Should a Person Actively Engaging in Sin Keep Quiet About Their Faith?

seoulsearch · May 3, 2015

Hey everyone,

I was talking with someone yesterday whom I thought had a really interesting point.

This person, whom I'll call Karen, knows a woman, whom I'll call Cindy, who professes to be a strong Christian (all names have been changed for the sake of privacy.)

Cindy is always telling other people about her relationship with God, how she's forgiven of her sins, loves the Lord so much, and then tells the other people she knows what they need to be doing in order to have as great of a relationship with the Lord as she has. Sounds wonderful, right?

Except that Cindy is unmarried, living with her boyfriend, and, as Karen said, "I know they're having sex!!! They have kids!!!" (and apparently have no intention of marrying, or at Cindy never talks about it.) Karen herself grew up in church and is well-acquainted with what it takes to know God, but Cindy speaks to her as if she is in a better place with God than Karen is and then tries to tell Karen what she needs to do with her life in order to get right with God.

As you can imagine, Karen is a bit troubled by this.

What do you the rest of you think? And NOT just about this example, but about the general principle itself--if someone is actively and unrepentantly participating in sin and is unwilling to give it up, should they just keep quiet about their faith? After all, the number one thing I hear when I try to invite people to church is: "Christians are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites," which is well-illustrated by the example I just gave.

BUT, if that's the case, wouldn't it disqualify ALL of us to ever speak to anyone about Jesus because we are ALL caught in some sort of habitual sin? It's just that some of us have more public sins than others--what about those of us engaging in things we shouldn't be looking at or thoughts we shouldn't have... some of us are consuming and abusing substances, even if some of them are illegal... some of us are harboring hatred, judgment, and unforgiveness... Obviously, the list of sins is endless, and we are all caught up in something.

The problem is, if perfection is required to be a witness to Christ, NONE of us could ever witness. But at the same time... Should we accept the double standard that it's somehow "ok" to tell people about Jesus if we choose "hidden" sins, but should we then keep quiet about our faith if our sins are on public display?

VioletReigns · May 3, 2015

If Karen is concerned about Cindy, shouldn't she tell her? Perhaps if Karen said to Cindy, "I'm really troubled that your engaging in an unmarried relationship is ruining your testimony." And if Cindy persists in preaching to Karen, maybe she could say, "I honestly can't accept your preaching to me while you're engaging in an unmarried relationship. It's too disturbing to me because I believe you're in error and need to get that situation right with the Lord."

zaoman32 · May 3, 2015

I feel like like there is no reasonable excuse to keep quiet about faith in God, but there is a way to do it realistically and another way to do it looking like a hypocrite. People who know me even slightly know that without a doubt I am a christian. People who know me personally know without a doubt that I have my struggles and "inner demons" if you will.

A lot of times when people are caught in obvious sin, and they themselves know they are obviously sinning, they try overcompensating by pushing Jesus and ministering Jesus on others. When I was married, and in way over my head with sinful behavior I was a lot more religious and "preachy" than I am now.

People will not choose God unless it's a choice made on their own, and you cannot expect them to choose God by pushing them too and still living in sin. Ministry is about recognizing that sin in your own life, and knowing you do wrong, and rather showing people God by speech, it's about showing people God based on your actions, what He has done in your life, and how you choose to live in forgiveness.

kaylagrl · May 3, 2015

seoulsearch said:

I heard it once said "the church is a hospital" we're all in need of healing from something. I use to be in ministry and I knew I was not a perfect Christian as much as I tried to be. I wasn't practicing in sin but, like all of us, I failed at times. I always told people this outright. Then I pointed to the Bible and talked about how many imperfect people God used because they repented of sin and truly wanted to serve God. We are to look to Jesus as our example,not people. People are human and fail. So I think it is the way in which you share your faith.

