thoughts on modesty...

[Depleted]

Been there, done that...I don't go to those places either...however, there was the one church I went to where there were no standards...I saw quite a few 'Kill your mother' band shirts with expletive language and pentagrams and such... One singer was wearing ripped Daisy Dukes...
I thought I'd just wait and slip out at the end...but when the lesbians started making out in the row in front of me, I figured that was my clue that I'd been there way too long.

Here's the secret -- wander around casually before hand. Then, if the place isn't your type, wander right out the door before everyone starts taking their seats. I suspect the biggest thought in someone's mind is I might have forgotten something in my car. And they're right. I forgot to go to a better church. lol

 

[NukePooch]

Here's the secret -- wander around casually before hand. Then, if the place isn't your type, wander right out the door before everyone starts taking their seats. I suspect the biggest thought in someone's mind is I might have forgotten something in my car. And they're right. I forgot to go to a better church. lol

LOL.
My big problem was that I am terminally early, and, as it happened, all of the alternative people were late.
I have walked out of a couple churches before service...one of which was actually due to my OCD tendencies. The sanctuary was designed, I believe, to do everything different for the sake of being different. The stage was in the corner of the room, the two screens were at different angles to each other so they didn't match, the seats faced straight ahead...so you'd sit there and watch the stage out of the corner of your eyes? It made my head hurt...

 

[Tinuviel]

The big question: WHY are you wearing it? And, another one: if you thought you might run into Christ at that supermarket/beach/whathaveyou, would you like to be wearing it?

Everyone has very different and unique body types, so it's not like we can across the board say "Waterfall blouses are wrong," or "Jeans are wrong" or "tank-tops are wrong". I am an indie fashion/costume designer, and I've seen a lot of stuff in my time. No matter what body type you have, you can find something that is cute (sorry guys, nice) and flattering and STILL modest.

 

[LovinHim]

I really think that's something that you decide for yourself. I was raised wearing skirts my whole life. We wore long ones but we kept our length to just below the knee. Yes, skirts are very modest but I don't see anything wrong with pants either just as long as there not too tight.
As for bikinis...I've never liked then because they are very immodest. But I really think it's something you find out for yourself. Pray about it an see what God shows you!
I really enjoyed your post!!
Amy

 

[Tinuviel]

I really think that's something that you decide for yourself. I was raised wearing skirts my whole life. We wore long ones but we kept our length to just below the knee. Yes, skirts are very modest but I don't see anything wrong with pants either just as long as there not too tight.
As for bikinis...I've never liked then because they are very immodest. But I really think it's something you find out for yourself. Pray about it an see what God shows you!
I really enjoyed your post!!
Amy

Just my two cents I LOVE skirts, (both for looks and modesty reasons) and I wear them often but there are also times when I feel like they are LESS modest than a pair of jeans would be. (Let's be honest, there's no way to keep your skirt down when you're running full tilt, and even if you have something under it, it still doesn't look good!)

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Now this is what I don't get, why are skirts (generalized) considered modest by almost all Christians ?
Skirts come in all lengths. Why should it be more modest to show my calves than to cover them in tight pants?
(I don't like tight pants btw, just making a point)

 

[EarnestQ]

Regarding the disagreements I received above, I will concede that I could have worded my comments a little better.

But I also said:
But, since I have never before verbalized this preference, I don't hold them accountable to follow it. It is just my preference. Ditto in church, or anywhere else. I can't control them.

I trust there is no disagreement with that.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

awww. Tinnuviel beat me to it

 

[Tinuviel]

awww. Tinnuviel beat me to it

..........

 

[OwzK]

Burkas do not stop lust. And, no, I don't admire it when a woman is forced into wearing uncomfortable clothes so men can pretend they don't lust.

I'm not talking about burkas, I said "those big similar to nun dresses things they wear"

A burka is the headgear thing they wear. I made VERY CLEAR in what I said the big similar to nun dresses, from head to toe. In other words, what's defined as Hijab. And they wear Hijabs to prevent perverted thoughts when with men... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab

If you're gonna express an opinion on a comment, at least know what you're talking about.

