The Nice Guy

[GaryA]

The term 'nice guy' has apparently changed very drastically in the past 50 years...

Being a 'nice guy' and being a 'doormat' are two totally separate things. A 'nice guy' may also be a 'doormat', but the idea of being a 'nice guy' - and, what a 'nice guy' is - is in no way defined or shaped by the idea of being a 'doormat'.

The term 'nice guy' is defined by ( or, at least, used to be ) the [ honest and good ] intentions and motives of a man - the way he thinks about, and treats, other people - and, especially, women.

The "attachment" of the idea of 'doormat' to the idea of 'nice guy' is simply an attack by Satan on the "goodness and properness" of being a 'nice guy' ( something we are supposed to be ) - "to make nice guys look bad" - to make it seem "undesirable" to be a 'nice guy' - to encourage men to be something other than a 'nice guy' - as if there was something wrong about being a 'nice guy'...

( How effective to you believe Satan has been with this? )

 

[Shawn2516]

I wouldn't propose a guy to be a "nice guy". Atleast not it is current form or definition.

Nice-Guy's are repulsive to women, because they lack confidence, are push-overs, think their self-righteous niceness deserves them a date, and generally are people pleasers. A woman wants a protector, provider, and someone who can push back when push comes to shove. Nice-guys by today's standards are the complete opposite of this. And to put it bluntly, a little bit feminine.

You can be kind, you can be a gentlemen, but any guy who gets called a nice-guy by a woman is like a death wish. Yeah she may "say" nice things about you, but you'll never get a chance to be with her ever.

I would say its better to just work on yourself, be kind, not nice, design your own destiny, and if a woman likes you or see's where your going in life, than she will come after you, you won't have to go to her. How do I know this? Because I was a nice-guy for 25 years, but as soon as I stopped be nice and started working on myself and my own destiny, that is when destiny found me.

I am not trying to be hard on anyone here, I am just being hard on myself and telling myself what really happened those 25 years for me.

 

[JonahLynx]

I'm thinking there is a balance, like when Jesus said "Be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves." It's possible to be kind and gentle while also confident and assertive. Problems come up when we have too much of the 'snake' that we become heartless tyrants, and when we have too much of the 'dove' that we become weak cowards. I'm not using that quote exactly as it was intended, but do you get my point?

 

[Tintin]

I don't think I'm entitled to having a girlfriend or anything like that and I know my Bible, but I have a poor grasp of boundaries (great at helping others, not great at knowing how to say NO). As such, I lead a tortured existence - spiritually, emotionally and to an extent - physically. But when push comes to shove, I will shove.

 

[jsr1221]

I'm thinking there is a balance, like when Jesus said "Be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves." It's possible to be kind and gentle while also confident and assertive. Problems come up when we have too much of the 'snake' that we become heartless tyrants, and when we have too much of the 'dove' that we become weak cowards. I'm not using that quote exactly as it was intended, but do you get my point?

So when does one know how to balance the two, and know when to be the snake and to be the dove?

 

[JonahLynx]

So when does one know how to balance the two, and know when to be the snake and to be the dove?

I think we know what our weaknesses are for the most part. I grew up very complacent and easily coaxed away from what I wanted or knew was right (with everyone not just in relationships). Personally I felt improvement after loads of conviction when God started to guide me towards the idea of respect. IMHO a big part of the 'nice guy' is a lack of respect for himself and others. On the one hand he won't respect his own conscience and values making these poor decisions, and on the other hand he won't respect the person's intelligence or emotional stability to decline an offer. I'd say that someone who can't say "No" without a long, disarming justification should try to think a little less about how the person would feel and more about whether it is right or wrong. Someone who can't handle a "No" answer really has bigger problems.

But then you have the other extreme where there is no compassion at all and it falls into pure selfishness. If the biggest theme in the Bible is loving your neighbor (behind loving God obviously) then there is some sacrifice that comes with any relationship. I've tried not to go too far into the 'snake side' being too direct and arguing just to prove a point. Or not considering the impact of what I do and how abruptly. Someone who deals with that my way or the highway mentality sounds like someone with a spiritual problem, and I definitely don't want to be that person either.