I dont preach at other people about their sin.That is up to the preacher.If he's doing his job we'll all be convicted of sin and repent. If someone asks me point blank i'll point them to the Bible,it will tell them what they need to know. So I think we can honestly share our faith. I had a neighbor that wasn't a Christian and she was having really bad struggles. I confessed my own weaknesses and issues I had to deal with in my life.She looked at me with a shocked look and said "Ive never know a Christian to be so honest and open!" And there is the key. If we act spiritually superior to others we are wrong,especially when people see us mired in sin. But if we are honest and say, I have to rely on Jesus to help me,Im not perfect, He is,no one can call us a hypocrite. Its not what I have done,its what He has done for me.You can never go wrong with that message.

ps . sorry I didnt realize this was in the singles forum,oops

seoulsearch · May 3, 2015

VioletReigns said:

Violet, I completely understand what you're saying and you bring up a very good point, but due to personal situations, Karen doesn't feel it would be her place to say something to Cindy in correction.

I'm going to use something else as an example in order to maintain privacy issues. Let's say that Cindy is Karen's boss and has a lot of clout over the direction of Karen's career. If Karen says something to Cindy, it's going to make life very difficult for her in several ways, and for a very long time.

I know people will say, "Well what's worth more, an earthly job or a heavenly reprimand?" but when you have a family to feed and your own children's livelihood depends on your job, it will make you think twice about the consequences of your actions, spiritual or not. Personally, if I were Karen, I wouldn't feel I could say anything either.

Keep in mind, this isn't the exact situation at hand. I won't state the exact situation to maintain confidentiality but I think everyone will get the general idea.

I don't want people to get too caught up in the example, but rather, again, the main focus here is the issue of how and when we should approach others about our faith when we ourselves are caught up in sin.

And Kayla, no worries--I posted this in Singles because the example is obviously something very relevant to single life.

tourist · May 3, 2015

If Cindy has kids with the man she is living with than there seems to be stability in the relationship. This appears to be a common-law marriage. Perhaps, she considers herself to be married in the eyes of God. I certainly would not recommend this type of arrangement because it could lead to many complications but it does seem to be working.

I can understand why Karen is troubled about the situation.

You were right in saying that if perfection is required to be a witness to Christ none of us would qualify.

I am not at all sure if Cindy has a sin problem in her life. If she does than she seems unaware of it. Karen should tell Cindy that she is troubled about the relationship that she (Cindy) is in. At the very least, Cindy has some explaining to do if she wants to continue to be a witness to Karen.

VioletReigns · May 3, 2015

As for your question, "Should a Person Actively Engaging in Sin Keep Quiet About Their Faith?", I think that covers all of us. None of us are perfect, we all are growing, we all have blind spots and the Lord is doing a work in each of us.

But as iron sharpening iron, we help each other grow in the grace of Jesus Christ and love for one another. If we see a brother or sister stumbling in error, we're supposed to help them as Jesus Christ would, right? And if a brother or sister sees us stumbling in error and tries to help us as Christ would, we're to accept their help.

But if Karen feels that is too great a risk to do with Cindy, and there is no option but to endure, then I guess she'll just have to endure.

Lynx · May 3, 2015

Speaking to the intent of the OP, rather than the specific example:

First there is a difference between stumbling every now and then and continually living in sin. We are not called to live in sin, we are called to turn from sin. For example, Romans chapter 6. If I go out to the bar every Friday and Saturday night and get drunk, that will hurt my witness. If I had a moment of weakness and let a cuss word slip (one of my personal weaknesses, currently conquered) that probably won't impair my effectiveness as a light in the world, but it is an indication I will need to shore some stuff up in my spiritual life.

From the thread title and the example used I'm going to assume we are talking about people who knowingly and regularly do things they know are sin. In that case my concern would be does a person in such a state have any power to back up his faith? Sure, "God hears the sinner's prayer" but God hears a prayer of repentance from a sinner. It's the effectual, fervent prayers of a righteous man that availeth much. Not a perfect man, but one who is doing all he knows how to do. If I were having an affair with someone else's wife (to use an example) I think I would be quiet about my faith.

