What Would You Do If Your Significant Other Was Being Sexuall Harassed?

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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#1
Hey Singles,

Just had a few thoughts on my mind today. I was thinking back to an old thread in which women said that one thing they looked for in a potential husband was a protector. One male poster asked why, because, as he said, we're not living in the days of hunting and gathering, and so, he reasoned, "What would women need to be protected from?" Today I was thinking of an answer to that question.

Normally I like to set the tone with a personal story--please note that the example here, however, is something made up and is based on a set of experiences I have heard or gone through myself. I won't give a specific example due to privacy issues, so you'll have to take it at face value.

Carrie is a 26-year-old employee at a company where the normal dress code is a polo shirt and khakis. Definitely nothing too short, high, low, or skimpy going on there, and Carrie always dresses as a modest Christian woman. She has been working there for 2 years. She minds her own business, cares about others, and is hard-working.

For several months, Jim, a co-worker in his 50's who has been with the company for 25 years and has more seniority than almost anyone else there takes an interest in Carrie, who works in another area of the company. She wears glasses and her hair in a conservative bun, and one day, Jim tells Carrie that conservative hairstyles like hers are "hot" and that she looks like a "professional secretary". He doesn't use "controversial" words like "sexy" or "naughty", but continuously tells her how "pretty" she is and calls her "Secretary", even though she has asked him to call her by her real name. Both Carrie and Jim are single.

Jim technically never does or says anything "inappropriate" but he's growing bolder in his comments, even asking Carrie to come work for him in his department. He's been known to say some "borderline" things to other women over the years but the company has never done anything to him because technically, he's not doing anything "wrong", and he is considered to be an important person there whom they would fight to keep.

Carrie has considered calling human resources, but what can she say? "A long-term employee keeps telling me how pretty he thinks I am and refuses to call me by my own name." He's not doing anything "inappropriate" to her and she doesn't have a way of proving it anyway.

How do you feel about something like this going on? To me, this is screaming with red flags all over the place and I would hope that I would be strong enough to encourage the person to stand up for themselves or get out altogether.

1. If you were Carrie's boyfriend, what would you do? Would you advise her to look for a new job and support her in that, even if it meant she would be out of work for a while, or would have to take a pay cut?

2. If you were Carrie's husband, and you'd just bought a new car, were paying for your child's medical condition, and were barely paying your rent/mortgage as it was, what would you want Carrie to do? How would you support her?

3. Ladies, the situation can easily be flipped around. I've heard stories of men who have women at work who "talk to them a little too much", or are "a little too friendly" in their words, gestures, and demeanors. If the man you were dating was facing this, what would you advise him to do?

4. Ladies, if you were married to him... and especially if he was the breadwinner in your family, would you encourage him to look for another job? Again, what if this meant he'd be out of work for some time (possibly even a year or more... we all know how hard it can be to find a job) or had to take a significant cut in pay, especially if he was the only one working?

I don't know what everyone else's experience has been, but unfortunately, to me, it seems all too common, and I've known some people who have gone through a lot worse--from a young woman whose boss threatened her for refusing his advances to a man who was being patted on the backside by a female co-worker.

This, to me, answers the question as to why so many women (and maybe men as well) are drawn towards someone they perceive as strong, independent, and yes, even protective.

We might not be living in prehistoric times, but unfortunately, we still often have to deal with uncivilized behaviors in our everyday lives.

I would love to hear your stories, comments, and personal strategies as to how you have, or would, deal with these types of situations. If you are the person who has been harassed, how did you handle it? Who supported you, and what did they do to back your decisions?

(For now, I've given up trying to give quick one-line summaries of my threads because I feel it's important to read the context before answering. Those who skip past the original post are still welcome to voice their thoughts, but I think the "flavor" of the thread is lost without even reading what inspired the thread to begin with.)
 