 

[cinder]

I'm not talking about burkas, I said "those big similar to nun dresses things they wear"

A burka is the headgear thing they wear. I made VERY CLEAR in what I said the big similar to nun dresses, from head to toe. In other words, what's defined as Hijab. And they wear Hijabs to prevent perverted thoughts when with men... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab

If you're gonna express an opinion on a comment, at least know what you're talking about.

Did you read that link? It says hijabs are scarf and headcoverings, not full length dresses. For what it's worth, when I was visiting the Arab world the men had to wear white robes (in the one country where traditional dress was mandated for all of the native citizens) and the women wore black ones called abayas (though I imagine there are as many different names for that robe as there are muslim majority countries). But the point that has been made by many, and Lynn's point, was that what a lady wears doesn't automatically make her modest or not and it can't prevent lust. Arguing over such trivialities as vocabulary is the recourse of someone who has already lost the argument.

 

[peacenik]

Burkini designer says French bans have boosted sales - to non-Muslims

Recent bans on wearing the burkini in France have boosted sales around the world, especially to non-Muslim women, according to the designer of the full-body swimsuit.
Aheda Zanetti, a Lebanese-Australian who is credited with creating the light-weight two-piece swimsuit, said a series of bans across 23 towns in south-east France had led to a surge in interest.
The potential buyers are mostly non-Muslims, including cancer sufferers and women who prefer to be fully covered at the beach.
“It’s just been so hectic,” she said. “I can tell you that online on Sunday, we received 60 orders – all of them non-Muslim.”
Ms Zanetti, 48, said that she typically received about ten to twelve orders on a Sunday.
She said she had sold an estimated 700,000 of the garments since 2008, including customers who were “Jews, Hindus, Christians, Mormons, women with various body issues”.
Since the French bans, Ms Zanetti said, she has received a flood of emails supporting her design.
“A lot of the correspondence ... was that they are survivors of skin cancer and they’ve always been looking for something like this,” she said.

​

The burkini has been banned from French beaches CREDIT: AFP
​

“The support I’m getting is somehow about empowering women ... I feel like I’ve been a counsellor.
"Women are standing together on this. It doesn’t matter what race or religion.”
Australia has experienced occasional expressions of anti-Muslim sentiment in recent years, including the election of four MPs from the anti-Muslim One Nation party at a general election last month.
However, the burkini has generated little controversy and has even been adapted for use by female Muslim life savers.
Explaining her inspiration for the design, Ms Zanetti said she “wanted to make sure we blended in with the Australian lifestyle".
"It's just a name that I invented,” she told Fairfax Media. “It doesn't mean anything. It's really an Islamic two-piece bikini, but that sounds stupid."




Burkini designer says French bans have boosted sales - to non-Muslims







If it's modesty that you want, you got it.

​

 

[crosstweed]

I've never understood 'situational' modesty... One wouldn't wear a bikini or a speedo to church, work, or even a grocery store, yet it's somehow okay to wear it to a public beach? Doesn't make sense to me. I know I'm likely in the minority here, but I think shorts and t-shirts at a minimum, all the time. Even the guys. I don't want to see some shirtless guy riding a lawn mower in the neighborhood. Especially a fat hairy shirtless guy. (Like my dad...I'd like to tell him that the neighbors have no desire to see his gut, but he just wouldn't care...~rolls eyes~)

On a more serious note: a bit of a warning or sorts for anyone who is 'on stage' on a regular basis. As a sound, light, and video tech, I've noticed that 'modest' dress has to be taken to new dimensions when you're on stage. Singers, preachers, presenters, etc, if they desire to remain modest, need to take into account the room that they're in. I was once a tech in a large youth (teenage) ministry. The room had seating for 450 or so with elevated 'stadium' style seating. I noticed that some guys were excited about seeing down the shirts of the teen singers on stage (because they were looking down on the stage)... The band/singers all dressed modestly, but they had no idea they were still putting on a show...

