So Let's Talk About Politics For a Minute...

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

Charlie Brown once said that there are 3 things you should never discuss with people: religion, politics, and The Great Pumpkin.

Somehow... I think the subject of religion is already covered *wink*, and I'll leave it to someone else to start a thread about The Great Pumpkin . But with all the focus in the news about potential US presidential candidates, I'd like to ask your opinions regarding politics and our Christian faith.

"Old-timers" here on CC might remember that I wrote a thread similar to this a long time ago, but with a new CC crowd here and a new election in the works, I'm interested in what you all currently have to say.

Several years ago I read a dating profile in which a gentleman stated that he voted for X, and that he believed "God led him to vote for this candidate."

The interesting thing was, I had voted for the opposing candidate--because I too believed God was leading ME to vote for THAT particular person. My family is believes very strongly in the husband leading, but not lording over, his family. The women in my family look to the men as spiritual leaders but are also encouraged (and expected) to voice their own opinions and it is sometimes agreed upon by both spouses that she will not always make the same choice as their husband regarding things such as voting.

As a single woman, I look to my father for guidance in sorting out the political windstorm of trying to choose a candidate to support (if I were married, I would obviously look to my husband for such leadership.)

Here are some questions I have when it comes to God and politics (feel free to answer any or all of them):

1. Do you believe that God wants a certain candidate to win? If so, would He then lead ALL of His people to vote for that candidate, or no? Why or why not?

2. Would God lead some of His people to vote for Candidate X and some to vote for Candidate Y? Why? Would this not be seen as creating division?

3. Would God lead a husband and wife to vote for different people?

4. I stated in my opening example that the gentleman voted for Candidate X and I voted for Candidate Y. We BOTH believed that God was leading us to make the choices we did. Does this mean that either one, both, or neither of us really heard from God?

5. If you have no peace in your heart about any of the candidates or don't feel knowledgeable enough, is it better just to not vote at all?

I would really appreciate any feedback you have on these topics. I find this subject interesting and more relevant than ever because we all know our country is in need of a candidate who will fulfill God's will.

I'm looking forward to hearing your answers!

 

[zeroturbulence]

Individual votes for president no longer matter thanks to the electoral college system...

Back in 2000 Al Gore won the most number of votes, but he didn't win the states with the most electoral collage votes so he lost (to Bush).

 

[seoulsearch]

Individual votes for president no longer matter thanks to the electoral college system...

Back in 2000 Al Gore won the most number of votes, but he didn't win the states with the most electoral collage votes so he lost (to Bush).

Hi Zero,

This is an excellent point and I do understand what you're saying. But I wonder, would God tell us, or not want us to vote anymore just because of this?

Or would He still want us to vote?

 

[zeroturbulence]

Hi Zero,

This is an excellent point and I do understand what you're saying. But I wonder, would God tell us, or not want us to vote anymore just because of this?

Or would He still want us to vote?

He would have to persuade droves of voters within a state to vote for a particular candidate. The crazy thing is that even if a state's popular vote is for one candidate, the official who actually casts the electoral vote can go against the popular vote. They aren't obliged to cast their vote according to who the people voted for. Is that crazy or what?!

U. S. Electoral College: Who Are the Electors? How Do They Vote?

quote from that website:
"Are there restrictions on who the Electors can vote for?
There is no Constitutional provision or Federal law that requires Electors to vote according to the results of the popular vote in their States."

 

[seoulsearch]

P.S. For all our friends out there who are from other countries, please don't let that stop you from answering.

Anyone is welcome to post. Some of these questions might apply to the political system in your country as well.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Sorry Kim, didn't mean to... whatever it is I did there.. I just hate the electoral college system with a passion.

 

[seoulsearch]

Sorry Kim, didn't mean to... whatever it is I did there.. I just hate the electoral college system with a passion.

No worries, Zero. You brought up a very good point.

One of the reasons this interests me is because I have an entire section of my notes devoted to passages in which "God Influenced Decisions and Outcomes".

