Should Women Just Accept That Their Future Husband Will Probably Watch Porn?

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

With all the threads we see here about problems with pornography, I have been seriously wondering how, as singles, we should react or respond to the fact that so many of our brothers (and sometimes sisters) in Christ struggle with this problem.

First of all, I'm not shaming anyone who struggles with this at all. We all have our own struggles and I admire anyone who is aware of their sins and chooses to engage in an active fight against their sinful nature. I have plenty of weaknesses to fight against myself.

But I'm also wondering what my prayers should be: "God, please send me a husband who isn't addicted to porn," or, "God, please make me strong enough to help him through the fight." I honestly used to pray the first prayer. But as time goes on, the second prayer seems like the only realistic thing to pray. Is this true?

Some men (and women) I've talked to have told me I just have to accept that "boys will be boys" and it's just a part of life you have to deal with (and, as is implied, accept.) Men tell me my expectations are way too high and that I'll never find anyone if I somehow expect them not to watch porn.

I can honestly say that one of the reasons I haven't had a boyfriend in so long (about 12 years) is because I'd rather choose to support a guy who's having this kind of fight as his friend rather than his girlfriend, seeing as I've already been there, done that, and wasn't handling it very well at all.

From the ages of 17-29 I was in 4 long-term relationships. Of the 4, one wasn't really into porn at all. He'd seen some things but didn't choose to continue watching them. Another had a "recreational" porn habit. He would occasionally look at this or that but it wasn't all the time, and he would often choose other things that interested him, such as sports or video games, instead. Another was definitely a "regular", seeing as, if you tried to turn on his TV, he'd have it queued up to a "movie" he'd been watching. And the other was a "semi-regular", meaning, at times I'd catch him watching things on his computer. One time he was printing out an entire stack of pictures... and apparently making his own "collection."

I remember very well how this made me feel and how I reacted to it. One had had a preference for "Asian porn", (I didn't know this until after we started dating), and it made me feel like a curiosity object--especially when he told me he would look at these things with his brother (talk about uncomfortable.) The other had a preference for a different ethnicity that I am not a part of, and of course, it all had the same effect: I felt... all wrong, inadequate, and like some sort of really lousy stand-in substitute for a fantasy they would certainly have much rather preferred.

All but one considered themselves to be Christans and all 4 (even the non-Christian) were fine with trying to adhere to a life of celibacy before marriage. (Ironically, the one who talked about sex the least was the one who didn't consider himself a Christian.)

This has just been my own personal experience when dating Christian men. I know they're human, and I know they struggle. I also know that some women struggle with this just as much as men. But I also wonder to myself, How much fallout should the significant others of those who watch porn be expected to take?

One of the effects this had on me was that it made my depression 10 times worse. At the time, I was experimenting with various measures of self-harm because I felt so inadequate. I also felt extremely bitter and hateful that they would choose to continue to do this, without even caring (or noticing) that I was hurting myself.

But in the time I've been away from all those kinds of conflicts, I've slowly gotten much better over the years (all the old self-injurious behaviors ceased many years ago, thanks to God's help and a very special friend who really listened to all my heartache.) I've learned how to listen to and be supportive guy friends who struggle with compulsive sexual behaviors... but I don't choose to date them, knowing it would probably send me into the same downward spiral that's been so much work to get away from.

I can honestly say that one of the reasons I've steadily been healed of many things over the years is because I'm not regularly dealing with being in a relationship with someone who is constantly choosing to mentally have sex with other women, (which, in 2 cases, led to them having physical sex with other women as well.) Sometimes over the years, I have been tempted to just throw in the towel and agree to dating someone who is a wonderful friend, but also struggling with this issue. But so far I've held back, because I often wonder what going back to such a situation would do to my emotional state. I can't say I want to find out. And, at least this way, I can still be a caring, supportive friend to him.

If I became his girlfriend, I would start to resent him, because in a relationship, this habit would make me feel like a sub-worthy play thing.

But on the other hand, it also seems to point to a life of always being alone. And, it doesn't leave much hope for anyone one either side of the issue. People struggling with this will think, "Oh no, I won't ever find anyone, because I can't see being free from this," while people who aren't struggling with this will think, "Why should I have to settle?"