Anyway, this is longer than I expected. TL;DR -

None of the fruits of the spirit are very macho are they? Gentleness, grace, peace? When in doubt I'd try to line up with them. But if you don't have the courage to stand for what is right or take charge when necessary then you have a problem. Be confident and assertive in a peaceful way.

 

[Utah]

You can be kind, you can be a gentlemen, but any guy who gets called a nice-guy by a woman is like a death wish. Yeah she may "say" nice things about you, but you'll never get a chance to be with her ever.

Ridiculous. Change your scenery; hang with godly women who appreciate "nice" godly men. Sheesh.

 

[maxwel]

So when does one know how to balance the two, and know when to be the snake and to be the dove?

Try studying Proverbs.

It's written to give us subtlety and discretion.

Proverbs specifically teaches about this balance.

 

[PoetMary]

I've been saying "nice is different than good" for years. I got it from a line that Little Red Riding Hood sings in the Stephen Sondheim musical "Into the Woods."

In the context of the musical Little Red was singing about the Wolf and how he "seemed so nice." All con-men and an awful lot of serial killers "seem nice" to people, but they're significantly lacking in ethics. In the context of the book (I'm guessing) that "nice" refers to people pleasing. That's it's better to seek after God and his ways instead of seeking to please people.

When men bemoan how women don't like "nice" men they're usually referencing themselves. And what they fail to realize is that it doesn't have to do with "nicety" in the sense of kindness, gentleness, ethics, etc. Nor is it that women love "bad" men in the sense that they prefer men who lack ethics. I think people in general appreciate other people who are not easily manipulated. And what some people call "nice" really is "bend over backwards to indulge people without regard for boundaries or ethics."

Personally, I've always aligned myself with the OT prophets...who weren't particularly nice.

But I do think it's a mistake to worship at the altar of "bold." There is no ONE way people have to be to please God. He creates a wide variety of people. To act like everyone needs to fit a particular mold to be a real man of God seems...lacking in grace. For example, Peter was bold....but there's not a lot of evidence that John was "bold". He was faithful, and clearly beloved. He had a real handle on the love of Christ, but he wasn't at all like Peter.

I think it's dangerous to begin teaching that men have to behave in a kind of externalized "bold" way in order to really be Christian men. I don't know that there's really a precedence for this. There were plenty of honorable Christian men throughout history who were scholarly and developed the kingdom via their words rather than via the sword (the early church Fathers, St. Augustine, etc.) I'm not sure if "bold" is an apt word for C.S. Lewis, who lived a rather safe and intellectual life in Oxford; creative, insightful, clever....but I'm not sure that "bold" fits.

I don't think you have to be "bold" to serve Jesus. I think you have to be fearless (which isn't the same thing). The bible says that "he has not given us a spirit of fear, but of love and of a sound mind." I've met a lot of "bold" men who were full of fear. They masked it with an externalized kind of bravado...and succeeded in fooling many people. I've known a lot of quieter, gentler, peace-loving men who were fearless. The kind of men that people presumed to be "passive" until it was crisis time; then these men were warriors.

I've had my own struggles with fear vs. love, as well as "bravado" vs. fearlessness. The thing about being fearless is that it frees us from pleasing people and helps us focus on pleasing God....which ironically makes us better at meeting the true needs of the people around us.

 

[PoetMary]

Nice-guys by today's standards are the complete opposite of this. And to put it bluntly, a little bit feminine.

I love how "nice guy" is defined as lacking confidence, being a push-over, and people pleasing and THEN it's also called "feminine"

So somehow women are inherently lacking in confidence, they're push-overs, and they're into people pleasing because they're wired biologically different?

Or is it that we expect women to be this way?

Or is it just a kind of off-handed, unexamined (but yet still vaguely insulting) remark?

 

[jsr1221]

I wouldn't propose a guy to be a "nice guy". Atleast not it is current form or definition.

Nice-Guy's are repulsive to women, because they lack confidence, are push-overs, think their self-righteous niceness deserves them a date, and generally are people pleasers. A woman wants a protector, provider, and someone who can push back when push comes to shove. Nice-guys by today's standards are the complete opposite of this. And to put it bluntly, a little bit feminine.

You can be kind, you can be a gentlemen, but any guy who gets called a nice-guy by a woman is like a death wish. Yeah she may "say" nice things about you, but you'll never get a chance to be with her ever.