For example, Haggai 1:14 -- "The Lord stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel, the spirit of Joshua, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people..."

Revelation 17:17 -- "For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His plan..."

And so I think about things such as God influencing people to actively put a certain person of His choosing in office... ? Through our decisions when voting?

What do you all think?

 

[passing_through]

Individual votes for president no longer matter thanks to the electoral college system...

Back in 2000 Al Gore won the most number of votes, but he didn't win the states with the most electoral college votes so he lost (to Bush).

The Electoral College was put is place for a good reason.

As Alexander Hamilton writes in "The Federalist Papers," the Constitution is designed to ensure "that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications." The point of the Electoral College is to preserve "the sense of the people," while at the same time ensuring that a president is chosen "by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice."

May we never have mob rule.

 

[zeroturbulence]

The Electoral College was put is place for a good reason.

As Alexander Hamilton writes in "The Federalist Papers," the Constitution is designed to ensure "that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications." The point of the Electoral College is to preserve "the sense of the people," while at the same time ensuring that a president is chosen "by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice."

May we never have mob rule.

Yes, it was for a good reason back when some states had such small populations that they were virtually powerless come election time. We're way past that point today.

 

[seoulsearch]

While I do appreciate that you're pointing out some important facts about the pro's and con's of the system, it would make its own excellent, but separate, thread topic.

The flaws in our political system is NOT what this thread is about at all.

I'd really, really appreciate it if we could start getting some answers to the original questions asked in the thread.

Please? And thank you.

 

[passing_through]

While I do appreciate that you're pointing out some important facts about the pro's and con's of the system, it would make its own excellent, but separate, thread topic.

The flaws in our political system is NOT what this thread is about at all.

I'd really, really appreciate it if we could start getting some answers to the original questions asked in the thread.

Please? And thank you.

Without the Electoral College any ole Sod Buster could be President without qualification.

 

[zeroturbulence]

While I do appreciate that you're pointing out some important facts about the pro's and con's of the system, it would make its own excellent, but separate, thread topic.

The flaws in our political system is NOT what this thread is about at all.

I'd really, really appreciate it if we could start getting some answers to the original questions asked in the thread.

Please? And thank you.

See... charlie brown was right!

 

[seoulsearch]

See... charlie brown was right!

Yeah... and we see what happened to Charlie Brown.

He went Trick'or'Treating... and all he got was a bag of rocks... that probably sank his thread topic.

Oh well. Hopefully there will still be some people out there who will want to talk about the questions in the original topic.

 

[Lynx]

While I do appreciate that you're pointing out some important facts about the pro's and con's of the system, it would make its own excellent, but separate, thread topic.

The flaws in our political system is NOT what this thread is about at all.

I'd really, really appreciate it if we could start getting some answers to the original questions asked in the thread.

Please? And thank you.

Now you see why you should never discuss this.

As to the person I should vote for, and whether I feel God wants me to vote for a certain person - I have no idea at this time. I'm keeping my ears open and I'll pray before I go vote, but with the current list of candidates I can't see anyone being someone a christian would be happy with. I strongly suspect this time around we'll just have to hold our nose and vote as best we can.

I know someone will bring up Daniel 2:21 and Romans chapter 13 et al. So I'll go ahead and bring that up. Yes God's will is going to be accomplished in the global political stage. That doesn't mean either of these candidates is anything at all close to what God wants ruling this country. To say God sets up the president is to take several verses out of context and twist them.

But God's will IS going to be done. Might be in spite of whatever president we have, but it will be accomplished.

 

[Stravinsk]

(snip)

1. Do you believe that God wants a certain candidate to win? If so, would He then lead ALL of His people to vote for that candidate, or no? Why or why not?

2. Would God lead some of His people to vote for Candidate X and some to vote for Candidate Y? Why? Would this not be seen as creating division?