Should we all just accept that porn is a regular part of many people's lives (especially men), and somehow accept that as "fact"? (Meaning, should we get to a point where we don't see it as "any big deal" and should "accept" or "expect" that we are going to find ourselves dealing with this kind of struggle through our relationships?)

After all, if we all wait for a partner who is healed of this, we might very well be waiting forever or could possibly miss out one someone we could grow closer to as we choose to fight this together. But should it always be expected that the partner without the porn issue should always be expected and required to constantly forgive, or even overlook, the continuous behaviors of the other who is still watching porn?

Where are the lines between setting a standard (allowing a relationship even if there's a struggle with porn going on), acceptance ("I don't want that in my relationship at all!", or "We are going to fight this together,"), and expectation ("Most like, I'm going to wind up with someone who watches porn so I better learn to accept it")?

As singles, what should our prayers be at night?

1. "Lord, please send me someone who loves just me, and doesn't need to look at other men/women for satisfaction."

2. "Lord, there are a lot of people out there struggling with pornography. If it's Your will for me to marry someone while they're still going through this, and might possibly never be healed, please make me strong enough to do so."

I would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[JonahLynx]

I don't think there's anything wrong with either of those prayers. Not all men have this problem, there are many who have overcome it. Temptation will always be there for everyone, but not everyone falls to the same temptations. I think the enemy has been very successful in convincing the church that lust is an unbeatable sin and that we just have to live with it. But this is a lie.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:4

Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you. Luke 10:19

Don't give up on those prayers. I know a few men who have defeated this completely, a few more who are growing in resistance, and others who stumble often. Perseverance is the most important weapon. And we shouldn't treat the issue as unbeatable, because I know it is from experience. The temptation is literally everywhere and it can become exhausting to have your guard up almost everywhere you go in the world, but it is possible to overcome... God says so.

 

[cinder]

To paraphrase someone much wiser than me: People won't differ much on what they call wrong; they will differ greatly on which wrongs they call excusable. And that seems to be a key issue here, and with any addiction really. Is this something they hate and are actively fighting, or have they settled into accepting and excusing that somehow this sin is ok for me to do, regardless of the damage it does to me, my relationships, and the people I'm in relationship with? It isn't so much about what sin and brokenness a particular person struggles with so much as it's about the fact that they are committed to that struggle and to victory regardless of the sacrifice required.

Most of us don't do that. Most of us love our ease and comfort above ridding ourselves of the last vestiges of sin. And this needs to be said too that porn (and the steamy romance novels that are often called emotional porn for women) is the lazy person's out. It's a way to get some of the benefits of a sexual relationship vicariously, without having to put the effort in.

Other things that I'll throw into this discussion: There's more to life (and marriage) than sex. They tell me it's an important aspect of marriage, but it isn't the only one. Song of Solomon is in the Bible so we need to somehow get clear on the idea that not everything that talks about or depicts sex frankly and openly is pornographic and sinful (granted most of it is, especially the stuff that comes from society, but where's a good Christian couple to turn if they find that area of their life dissatisfying and want to make it better?).

Only other thing I will say is I want to let the guys know that there is a thread in the ladies' forum titled do you consider porn cheating? Since the men can't read it, I will just let them know that most of the CC ladies who responded do indeed consider it equal to cheating.

Oh and to answer the OP, any guy who thinks it's ok for him to keep watching porn while he is dating or married to me is not someone I will continue to be with.

 

[sassylady]

I have such strong feelings about this that I wonder if I could ever marry again. I feel it is totally unacceptable for a husband to watch porn, or also to look at Playboy, etc. I wonder if I could ever marry a man who had ever once had the problem for fear he would start it up again.

I've been divorced about 10 years now. My ex was a truck driver for 4 1/2 years and I found out one day he had been buying girly magazines and had them on the truck. He occasionally took our son on trips with him when he was between 7 and 9 years old and my son found them. Plus he was flirting with waitresses and calling them honey and sweetie. When a physical issue prevented him from driving a truck any longer he spent hours on the computer and my son came in the room a couple times when I was at work and caught him looking at "the same kind of pictures I saw in daddy's magazines". I was overweight from having kids and felt totally rejected and undesirable. And regardless of what men say, a woman feels like she is being cheated on when her man is looking at something else. I can still feel the pain of what that did to me. And then a couple years later is when I found out he had been molesting our daughters. I have always wondered if the pornography led to the lust that caused him to do that, but I may never know what was going on in that mind.