JonahLynx

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2014
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#2
I would suggest that she politely ask not to be called those things, and instead to just use her name. The message should be clear - so if "Jim" continues to behave this way, it cannot be misconstrued as friendly/playful. Then perhaps there would be more ground in human resources. Ordinarily I won't step into something like this because to some degree, I think the lady can defend herself. But if it becomes extreme verbally or physically, then I'll speak up. If it was my girlfriend/wife though, I would be quicker and more aggressive TBH.
 

kodiak

Senior Member
Mar 8, 2015
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#3
As a criminal justice major, I see a bunch of red flags also. I have stood up for my sisters before. I would probably go, talk to this guy first, then take it from there, see what would be needed.
 

rachelsedge

Senior Member
Oct 15, 2012
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#4
I'm going to answer the questions posed in a different perspective later, when I have a keyboard and not just my phone.

The thing is, if you (general you) are feeling sexually harassed, you MUST speak up with your objection. Sexual harassment really can vary from person to person (the grey area kind, at least) because I know people who would take those comments and have it be an ongoing joke with the man and not become uncomfortable. If Carrie goes to HR to complain, if it is brought to Jim's attention, he can just claim he didn't know it was making her uncomfortable. Maybe he's lying, but maybe he's not if she didn't say anything and he truly doesn't know how she's taking it. But if she had told him before to stop, and he doesn't, then HR has more ground for action.

Now, I'm not condoning Jim's actions, nor am I saying I agree with the way the system works. I'm not trying to victim blame. This is purely from a company/HR outlook, since it can be a grey area.

So ladies and gents, if you are feeling harassed, speak up. Is it hard? Yes. But you have limited options, and staying quiet will not make things go away, especially with someone as persistent as Jim. If the company does nothing, then it's not a place you want to work for anyway if that kind of stuff is pushed under the rug. Sadly, seniority often does make people believe they can do what they want, and often times the company will let them get away with it. It's a sad business world we live in, sometimes.

/endbuzzkill

(I suppose I preface my future post with this post because these things will affect how I answer later.)
 
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MissCris

Guest
#5
Unfortunately, my husband Has had this happen to him at his current job (which he is hoping/working to eventually become head of his department, so it was a super touchy- no pun intended- situation). He asked me to stay out of it, after I had offered (mostly jokingly...) to beat the girl up, or start leaving threats on her Facebook page. I was angry, here he was just trying to do his job, and this woman wouldn't leave him alone. What made it all just that much worse is that- ok, my husband works at a hospital, the same one where both of our kids were born. And this woman visited us after each kid, came into my hospital room and sat down and congratulated us and held the babies. Sooo, you can imagine how I felt when I found out she was flirting with and getting too touchy-feely with my husband.

Anyway, all I was able to do was trust that he was taking care of the situation. He did report her, and was told that nothing could be done without proof but to keep reporting it when it happened, because enough reports on an employee would get them written up, and enough write ups would get them fired. Or something along those lines; I wasn't paying enough attention when he explained it to me because I was too busy being angry over the whole thing. At any rate, it was best that I didn't confront the girl...I would have made everything worse.

She got herself fired within a couple of months. Problem solved, sort of- my husband doesn't have to deal with that anymore, but no policies were changed to make it easier to report/deal with sexual harassment there. My husband shouldn't have had to report this woman's behavior numerous times before anything happened to her- one report should have been enough to have the situation looked into.

Anyway! If the tables were turned, if I was the one being harassed, I think I'd ask the same of my husband- to please stay out of it and let me handle it. Not that I don't appreciate his support and desire to protect me, but there's a time and place for bursting in with guns blazing, and my place of work (er, if I had one) Isn't the place. If I couldn't deal with it on my own and my employer wasn't doing anything about it either, I'd just quit. No sense staying in a miserable position, no matter how tight money is (Note: I realize not everyone Can just up and quit their job over something like that, I'm only saying that I personally would).
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#6
Frankly, you've really presented nothing that is, in the least, inappropriate.

"She feels" and "I think" don't say much if nothing has really been conveyed to Jim.

And if she has only been there for two years, how does she have any first hand knowledge of what he "has been known to say" in years before she was even there?

A man cannot say a woman is pretty?.... Well, should say she is plain... He is complimenting her, so what are we trying to prove here?

I think you just might be going way overboard.
 
Mar 22, 2013
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Indiana
#7
I think id be having a stern talking to with Jim, you know me, jim, and my tire thumper and id make him an offer he can't refuse.
 