So...if you're on an elevated stage with people looking up at you, and/or if you have crowd or video cameras 'above' you looking down, might want to take that into account.

I mostly agree with this. I don't understand situational modesty; the verse that comes to my mind for some reason is, "let your yes be yes and your no be no". If you think you should dress modestly out on the street, you should also dress modestly on the beach. There are some situations where I will dress more conservatively than I would at home (youth camp and some of the more conservative churches I visit come to mind), but I try very hard to be a "safe" person to be around wherever I am ("safe" meaning someone who isn't tripping up another person spiritually with what I wear). I rarely go swimming in a public area, but if I do... two baggy teeshirts and a swimskirt that doesn't cling.

The stage thing is also true. I distinctly remember that I was going to be singing up on stage with some girls at my church and my aunt pulling me aside and telling me that whatever I wore on stage would appear shorter to everyone in the congregation and that I needed to take that into consideration.

For years I have told myself that the "standards of public modesty" should be "don't show what you don't want strangers to touch in that situation".

If a woman is wearing a plunging neckline, she is inviting every man who sees her to touch the part of her body she is showing off (at least with his eyes). Let's face it, revealing any part of your body to others is "showing off" that part of your body.

That is where business clothes come in. It is inappropriate to show off ones body in a corporate business context. (Instead, people show off their financial status - but that is a different thread...)

In the context of a beach, attendance there is voluntary and "showing off" ones body is, unfortunately, a part of the non-Christian mindset. Those who go to a beach are aware of what they are immersing themselves in, whether they approve it or not. This includes going to a "tops optional" beach.

Nevertheless, it is "my suggestion" that those Christian women who visit a beach take into consideration "my preference" of not showing what they don't want "me" to touch.

But, since I have never before verbalized this preference, I don't hold them accountable to follow it. It is just my preference. Ditto in church, or anywhere else. I can't control them.

I just wish they realized that by showing off parts of their body, they are forcing me to touch it with my eyes.

I both agree and disagree with this. The principle is good is a lot of ways, BUT:

- If a complete stranger randomly tried to touch my face, they would retract a hand minus fingers.

- A woman is responsible for what she shows off, a man is responsible for what he lets himself look at. There's a huge difference between accidentally bumping into someone at the grocery store, and giving them an intentional caress; just so, there is a world of difference between an unintentional glance a a poorly clad woman, and checking her out.

 

[crosstweed]

As I've grown in my faith and have shifted my priorities when it comes to the type of woman I want to be with (and therefore the type of woman I am attracted to) I've started thinking about the way I present myself (and how that affects the kind of women I would attract) and the way women present themselves. Whether it be with makeup or their clothes or their choice of language...etc. Simply put I want to dress modestly and am now more attracted to women who dress modestly as well, but I'm not sure what I should consider modest nowadays.

I've seen people say that "it's about not causing the opposite sex to lust after you". Well even what most women consider modest today would have been considered immodest in the past. Just 100 years ago a girl showing her ankles was considered just as risque and immodest.

So, if what a person considers to be modest and immodest is subjective, where do we (or should we) as Christians draw the line? I know there are specific passages in the Bible that talk of this or that, but it seems like most posts I read everyone kind of has their own idea of what it means. Should I just decide for myself?

Also I was at the beach recently for vacation and I noticed that literally every girl was wearing a bikini. I can't remember it always being like that, and I know this is pretty commonplace in our society today, but do Christian women wear bikinis? They seem very immodest to me, but then again I could be considered immodest wearing thigh shorts and no shirt. So let's say I met a Christian woman who wears bikinis, or even regular clothes that I thought were immodest, is that something that I should just get over? Is that just me being judgmental? Shouldn't she have the say in what she considers to be modest or immodest? I don't know I'm just thinking out loud here now.

I'm just looking for some insight/advice on how I should think about this issue in my personal life. Thanks for reading if you did!