I understand men are visual and if a woman walks past with not much clothing on a man can hardly help but notice it. But looking for something to look at is the problem. I have strong trust issues and wonder as I said if I could ever marry again.

 

[seoulsearch]

I understand men are visual and if a woman walks past with not much clothing on a man can hardly help but notice it. But looking for something to look at is the problem.

Sassy, I'm very sorry for what your family has gone through. I'm just thankful that you and your kids have gotten away from your ex-husband.

The saying that "Men are Visual" is one of my personal pet peeves because I always want to say, "What do you think women are, blind?"

Praise God for men who know better. But the part I hate about this line of thought is when it's used as an excuse:

* "Men are visual. Sure, I'm nearly 60 years old and haven't tried to actively take care of myself in decades, but I really need to find a young, good-looking woman in her 20's or 30s'... because after all, men are visual."

* "Men are visual. My wife's put on some weight after having our kids, and I'm just not attracted to her... I need to find someone else. After all, a man needs a woman who is pleasing to his eye... because... men are visual."

The most ironic thing to me is that many of the men who think this way don't seem to take an honest look in the mirror themselves... because many look just as pregnant as their wives (except that they never actually had a baby.) They seem to think that they can somehow eat whatever they want, never take care of their physical bodies, and yet somehow expect, or seem to think they have a "right" to finding a "hot" girlfriend or wife... because men are visual.

It annoys me when some men seem to think of this as some kind of God-given biological birthright rather than a matter of the flesh that God also expects them to learn to control.

I also have to shake my head when I meet men who seem to think that women don't care about whether men take care of their health and hygiene, as long as they can find themselves one. And I'm not saying that looks are what should matter most at all, but I do think everyone should try their best to take care of their own health, tough as we know it is.

My parents and I recently went to see "The Minion Movie". The two ladies ahead of us in line were probably around 60 years old... and they asked for tickets to the latest "Magic Mike" film. I had to kind of laugh to myself. If men are visual, are women "catching up"? (And yes, I know God holds us ladies accountable as well.)

I have no interest in the "Magic Mike" series and will never willingly see it. It's just a personal thing, but I've never found Channing Tatum (or the whole male stripping genre) attractive, although I've seen interviews in which, as a real person, he lavishes praise on his wife and daughter, which I greatly admire.

I also liked his character in "Jupiter Ascending" because he was willing to put his own life at risk in order to protect others. That's the kind of thing I'm really attracted to--loyalty, humility, self-sacrifice, and courage.

And of course, it also doesn't hurt if the person takes the time and effort to care for themselves. I would argue, perhaps unsuccessfully, that in our modern age of constant visual stimulation, women are, or have become, just as visual as men.

I know that I myself can confess to most certainly noticing a man who looks after himself (but not in a conceited way) vs. a man who does not. Again, it's not that looks are the most important thing, it's just that like most of us, women notice--and it does have an effect on our attraction.

 

[bowharp]

Thanks seoulsearch for sharing such a candid post.

I would personally get out of a relationship that has porn addiction. Before I was a christian, I was in a relationship with a guy who had porn issue. He started just looking at some pictures and gradually grew into the "hardcore pornography" and then he got our relationship into a weird things. It got to a point that emotionally, I was detected him. Sex was just sex.

I believe pornography is addictive like a drug. According to U.S. National Library of Medicine, "It concludes for the first time that a sexual compulsion can cause physical, anatomic change in the brain, the hallmark of brain addiction. A preliminary study showed frontal dysfunction specifically in patients unable to control their sexual behavior. This study used diffusion MRI to evaluate function of nerve transmission through white matter. It demonstrated abnormality in the superior frontal region, an area associated with compulsivity." ( Hilton & Watts, 2011).


Reference

Hilton, D and Watts, C. (2011). Pornography addiction: A neuroscience perspective
. Retrieved from Pornography addiction: A neuroscience perspective

 

[Oncefallen]

I'll try to remember to write out a longer answer later since I need to get ready for church, but the short answer to your thread title is:

NO, absolutely not!!!!

 

[ember]

Please don't be offended, but as the Bible says to FLEE from sexual sin, why would we in any way, shape or form make excuses for it?