See, I used to be a moderator in a christian chatroom. Said chatroom has long since passed away, but I can still remember one of the worst problems that we had was ops (moderators) who would leave their names logged in while they went to bed or work. The chatroom list showed them as present, but if someone needed an op and tried to get them, no help was available. We actually had to lay down a law for the ops that if you are gone from the computer for more than ten minutes either log out or deop so people will know you are not someone they should call on for help in the chatroom.

If I'm actively, regularly doing something I know very well is wrong, my ability as a christian to help others is seriously impaired. I think I would be very careful not only about criticizing others, but also about advertising that I am a christian. One, it gives people a bad impression of christians (and heaven knows they don't need MORE bad examples of christians.) Two, it tells people when they need someone to pray for them I'm someone they should turn to, when I'm not really in a position to help anyone.

About the advertising itself, that always comes down to HOW you are advertising God. There's a right way and several hundred wrong ways to do it. I know a lot of people who are very noisy about their faith but they phrase it in a way that puts others down. Aaaaaaand... that's all I'll say on that.

Fenner · May 3, 2015

I don't know what to say about this. If you ever meet me in person you'll know that I'm quiet and don't share a lot of myself, other then friend's or family. I think it's pretty clear to most that I'm a Christian. This is the hard part for me. I don't have a horrible past but involved myself and made a lot of choices that I'm not proud of. My fear, what if someone knows how I was and assumes the worst about me, so it's hard for me to share God. I hope that doesn't sound crazy.

cinder · May 3, 2015

There is a huge difference between people who are struggling with a sin they hate, hate the struggle, but just can't seem to stay free, and people who have either given up the struggle or simply excuse their sin or creatively reinterpret the Bible so that sin isn't sin for them anymore.

The Bible is pretty clear on this subject in places like 1 Cor 5:11: Have nothing to do with them. Now I'm not the foremost Bible scholar, but I did a little digging and it looks like the list there indicates habitual practices and the context indicates a lack of repentance. So I am all for discernment and not jumping to snap judgements about people (not advocating Amish style shunning here), but I think we've swung too far the other way. People need to be told that sin is sin and that they are lying to themselves if they think they can call themselves Christians while treating forgiveness as a license to continue in sin. Or is church one of the only membership organizations where you can keep your membership without following the rules and code of conduct of the organization?

Do need to point out that real life gets messy and sometimes things aren't as they appear. There was an engaged couple in a small group I joined and the gal had a special needs baby she was taking care of. Those who rush to judgement may have assumed that it was their child and they had been living in sin and his disability was God's judgement on them (yes that's extreme, but I'm sure some "Christians" would be capable of saying that). Truth of the situation: the child was her sister's kid and she had adopted him because her sister was a druggie and a completely unfit parent. Another friend became a single mom when she adopted the younger sibling of two children her parents had adopted because her parents were at their limit of children they could adopt and they wanted to keep the siblings together. But we all know how single moms are usually viewed in church. And then of course there are those who have become believers in the midst of sinful situations, and may not have the ability to get out of such a situation immediately after coming to the Lord (like the prostitutes my friend ministered to in Cambodia).

In person though, I tend to be a big softie and either don't say anything because I don't know how to say it in a way the other person will receive it so speaking seems useless or I just think it is something they should already know and think they are rebellious rather than ignorant. So yeah, knowing what should be done is much easier than actually doing it.

mystikmind · May 3, 2015

I don't think it is a question of hiding Christianity, it is about not hiding being a hypocrite!

Were all hypocrites sometimes, why be so fearful of it? Just be honest about it.

I see fear of hypocrisy as a wonderful trick that the Devil can use to bind (from both the perspective of the giver and the receiver of help/advice) people against trying to make the world a better place and trying to help others.

Roh_Chris · May 4, 2015

seoulsearch said:

As someone who recently moved out of a relationship, I will say that it is better to keep quiet about one's faith if one is actively and unrepentantly participating in a particular sin. Like Lynx said, there is a difference between stumbling and wallowing.

If I am aware that I am a swine wallowing in the mud, I will not preach to the other swines and tell them to get cleaned up. On the other hand, if I am a swine who tripped and fell into the mud while taking a leisurely stroll along the countryside on a sunny morning, I can still clean myself and preach to the other swines to get cleaned up. (Actually, I am still a bear ... I'm just giving you a non-beary example..