(and yes I know men can be just as immodest, but as a male I am speaking from my POV, so please don't freak out and think I'm acting all high and mighty here as though men can't be immodest, they can be, but again I'm just speaking from a man's POV and what I should look for)

Don't expect it to be easy to find a woman who dresses modestly nowadays: there is huge pressure on girls to cave into current fashions and show off their bodies, including within the church. Some do it to rebel, some do it because their friends are doing it, and some do it because so many guys, even "Christian" guys, encourage or pressure them to dress that way.

However, I want to encourage you: they do exist - you just have to look for them. Frankly, I think someone who takes her personal standards and convictions from the Bible instead of what her friends/the world tells her she has to wear in order to be accepted is worth waiting/hunting/and holding out for.

I distinctly remember when I was in Costa Rica with a short-term missions group and something happened that helped me understand part of why so many girls cave to that pressure.

I had packed some inexpensive clothes because I knew we would be working in slums and I didn't want to make anyone we were trying to help feel ashamed/come across as an entitled American/make me a target for thieves/kidnappers; I was also dressed more conservatively than I would have on my own, because I didn't know what type of people would be on my team/who I would be working with, and I wanted to be careful and considerate of them.

There were 2 guys on my team, preppy types, well-groomed, and good-looking. One day, while we (a girl from the base we were working out of, the 2 guys, and myself) were working in the kitchen after lunch, and one of them made a semi-derogatory comment about how I dressed.

That stung. I wasn't interested in him or his friend (there was something about both of them that I hadn't liked from the get-go, and neither did the other girls on my team), but the fact that I was catching flack about from two physically attractive guys who literally didn't know jack-squat about me just because I was trying to be careful about how I dressed bothered me a lot. And I spent plenty of time thinking, "If I have to dress provocatively in order to catch the eye of an attractive guy [I took note of the type of girls at the base that they flirted with and who flirted with them], no wonder so many girls do it. Trying to be good and not a stumbling block is not enough for them. It's not what they want."

I tried not to lose perspective, though, and I don't think I did, because I remembered that that wasn't the type of guy I was trying to attract, anyway. I'm glad I stuck by that. (*pokes ntw1103*) ^u^

 

[MollyConnor]

Don't expect it to be easy to find a woman who dresses modestly nowadays: there is huge pressure on girls to cave into current fashions and show off their bodies, including within the church. Some do it to rebel, some do it because their friends are doing it, and some do it because so many guys, even "Christian" guys, encourage or pressure them to dress that way.

However, I want to encourage you: they do exist - you just have to look for them. Frankly, I think someone who takes her personal standards and convictions from the Bible instead of what her friends/the world tells her she has to wear in order to be accepted is worth waiting/hunting/and holding out for.

I distinctly remember when I was in Costa Rica with a short-term missions group and something happened that helped me understand part of why so many girls cave to that pressure.

I had packed some inexpensive clothes because I knew we would be working in slums and I didn't want to make anyone we were trying to help feel ashamed/come across as an entitled American/make me a target for thieves/kidnappers; I was also dressed more conservatively than I would have on my own, because I didn't know what type of people would be on my team/who I would be working with, and I wanted to be careful and considerate of them.

There were 2 guys on my team, preppy types, well-groomed, and good-looking. One day, while we (a girl from the base we were working out of, the 2 guys, and myself) were working in the kitchen after lunch, and one of them made a semi-derogatory comment about how I dressed.

That stung. I wasn't interested in him or his friend (there was something about both of them that I hadn't liked from the get-go, and neither did the other girls on my team), but the fact that I was catching flack about from two physically attractive guys who literally didn't know jack-squat about me just because I was trying to be careful about how I dressed bothered me a lot. And I spent plenty of time thinking, "If I have to dress provocatively in order to catch the eye of an attractive guy [I took note of the type of girls at the base that they flirted with and who flirted with them], no wonder so many girls do it. Trying to be good and not a stumbling block is not enough for them. It's not what they want."

I tried not to lose perspective, though, and I don't think I did, because I remembered that that wasn't the type of guy I was trying to attract, anyway. I'm glad I stuck by that. (*pokes ntw1103*) ^u^

It's really awesome to hear a sister take so much into consideration when it comes to how they dress.
I'm glad you did not cave in. Very inspirational!