-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D
Leadership is mainly a trait of the alpha male type. Honestly, that's what it is. There are leaders and there are followers in the world, and it all depends on a personality trait more than anything. Simply put, not everyone is a leader. I'm not even sure some people could even be trained to be. God made us all different for a reason I think.
M
I think one thing often overlooked when talking about men being 'leaders' is the idea that if a man is not outwardly confident or even dominant some women associate that with weakness, this is where an individuals own maturity comes into play.
A guy could be shy in his manner but that doesn't mean that within a relationship he would be a walkover and let his partner run the show, it's presumption and a fairly baseless one, having a subdue nature isn't weakness.
That is something that can go in the thread for women
just because you can't instantly see a guys leadership qualities doesn't mean they aren't there, after all bravado doesn't equal maturity.
A guy could be shy in his manner but that doesn't mean that within a relationship he would be a walkover and let his partner run the show, it's presumption and a fairly baseless one, having a subdue nature isn't weakness.
That is something that can go in the thread for women
just because you can't instantly see a guys leadership qualities doesn't mean they aren't there, after all bravado doesn't equal maturity.
Hawkfan - everthing that you want here is very valid, and you are also right it will be very hard for you to find a church like that. So I suggest you join the Amish. Your doctrinal views are spot on with them. They have uneducated and submissively unopinioned women a plenty, they look after their own kind and dont do any missionary trips and they educate their children by their own kind. Sounds like just the thing for you
D
I think I stated my case to support HawkFan pretty well. The statistics don't lie, and if you honestly took a look at society as it is today compared to only 50 years ago, you would see the major change. Only in the last 50 years have things been different. Throughout the entire history of mankind, women were women and men were men. You wonder why there are so many divorces and older singles nowadays. You have your answer if you look at history.
Right on, Feminism has spread so far and deep into our lives that even so called Christians can't see it for what it is right in our own homes and churches. But so has liberalism as a whole. It is amazing how disrespectful grown woman can be to men in their speech and actions, something that would never of been socially acceptable 50 years ago.
You'll know the right person when God gives them to you, your own personal sins you deal with will be a part of both the girl and the guys life in a relationship. Nobody is ever ready for marriage, God gives to you someone who fits your personality, who you are best friends with, and honestly someone you can't resist physically or emotionally. Nobody ever DESERVES a girlfriend or boyfriend, we are given the right one by God in his time. Men need to have old fashioned values based in biblical principles, hard work, being able to provide for the family, and be a spiritual and emotional leader for his wife and kids. And women need to learn to submit to their husbands and God, as well as concentrating on the house and kids.
You'll know the right person when God gives them to you, your own personal sins you deal with will be a part of both the girl and the guys life in a relationship. Nobody is ever ready for marriage, God gives to you someone who fits your personality, who you are best friends with, and honestly someone you can't resist physically or emotionally. Nobody ever DESERVES a girlfriend or boyfriend, we are given the right one by God in his time. Men need to have old fashioned values based in biblical principles, hard work, being able to provide for the family, and be a spiritual and emotional leader for his wife and kids. And women need to learn to submit to their husbands and God, as well as concentrating on the house and kids.
K
Im just saying... Good luck finding a church. I think you should complain less and instead of demanding things you're going to be hard pressed to find, if you want to change the world or your country the first place to start is your attitude and your community in that order. And if you find a lot of people up against you for what you want to achieve thats when you join the Amish.
Women are never impressed by men who twiddle their thumbs and do nothing while complaining.
Women are never impressed by men who twiddle their thumbs and do nothing while complaining.
That is something that can go in the thread for women just because you can't instantly see a guys leadership qualities doesn't mean they aren't there, after all bravado doesn't equal maturity.
just because you can't instantly see a guys leadership qualities doesn't mean they aren't there, after all bravado doesn't equal maturity.
Just food for thought.
K
You didnt state your case well at all. Are you at college? Dont they teach you there to look at an argument from all sides and if you actually form an opinion then to bring said evidentiary support you claim to have?
Your statement is so bland and vague. Human history is big, arent you going to clarify which bits in history exactly illustrate this? There are hundreds of reasons why divorce is so prominent today and you want to blame every single divorce on feminism?? Thats not a strong case at all.
I laugh cos its funny. The only people who have clearly disagreed with my post is a guy who does not wish to stop verbally abusing women nor give up his porn. And thats not Christian anyway so he doesnt count. Ive had 4 private email messages from men who agree with this post and every female has agreed with me that they do want a man who wants to actively grow in the fruit of the spirit. Every other male has just chosen to get defensive and bitter and claim the worlds ruin is womens fault. Its everybodys fault!
The whole point for this thread was to make guys think - So if I want a girlfriend so badly, and Ive been praying for ages, what have I not been doing to encourage this important social interaction? Who have I been allowing to influence me in regards to this? Friends who drink and party and hook up? A father who used to beat you up as a kid? An older godly man whose been around the block a few times and knows far more than you do? Men dont become men by themselves.