I would say its better to just work on yourself, be kind, not nice, design your own destiny, and if a woman likes you or see's where your going in life, than she will come after you, you won't have to go to her. How do I know this? Because I was a nice-guy for 25 years, but as soon as I stopped be nice and started working on myself and my own destiny, that is when destiny found me.

I am not trying to be hard on anyone here, I am just being hard on myself and telling myself what really happened those 25 years for me.

Care to provide your definition of the word kind, then, since you use it to contrast the word nice?

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

"A gentle spirit is precious to God"

I am not really concerned with earthly ideas of whats "manly" and what makes a man a "man", Im really just concerned with being close to and loved by God.

If this affects finding a wife in the future, I believe if it is Gods will that I find one, that I will. And if I dont, I have God, so its not like I cant live without it


Christ did have times when He got serious when dealing with people who went against God. I know that when I see someone trying to spread a doctrine that stands against Gods word, I will speak out against it using His word.

That being said, Im not gonna do anything more than spread the Gospel Thats for the Lord to do.


As for being confident or whatever, everyone is different, some guys are generally more social than others, while some guys deal with things like anxiety, and sometimes are even just not really that talkative. None of that is really all that important though, we should be more focused on whether or not we are being what God wants us to be, and not whether or not we fit a societal mold made for gender.

 

[Shawn2516]

Ridiculous. Change your scenery; hang with godly women who appreciate "nice" godly men. Sheesh.

Really? How is that working out for you? 50 and not married, and yet your hanging around all the godly women. What happened?

I'll let my wife know she's didn't make the cut and Utah is hording all the godly women for himself.

jsr1221
Care to provide your definition of the word kind, then, since you use it to contrast the word nice?

Sure and thanks for asking. I was a nice-guy myself for 25 years. Infact, labeled as "too nice". I never said no, always had a pleasant smile, always helped, and tried to make everyone around me happy. Infact, what was good for others, was not good for me. It only ended in me being miserable, depressed, and easily taken advantage of. I suppose where I went wrong was the fact that I assumed that just because i'm nice to people, they will be by default, nice back to me. If I go help them fix their tire, when comes turn around for that same person to help me fix mine, it wasn't the case.

When I say be kind, I mean your a person who is respected for your leadership, and your kind in the sense that people understand that your taking out your time of the day, which could be family time, work time, ect, and spending your money or resources on them. Its understood that you are the one helping them and not the other way around.

If your a push-over (aka nice-guy) and you help someone, they do not have this same sentiment about you. They have no respect for you, and in turn, just take advantage of it. It is the same type of respect when one hears a commandment from a king who takes time to help you vs a slave who takes out the time to help you. One is more honorable, the other is pretty much disregarded.

 

[tourist]

Nice guys finish last.

 

[seoulsearch]

Nice guys finish last.

Now tourist, you can't possibly mean that.

I recall your threads all over the forum about meeting someone here, falling in love, and winding up married with a place to call home and someone to go home to...

Just sayin'... Your own testimony goes against this!

 

[tourist]

Now tourist, you can't possibly mean that.

I recall your threads all over the forum about meeting someone here, falling in love, and winding up married with a place to call home and someone to go home to...

Just sayin'... Your own testimony goes against this!

I was kidding. I should have included the little smiley.

 

[nw2u]

I was kidding. I should have included the little smiley.

Honestly tourist, I think you are nothing like a "nice guy", in the context being used here. I've read your posts. They are usually to the point without being ambiguous.

 

[Utah]

Really? How is that working out for you? 50 and not married, and yet your hanging around all the godly women. What happened?

I'll let my wife know she's didn't make the cut and Utah is hording all the godly women for himself.

Uh oh, someone's thin skin is showing. Can't handle his words being critiqued so he lashes out with immature words deemed to be hurtful. Tell you what kid, I'll let you know if I ever care what you think of me. I promise.

 

[Shawn2516]

Uh oh, someone's thin skin is showing. Can't handle his words being critiqued so he lashes out with immature words deemed to be hurtful. Tell you what kid, I'll let you know if I ever care what you think of me. I promise.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't of responded. And yeah, be a old 50 year old man sitting in his self-righteous chair and thinking to himself 50 years of age has earned you the right to talk down to others. No one cares that you don't care old man.

 

[Starsdance]

I have read a Christian book named "Nice Guy meets Nice gir", lol