick a tea light in it, is the jar a candle holder or a jar? Or if I throw a pie at someone, is the pie a weapon, or a pie?

The person getting hit in the face with the pie might be of the opinion that the pie is actually a weapon, but the Fact of the matter is...it's still a pie, even if someone is wearing it on their face.
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#15
Aug 13, 2014
24,910
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#15
How is it not a candle holder? A candle holder is by definition something for holding candles.

Also a napkin is something with which to wipe crumbs from your lips here, but in Britain it is a diaper. And a boot is something you wear here, but in Britain it is the trunk of a car. And a period here is a full-stop there... don't ask. So if we get into what an object is called, that will quickly give you a headache. Language is changing all the time.
 
M

MissCris

Guest
#16
#16
Lynx said:
How is it not a candle holder? A candle holder is by definition something for holding candles.

Also a napkin is something with which to wipe crumbs from your lips here, but in Britain it is a diaper. And a boot is something you wear here, but in Britain it is the trunk of a car. And a period here is a full-stop there... don't ask. So if we get into what an object is called, that will quickly give you a headache. Language is changing all the time.
Click to expand...
People can call things whatever they like; it doesn't change what they are.
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#17
Aug 13, 2014
24,910
8,163
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#17
Yes, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. But something manufactured is different. Do we call it what the manufacturer intended it to be used for, or do we call it what it is used for? If you make a chair and I use it as a table, why should I defer to your opinion of what it is? I'm the one using it. You can call it an aerobie, it's still a table.
 
M

MissCris

Guest
#18
#18
I feel like we're about to go in circles :p
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#19
Aug 13, 2014
24,910
8,163
113
#19
Like a dog chasing his tail. Which is another reason cats are better than...

Whoops, wrong thread.
 
Oncefallen

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
#20
Jan 15, 2011
6,031
3,261
113
#20
MissCris said:
Misuse of an item doesn't change what the item actually IS, it just means you're creative :p

If I take a mason jar and stick a tea light in it, is the jar a candle holder or a jar? Or if I throw a pie at someone, is the pie a weapon, or a pie?

The person getting hit in the face with the pie might be of the opinion that the pie is actually a weapon, but the Fact of the matter is...it's still a pie, even if someone is wearing it on their face.
Click to expand...
The legal system would disagree with you. If I use the item below for the task it was designed it is called a tool (or more properly, a screwdriver)

Screw_Driver_display.jpg

But if I stick that same item into your chest I will be arrested for assault with a deadly weapon, not assault with a deadly tool.
 
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