Paul told Timothy to appoint elders and Pastors in the church so that they would lead fathfully. He gave them personality requirements so that the men in the church would look up to them as models for themselves and their own families.
3:1 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.
If God didnt want men to follow the lead of their male superiors, why the heck would that be in the bible then huh? And if church elders and older men are to mentor young men how to be loving leaders, then where are they going to be introduced for the first time huh? CHURCH!!
Submitting and leadership go hand in hand. Leading doesnt mean your more intelliegent, more competent and superior to your wife. And submitting doesnt mean, negating your own thoughts and wishes and acting more inferior. Ephesians says:
5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
Paul is saying SUBMITT TO ONE ANOTHER. and then goes on to say that in a marriage a husband has his wife's back and a wife has her husbands back. I serve you, you serve me (because we love one another and Jesus). There is no taking only giving.
Your statement is so bland and vague. Human history is big, arent you going to clarify which bits in history exactly illustrate this? There are hundreds of reasons why divorce is so prominent today and you want to blame every single divorce on feminism?? Thats not a strong case at all.
I laugh cos its funny. The only people who have clearly disagreed with my post is a guy who does not wish to stop verbally abusing women nor give up his porn. And thats not Christian anyway so he doesnt count. Ive had 4 private email messages from men who agree with this post and every female has agreed with me that they do want a man who wants to actively grow in the fruit of the spirit. Every other male has just chosen to get defensive and bitter and claim the worlds ruin is womens fault. Its everybodys fault!
The whole point for this thread was to make guys think - So if I want a girlfriend so badly, and Ive been praying for ages, what have I not been doing to encourage this important social interaction? Who have I been allowing to influence me in regards to this? Friends who drink and party and hook up? A father who used to beat you up as a kid? An older godly man whose been around the block a few times and knows far more than you do? Men dont become men by themselves.
Paul told Timothy to appoint elders and Pastors in the church so that they would lead fathfully. He gave them personality requirements so that the men in the church would look up to them as models for themselves and their own families.
3:1 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.
If God didnt want men to follow the lead of their male superiors, why the heck would that be in the bible then huh? And if church elders and older men are to mentor young men how to be loving leaders, then where are they going to be introduced for the first time huh? CHURCH!!
Submitting and leadership go hand in hand. Leading doesnt mean your more intelliegent, more competent and superior to your wife. And submitting doesnt mean, negating your own thoughts and wishes and acting more inferior. Ephesians says:
5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
Paul is saying SUBMITT TO ONE ANOTHER. and then goes on to say that in a marriage a husband has his wife's back and a wife has her husbands back. I serve you, you serve me (because we love one another and Jesus). There is no taking only giving.
Last edited:
K
I think one thing often overlooked when talking about men being 'leaders' is the idea that if a man is not outwardly confident or even dominant some women associate that with weakness, this is where an individuals own maturity comes into play.
A guy could be shy in his manner but that doesn't mean that within a relationship he would be a walkover and let his partner run the show, it's presumption and a fairly baseless one, having a subdue nature isn't weakness.
That is something that can go in the thread for women just because you can't instantly see a guys leadership qualities doesn't mean they aren't there, after all bravado doesn't equal maturity.
A guy could be shy in his manner but that doesn't mean that within a relationship he would be a walkover and let his partner run the show, it's presumption and a fairly baseless one, having a subdue nature isn't weakness.
That is something that can go in the thread for women
just because you can't instantly see a guys leadership qualities doesn't mean they aren't there, after all bravado doesn't equal maturity.
M
That's pretty much what I meant, there are behaviours and attitudes that look like leadership, then there is real leadership, sometimes if a woman can't see those outward qualities like confidence and assertiveness they think a man is weak and has no backbone etc.....but in reality he is probably just mature enough to put his energies to better use and is a leader in important, but less obvious ways.
But that comes down to the unwillingness of people to look beneath the surface and I guess we all do that in our way.
But that comes down to the unwillingness of people to look beneath the surface and I guess we all do that in our way.
M
You have to be joking me if we went by statistics, I guarantee I could prove anything. Did you know that in the United States 1 in 5 divorces are caused by Facebook!! Are you kidding me,just cause we blame something doesn't make it real! Our flesh(especially men) have a strong desire to put blame on anything that doesn't require us to take responsibility for our actions. I also read what you said earlier and I have to agree that women struggle as much as men in alot of the categories mentioned, but I also know that way to many men have their focus all wrong. They focus on their careers and finding a gf/wife/partner, instead of where their focus should be, ON GOD!!! Yes we are not perfect, but that does not mean we shouldn't focus our energy on growing to be more that we are. We as male sin so often in our desire to blame other people and things for what we have chosen for ourselves.
D
I don't really care if you believe me or not. I just know how society is different, and that divorce is the highest it's ever been in world history, and there has never been so many single 40,50,60 year olds in history except in the last 50 years. Can you explain why that is then, since you so strongly disagree with my statement? Man didn't go for God first in almost the entire history of mankind. Men have always gone for their jobs and a spouse over God. A lot of countries in the world are not even christian countries, so your argument still doesn't make sense why divorce rates and single older people is so sky high at this point in history. I'd like you to explain that before you claim I am so wrong, because you have not done so.