)

So, the question is whether you are a clean piggy or a habitually dirty pigggy.

Is that enough of an explanation? I can 'bear'ly wait to get out of this pigskin and flex my 'bear' arms.

AAAPlus · May 4, 2015

Does Cindy really have faith in Christ if she never intends to repent? Yes, we all sin, but we repent. If she constantly moves out and moves back in with her boyfriend, maybe that shows she's at least struggling with it.

In any case, she should NOT keep quiet about her faith. Maybe in sharing the good news of the gospel with others, she will convict herself to repent. Living with her boyfriend, to an unbeliever, isn't going to hold the same weight that it does with believers, so it won't impede her ministry to unbelievers as much as you might think.

pwrnJC · May 4, 2015

Do as I say, not as I do....modern scenario here for sure. I would definitely address Cindy next time she mentions anything about JESUS CHRIST. Politely ask 'Oh, really? Is this what you share with your live-in boyfriend too? Does he know JESUS CHRIST as his Savior, having an awesome relationship with HIM? Does he witness to others like you do, sharing the love and joy of being a holy spirit filled CHRISTIAN? Are you GODLY parents to your children? Hopefully, she can 'catch your drift" and be under conviction and change for the better, as you support her. However, if she retorts in an unCHRISTIAN way, tell her, "JUST as I thought....what is fair for the goose is fair for the gander". Let her walk away in guilt or with her blinders still on. Soon enough, others will either help restore her or disregard her foolishness.

PeterJens · May 4, 2015

The issue here is do you regard two people living together as married or not.
In cultures where marriage is setting up house together, that is what happens. Unfortunately our society as not distinguished between the new norm of behaving as being married while not going through the ceremony.

I would suggest in this situation, it should be talked through, else all this spirituality is just hypocracy.

I know a couple who talk about a deep walk with the Lord, but are forever going from church to church because no community is good enough for "their" level of understanding and commitment. They are a cross between bretheren and charismatics with super spirituality thrown in. What they probably do not realise is they want desperately to belong and be different, but they do not understand the concept to be in the world but not of it, they are literally terrified the world will pollute them, they dare not engage. Unfortunately this situation becomes a joke rather than a serious challenge to anything.

Lynx · May 4, 2015

seoulsearch you are just going to have to stop using examples. That's all there is to it. People keep getting so caught up in the particular examples that they ignore the subject you are trying to address.

Matthew4Jesus · May 4, 2015

Yes, when I was actively sinning, willingly sinning in the public eye I did not claim to be a Christian as everyone would see my sinful lifestyle as the representation of the Christian walk.

Jeff_56 · May 4, 2015

also, in GOD'S WORD, GOD gives the directions for the leaders in the assembly on what to do. it is their responsibility to do what GOD SAYS. He speaks directly to them and gives VERY SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS - so there's no question nor any wondering for them (leaders in the assembly) about what to do. the only question is will they do what GOD the CREATOR says, or will they do what the god of this world/the devil/ says....

Willie-T · May 4, 2015

I can't tell you how blessed I am to have found the church I attend. Here is our preacher, Chris, teaching on this very thing. It's Part VII of the Jesus Driven Life, 2014/05/03.

Sermons - St. Pete Vineyard

maxwel · May 4, 2015

Regarding the example of Cindy...
where in the bible do you ever find a genuine Christian who is NOT convicted about their sin?

Christians fail, they make mistakes, and they repent.
Christians sin, and God's spirit plagues their conscience, and they repent.
God's spirit works in us to give us a sensitive conscience,
and to draw us continually to repentance.

That is the mark of a believer.
Not that we do not sin, but that God's spirit brings us to repentance.

In the bible, there is really IS NO SUCH THING as an unrepentant Christian.
There is no such thing as a Christian who never feels guilt.

If Cindy is living in open sin, and feels no guilt of any kind...
there is simply no reason to believe she is a Christian.

Should a Person Actively Engaging in Sin Keep Quiet About Their Faith?

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