3. Would God lead a husband and wife to vote for different people?

4. I stated in my opening example that the gentleman voted for Candidate X and I voted for Candidate Y. We BOTH believed that God was leading us to make the choices we did. Does this mean that either one, both, or neither of us really heard from God?

5. If you have no peace in your heart about any of the candidates or don't feel knowledgeable enough, is it better just to not vote at all?

1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Yes. One of you didn't, or both of you didn't. Of course, this is all under the assumption that God approves of human government in the first place.
5. Yes, for conscience sake if this has become a moral issue for that individual.

Since this is a Christian forum, I submit this for reading interest:

1 Samuel Chapter 8

 

[Lynx]

I Samuel would only apply if the USA had begun as a theocracy. It was formed as a democracy.

(And considering some of the churches I know of today I'd be scared if it WERE a theocracy...)

 

[Stravinsk]

I Samuel would only apply if the USA had begun as a theocracy. It was formed as a democracy.

(And considering some of the churches I know of today I'd be scared if it WERE a theocracy...)

Republic, actually. Democracy and Republic are not synonymous.

From my viewpoint, 1 Samuel chapter 8 communicates a message that is independent of country or it's political or philosophical beginnings. Most human governments enslave and abuse their citizens, whether it be by the decree of King or executive order of President, or act of Congressional body.

 

[Lynx]

Someone sounds like he's been reading Pibgorn. Every Sunday the author takes a break from comics and posts a political diatribe.

Pibgorn Comic Strip, September 06, 2015 on GoComics.com

 

[seoulsearch]

1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Yes. One of you didn't, or both of you didn't. Of course, this is all under the assumption that God approves of human government in the first place.
5. Yes, for conscience sake if this has become a moral issue for that individual.

Since this is a Christian forum, I submit this for reading interest:

1 Samuel Chapter 8

Although I don't believe God necessarily "takes sides" in this kind of political systems (I certainly don't believe God is for a certain political party at all), I have always found it interesting that God definitely has an opinion about who should be leading His people.

As one pastor I heard put it: "God wanted Saul dead and David to take his place." Simple as that. Another example, God chose to remove Eli from leadership because he allowed his sons to run rampant and put Samuel in his place.

And to Pharoah of Egypt (who would not let His people go,) God says in Romans 9:17--"I RAISED YOU UP for this very purpose, that I might display My power in you and that My Name might be proclaimed through all the earth." Whether God personally chose him or not, one thing is clear--God allowed him to rise to the throne with a plan and purpose in mind.

I personally believe God has a great interest in whom we choose as our leaders. Now, will He lead us to vote for certain people, if we have the privilege of voting and choosing? (Even if in some cases, it's kind of an illusion...)

I guess that's still up for debate.

 

[Stravinsk]

Although I don't believe God necessarily "takes sides" in this kind of political systems (I certainly don't believe God is for a certain political party at all), I have always found it interesting that God definitely has an opinion about who should be leading His people.

As one pastor I heard put it: "God wanted Saul dead and David to take his place." Simple as that. Another example, God chose to remove Eli from leadership because he allowed his sons to run rampant and put Samuel in his place.

And to Pharoah of Egypt (who would not let His people go,) God says in Romans 9:17--"I RAISED YOU UP for this very purpose, that I might display My power in you and that My Name might be proclaimed through all the earth." Whether God personally chose him or not, one thing is clear--God allowed him to rise to the throne with a plan and purpose in mind.

I personally believe God has a great interest in whom we choose as our leaders. Now, will He lead us to vote for certain people, if we have the privilege of voting and choosing? (Even if in some cases, it's kind of an illusion...)

I guess that's still up for debate.

A careful reading of 1 Samuel 8 does not reveal a preference of leader at all, but rather - that God is displeased with the whole idea. That is why He says to Samuel that it isn't Samuel they are rejecting - but God himself, as they insisted on having a King like other nations. So then, reading on in that chapter, God outlines the consequences that will have and what the leader will do.

Not all that different from today's condition, if you ask me.