Jilly81

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2011
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#8
Willie-T, I would be offended if I was called "secretary" instead of my real name after asking the person not to do so. Actually, if I am called ANYTHING that I ask someone not to call me, I find it offensive. Jim is being totally unprofessional, and I don't think it should be considered a grey line; his superiors shouldn't hesitate to order him to cut it out.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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#9
Frankly, you've really presented nothing that is, in the least, inappropriate.

"She feels" and "I think" don't say much if nothing has really been conveyed to Jim.

And if she has only been there for two years, how does she have any first hand knowledge of what he "has been known to say" in years before she was even there?

A man cannot say a woman is pretty?.... Well, should say she is plain... He is complimenting her, so what are we trying to prove here?

I think you just might be going way overboard.

Let me add that Carrie herself has noticed Jim making comments to some of the other young women, such as, when they're standing near a set of shelves...

"That's a nice-looking rack."

The reason she knows this man is known for this kind of behavior is because she's talked to other employees, even managers, who have been there 5-10 years or more and have told her she needs to stand up for herself, because Jim is testing her to see what he can get away with.

No, Willie, I'm not going overboard and I'm sorry to see that you think such a situation is "just complimenting someone." That's the very reason why people get away with things like this.

When a man tells a woman her hairstyle is "hot", refuses to call her by her own name and is instead calling her by his own cutesy nicknames even when she's asked him not to, THEN asks her to come work for him...

I don't know about you, but I see a definite problem. Frankly, I'm a bit disturbed by anyone who says they don't see a problem. I'm a bit sad... and disappointed... that all these other details have to be added in to make you feel that Carrie has a right to feel terribly uncomfortable in this situation.

And that, quite plainly, it. is. wrong.

For the gentlemen here (and ladies) who have expressed that they would take an initiative and be as supportive as possible, thank you so much for your posts. It is greatly encouraging.
 
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Feb 7, 2015
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#10
Willie-T, I would be offended if I was called "secretary" instead of my real name after asking the person not to do so. Actually, if I am called ANYTHING that I ask someone not to call me, I find it offensive. Jim is being totally unprofessional, and I don't think it should be considered a grey line; his superiors shouldn't hesitate to order him to cut it out.
But we don't deal with hysterics. She has told NOONE in any position of authority, so how can they tell him to knock it off? They have not been told anything.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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#11
But we don't deal with hysterics. She has told NOONE in any position of authority, so how can they tell him to knock it off? They have not been told anything.
It's downright unfortunate, and... disturbing... that a grown man has to be "told" to act appropriately.

He should already know. Adding to the discomfort she is already feeling, now Carrie would get to deal with the fallout of confronting a senior employee who brings in a great deal of money for the company. No one is exactly going to be on her side. And the fact that other long-term employees have told her Jim is known for this tells her that either no one has stood up to him, or if they have, nothing has ever been done about it.

Everyone has a right to be called by their own given name and not something someone else makes up for you.

I purposely left some of the details vague because I was interested in the resulting interpretations. "Carrie" and "Jim" are very much based on a real-life situation.

I'm sad to see that Carrie would have to fight so hard to get someone to believe her.

Willie, I myself have dealt with these kinds of things and all I can say is, I'm glad you're not my father, because you obviously wouldn't believe me even if I chose to tell you.
 
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ChandlerFan

Senior Member
Jan 8, 2013
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#12
I do think that Jim is in the wrong and is being unprofessional here. I think that began when he began making comments against her wishes. I will say, though, that for someone in a totally objective position outside of the situation where they are listening to Carrie's claims against Jim's, the burden of proof is really on Carrie and that puts her in an unfortunate position. The right thing to do, though, is still to go to management and to also put Jim in his place when such comments are made.

If I were Carrie's significant other, I would try to work with her to determine what she wants to do and what the best course of action is. If she wants to switch jobs, I would help and support her in that. If she wants to talk to management, I'd gladly go with her to support her.

The last thing I'll throw out is that I would be careful about presenting an initial scenario and then later manipulating it. To really be able to judge a situation accurately and give a proper opinion, it's nice to have all of the details up front.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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#13
If someone were to insist on calling me a (racist name for Asians) and I asked them to call me by my actual name, that would obviously be seen as wrong.