Men who abuse their wives or girlfriends trust by polluting their brains with images of air brushed naked women, are simply giving in to their baser sinful unregenerated personalities.

Hey ~ I am extremely visual as an artist...I take it all in...I can't help it...that does not make me want to view porn and I've seen plenty as a Fine Arts Major in life drawing classes. There is something else going on when a person becomes addicted to porn...

PORN IS DEHUMANIZING for either sex.

We are told to stand against the devil's wiles but to RUN from sexual sin.

Obviously this is not a sin we can stand against if we start and continue to practice it...it will overcome us...it is the devil's twisted perversion of a normal interest and attraction to the opposite sex.

 

[MissCris]

ARGH!! Disappearing posts! Ah, well, maybe it's best if I just summarize what I triiiiied to post-

The moment women begin "accepting" porn being a given in what is supposed to be a Godly union between TWO people (not three, not two and a bunch of extras, not two and then some nekkid folks on a screen) is the moment we give up an essential part of who we are in Christ. Accepting a sin committed frequently by the person we are to be closer to than any other is a cop out and shows a lack of respect for oneself and one's spouse. It's Not acceptable, no matter what "logic" or "reason" the world tries to sell us to convince us otherwise.

That being said, if you find yourself in a marriage where porn is a problem (say, if it's a new thing, or something you somehow didn't know about before), then I think it becomes your burden to bear-Together- to fight it. That means taxing your joint resources; patience, honesty, forgiveness, humility, understanding, prayer, support groups, accountability- all of this and more.

However...you can't fight a battle With someone who isn't willing. If, after a time (and there's no set amount of time here, it could be months, or even years), it becomes clear that the person isn't trying, doesn't care, whatever- I think that's when it's time to stand down. Viewing porn Is being unfaithful, and there's only so much of that a marriage can take, only so much pain and rejection a person can bear.

Porn has been a factor in the break down of my own marriage. I didn't know the extent of the problem before we got married, and I haven't been much of an asset to my husband in his struggle against it. I've never accepted it as an ok thing, but I fought against it-and my husband-the wrong way.

But! In the last couple of years, God has done miracles in our marriage, and I would now say that my husband is a recovering addict. Every once in a while, I worry that he may go back to it...but I also don't dwell on that thought and I know we can overcome it again if we have to...now that I have a better understanding of him, of commitment, of being supportive, that is.

So that was a pretty long summary....

 

[Nautilus]

SHould they accept that he will watch porn? No, they shouldn't. Should they accept that he may stumble at some point and mess up, but its not totally a marriage ending bombshell? Probably yes. At the end of the day nothing makes porn any worse than any other sin, and it should be treated just like other sins. It's why they have marriage counseling and stuff.
From personal experience in my younger days I would occassionally watch porn even while in relationships. This is before I was a christian, but in all honesty it wasn't due to the fact I found the actresses more attractive than my gf at the time or even because I was unhappy with her. Mostly it centered around either the fact that she was gone or sometimes the act in the video which she might not be up for doing. She wasn't a fan but understood the reasons.
Ive stopped now, but like with most things the temptation is in the back of your mind its just about being strong enough not to give in. And I'm not saying its okay, but its also not always a personal attack on the wife in the situation either.

 

[Lynx]

Huh... Well I'll be a panther's uncle. I didn't answer in this thread before because I thought it might be taken the wrong way. But everyone else is saying what I was thinking. To wit: NO WAY should you just accept that! There are still guys out there who don't do it. And there are guys who may have tried it but now don't, and have determined they won't.

Don't.
Settle.

 

[sassylady]

Thanks seoulsearch for sharing such a candid post.

I would personally get out of a relationship that has porn addiction. Before I was a christian, I was in a relationship with a guy who had porn issue. He started just looking at some pictures and gradually grew into the "hardcore pornography" and then he got our relationship into a weird things. It got to a point that emotionally, I was detected him. Sex was just sex.

I believe pornography is addictive like a drug. According to U.S. National Library of Medicine, "It concludes for the first time that a sexual compulsion can cause physical, anatomic change in the brain, the hallmark of brain addiction. A preliminary study showed frontal dysfunction specifically in patients unable to control their sexual behavior. This study used diffusion MRI to evaluate function of nerve transmission through white matter. It demonstrated abnormality in the superior frontal region, an area associated with compulsivity." ( Hilton & Watts, 2011).