Kiwi and meridoc, please explain to me the reasons divorce and single older people is so sky high at this point in history compared the entire history of mankind. I'd like to hear your argument to refute my statement instead of just saying I am wrong and there are plenty of "other" reasons for it. You have stated none.
I also don't think you realize that I am not a guy who verbally abuses women nor do I look at porn, so maybe you should retract the statement. I never attacked you. I attacked your post about how you think men are doing it all wrong and how the single guys who have posted cries for help don't deserve relationships or any woman for that matter. You are not the person to be judging them in that light, because all they did was ask for help. All you did to help them was insult their intelligence in a lot of ways. If I have to be considered a porn lover and an abuser of women to defend the people that come on here asking for real help, I will.
Try toning your self-righteousness down a bit and realize no one is perfect. We can agree to disagree, but you honestly need to tone it down a bit instead of patting yourself on the back so much. If I took offense to your postings (and not the parts that say go to God or be a good person, but the parts that say "you don't deserve a woman, you don't deserve a relationship, these guys are boys and not men), then I'm sure other people will too.
Next time, try not to insult me strictly because I disagree with you on a few issues. I agreed with everything else, especially the fact that a man should grow spiritually, but I don't agree with the tone of your post which was basically bashing men. It struck me as a decidedly "men are inferior" type tone, and that isn't the right way to go about helping people. Encourage them, not berate them. I also never blamed women completely, I just said they had a part in it as well. I'm pretty sure if you would reread my posts you would see a decidedly "the blame is equal" stance.
Thanks, and God bless.
Kiwi and meridoc, please explain to me the reasons divorce and single older people is so sky high at this point in history compared the entire history of mankind. I'd like to hear your argument to refute my statement instead of just saying I am wrong and there are plenty of "other" reasons for it. You have stated none.
I also don't think you realize that I am not a guy who verbally abuses women nor do I look at porn, so maybe you should retract the statement. I never attacked you. I attacked your post about how you think men are doing it all wrong and how the single guys who have posted cries for help don't deserve relationships or any woman for that matter. You are not the person to be judging them in that light, because all they did was ask for help. All you did to help them was insult their intelligence in a lot of ways. If I have to be considered a porn lover and an abuser of women to defend the people that come on here asking for real help, I will.
Try toning your self-righteousness down a bit and realize no one is perfect. We can agree to disagree, but you honestly need to tone it down a bit instead of patting yourself on the back so much. If I took offense to your postings (and not the parts that say go to God or be a good person, but the parts that say "you don't deserve a woman, you don't deserve a relationship, these guys are boys and not men), then I'm sure other people will too.
Next time, try not to insult me strictly because I disagree with you on a few issues. I agreed with everything else, especially the fact that a man should grow spiritually, but I don't agree with the tone of your post which was basically bashing men. It struck me as a decidedly "men are inferior" type tone, and that isn't the right way to go about helping people. Encourage them, not berate them. I also never blamed women completely, I just said they had a part in it as well. I'm pretty sure if you would reread my posts you would see a decidedly "the blame is equal" stance.
Thanks, and God bless.
The one guy talking about the women wanting the men to go to church. Thats in the bible that the people are to go to church. Maybe if everyone would go to the churhes they could help chabge the bad churches.
About the women working. What world do you libe in? The women are working because the cost of living is so high it takes two to make ends meet. Plus the fact that there are not very many men who like in the old days took on more than one job if times needed it.
Plus the men are to have God as the head of them and if they are not going to church then they have not God as the head.
The women are to sumit to the man and the man is to treat them as queens.
You don't sound like you do that to me. The man and the women are equals. Not that the woman is to walk behind the man.
About the women working. What world do you libe in? The women are working because the cost of living is so high it takes two to make ends meet. Plus the fact that there are not very many men who like in the old days took on more than one job if times needed it.
Plus the men are to have God as the head of them and if they are not going to church then they have not God as the head.
The women are to sumit to the man and the man is to treat them as queens.
You don't sound like you do that to me. The man and the women are equals. Not that the woman is to walk behind the man.
M
Do you realize that in 1950 the divorce rate was 2.6 per 1000 population and the current is 4.0 per 1000 population and yes that is an increase but not as significant as people suggest. And as far as the reason for the large amount of older single people on big reason is because people have become disillusioned about marriage due to their experiences, world media, others opinions. And the world is degenerating all the time. Which is better a time when women married men that were horrendous to them, had mistresses, etc or a time where women have finally decided that they should hold out for so much better? Just because men because men have always done something (putting other things over God), doesn't mean its the way it should be. We as men need to stop whining about women's new desire for better husbands and just become better husbands.
that's a valid point. Guys with issues and insecurities is usually because they feel they can't meet up to what they think a christian girl would expect or want of them. Which is why women with lower standards seem more attractive. I personally find girls who don't go to church regularly more attractive, just because they are human and like to watch the news on a sunday morning or something. I couldn't stand a girl who drags you to church every sunday just because you have to go.