For instance, Willie, what would happen if you worked with a group of 20-somethings and one of them insisted on calling you a name that referred to the fact that you were much older than they are? Let's say you told this person, "I'd like to just be called Willie," but they insisted on calling you the name or term they had chosen, would you not consider this to be wrong as well?

Likewise, if someone is calling you by something they've chosen that you're not comfortable with and you ask them to call you by your given name, it is clearly wrong of them to continue to call you anything else.

"Baby" and "Cutey" are, of course, obvious. Which is why someone like Jim purposely thinks he can get away with a more "neutral-sounding" term.

But it's still clearly wrong, seeing as Carrie has told him to call her by her own real name.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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#14
The last thing I'll throw out is that I would be careful about presenting an initial scenario and then later manipulating it. To really be able to judge a situation accurately and give a proper opinion, it's nice to have all of the details up front.
Point taken, Chandler.

I don't regret doing so in this case because of the discussion it's brought up but I do understand your point.
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#15
Ive seen legitimate sexual harrassment in a few work places over the years. Legally speaking, I was told that sexual harrassment is defined as repeated unwanted attention/touch/communication of a sexual nature. So technically, a person can smack your bum once and its not sexual harrasment. Once you speak up about it, and it happens again, only then can it be considered harrasment in most workplaces. Has to happen more than once, thats why speaking up about it is so important. Just tell the offender that you don't like it and not to do it again. If they do anything after that, its 100% without a doubt sexual harrassment.

p.s. One ocassion was really funny. A guy got fired for quote "sucking on chicken bones in a suggestive manner". The victim was another guy, lol.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#16
I do think that Jim is in the wrong and is being unprofessional here. I think that began when he began making comments against her wishes. I will say, though, that for someone in a totally objective position outside of the situation where they are listening to Carrie's claims against Jim's, the burden of proof is really on Carrie and that puts her in an unfortunate position. The right thing to do, though, is still to go to management and to also put Jim in his place when such comments are made.

If I were Carrie's significant other, I would try to work with her to determine what she wants to do and what the best course of action is. If she wants to switch jobs, I would help and support her in that. If she wants to talk to management, I'd gladly go with her to support her.

The last thing I'll throw out is that I would be careful about presenting an initial scenario and then later manipulating it. To really be able to judge a situation accurately and give a proper opinion, it's nice to have all of the details up front.
Yes, it is important to view something with both eyes open. (Truthfully, I'm surprised someone besides me noticed some massaging of the details.)
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
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#17
I definitely appreciate that comments and feedback here, and hope it will continue.

After observing the direction of the conversation, I'm thinking what I should have done was present a more overt, unquestionable situation, because my primary interest in what someone would do personally if their significant other was being harassed.

But, you don't know if you don't try so... I'm taking notes and will try to incorporate this into other threads... In general though I have a tendency to allow for different interpretations, because something I'm very interested in is how we all make our judgments, how quick we all are to come to them.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#18
Point taken, Chandler.

I don't regret doing so in this case because of the discussion it's brought up but I do understand your point.
Unfortunately, this happens far too much.
 
Aug 2, 2009
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#19
Let me add that Carrie herself has noticed Jim making comments to some of the other young women, such as, when they're standing near a set of shelves...

"That's a nice-looking rack."
Thats not a rack, THIS is a rack!

weapons-expand-2-lg.jpg

But seriously... that right there was a solid case of sexual harassment. It doesn't matter if they were standing next to shelves. I'd like to see him try to explain that comment in court!
 

Jilly81

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2011
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#20
But we don't deal with hysterics. She has told NOONE in any position of authority, so how can they tell him to knock it off? They have not been told anything.
I'm saying that she SHOULD tell on him since he didn't stop after the OP stated that she had asked him to. The fact that he isn't calling her something specifically sexual doesn't matter; after the proper people have been informed of what Jim is doing, it should be their job to tell him to cut it out. It's not over-reacting to get him to stop.

Honestly, I think constantly calling a co-worker "pretty" is unprofessional as well.