Reference

Hilton, D and Watts, C. (2011). Pornography addiction: A neuroscience perspective
. Retrieved from Pornography addiction: A neuroscience perspective

I remember a pastor talking about that study. I wondered when I heard it if that was what happened to my ex.

 

[sassylady]

Women just are not driven so much by what they see as men are.

Many men think just because they are looking but not touching there shouldn't be anything wrong with it.

I've heard men say I get my appetite somewhere else but I always come home to my wife. El Toro Manuro.

 

[seoulsearch]

And I'm not saying its okay, but its also not always a personal attack on the wife in the situation either.

One of my own personal flaws is that I've become all the more stubborn and bull-headed as I've gotten older. If I were with a guy who was looking at porn, even if he "didn't see it as a personal thing" against me, I would turn it into a personal issue because I would never willingly put up with him mentally having sex with other women.

The last boyfriend I had--around 12 years ago--made me so mad that I was tempted to start "accidentally" leaving pictures of men wherever he would find them, such as in his car, closet, refrigerator... and they wouldn't have to be "adult" pictures either. I know that even simple ads for men's fragrances, clothes, even cigarettes... would have gotten him going.

I knew what all his insecurities were--and would have purposely chosen pictures of men that exploited every insecurity (for instance, I know he was self-conscious about his nose, which he always felt was crooked and too big. It didn't bother me, but seeing as he was printing out stacks of Asian porn right in front of me without a care, I would have gladly left pictures all over his wall of fully-clothed men... with perfect noses.)

The hate was building up so strongly in my heart that it was starting to crack all over the place (it wasn't just the porn--there were several other issues going on), but fortunately, God helped me keep a lid on it long enough to leave the relationship instead.

I also have to admit that if it came to this in a marriage situation and it was a regular habit, I would cite adultery and leave the marriage--all to the tune of church condemnation, fire, and brimstone, I'm sure, but those are my personal feelings about it, because if I stayed... Literally. All hell would break loose.

 

[Lynx]

For some reason I'm reminded of a story of a navy guy who was stationed on Kwajalien Atoll in the Marshall Islands. His girl swore she'd wait for him, but six months into his assignment she sent him a letter that she was going with some other guy. She requested he return the picture he had of her.

He spent the next two days collecting every photo he could find of a girl of any kind - copies of guys' girlfriends' pictures, pictures of people's mothers, and a few snapshots of local topless natives for good measure. He sent all those back to her with a letter: "I'm sorry, I can't remember which girl you are. If your picture is one of these, please remove it and return the rest."

Doesn't have much to do with the thread topic, but seoulsearch reminds me of a girl version of that guy. Maybe his daughter?

 

[seoulsearch]

For some reason I'm reminded of a story of a navy guy who was stationed on Kwajalien Atoll in the Marshall Islands. His girl swore she'd wait for him, but six months into his assignment she sent him a letter that she was going with some other guy. She requested he return the picture he had of her.

He spent the next two days collecting every photo he could find of a girl of any kind - copies of guys' girlfriends' pictures, pictures of people's mothers, and a few snapshots of local topless natives for good measure. He sent all those back to her with a letter: "I'm sorry, I can't remember which girl you are. If your picture is one of these, please remove it and return the rest."

Doesn't have much to do with the thread topic, but seoulsearch reminds me of a girl version of that guy. Maybe his daughter?

I don't get it, Lynx... exactly what are you trying to say here???

Oh, now I get it! You're saying that when I confront a guy about his porn issue with pictures of other men... I need to throw in a few pictures of topless men as well... Just for good measure. I'll have to remember that tip!

 

[Lynx]

*shrug*
Eh, close enough.

 

[seoulsearch]

*shrug*
Eh, close enough.

(Hopefully The Lynx knows that Seoulsearch is just being her own trouble-making self and is just messing with his jokes. )

 

[Lynx]

I assumed as much. I was playing along.

Shhhh! They'll catch on.

>.>

 

[tourist]

I'm a husband and I don't watch porn. Women should neither expect or accept that their future husband is going to watch porn. Any man that does this has a serious character flaw.