The Marriage Pact, 2.0 (2017 Edition). Now You Can Vote!

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

Since there was some interest in this thread, I decided to rewrite it in order to re-open the poll to the current CC crowd. As you can tell, it's going to take me some time to re-create the poll, so don't be surprised if it takes a while before you can see the options.

Here is the basic idea behind the thread:

Many years ago (I was just a kid), I knew a Christian couple who got married in my home church. Rumor had it (NO! Say it isn't so!! Rumors in church!) that the two had been best friends for many years and had made an agreement that if neither one was married by age XX, they would marry each other.

Needless to say, the marriage didn't last long... not even a year, if I remember correctly, and was seen as a bit of a scandal.

The two were strong Christians, raised in the faith, attended Bible colleges, and both held positions in the church--they were obviously very Christ-centered--and were best friends. Now I can't say for sure, but I would guess that they felt they were on the right path. After all, isn't this the "magical formula" people say will produce that Christian fairytale marriage everyone talks about? So what do you think went wrong?

At the time I wrote the original thread, I wrote it as a way of challenging the notion I often hear from other Christians: "All you need in order for your marriage to work is to make Jesus the center of your marriage!!!"

Please note that I believe 110% that a marriage needs to be focused on Christ above all else. But if it were true that ALL you need are two Christian adults who agree to put God first, then theoretically, ANY two adult Christians who are opposite gender and single "should" theoretically be able to have a successful marriage, right? So why then, doesn't that happen? Even if two people are completely focused on God, what's the crucial element missing that is needed in addition for a marriage to work?

* Have any of you had similar agreements or ideas with a friend ("I'll marry you by age XX if neither one of us is married yet")? Or would you?

* Do you know anyone else who has had a "marriage pact"?

* How did these agreements turn out, and do you know of any that were successful?

In high school I had a guy friend who once said that even if he and I never felt romantic love, "We'd be best friends and that's something a lot of people never have." We eventually went separate ways in life and you know how they always say hindsight is 20/20? I don't think we would have succeeded at marriage at all. Our friendship was awesome but we were very different people.

What makes our hearts so lonely and desperate that we are willing to grasp at what seems like the final straws? And, let's be real here--I truly believe that in some cases, Christians might agree to marry their opposite sex best friend... Because they want to have sex, but are trying to do so in a holy way. After all, haven't you lost count of the number of times someone has quoted, "It is better to marry than to burn with passion!" to you as a Singles Pep Talk?!

I would love to hear your thoughts.

The poll is anonymous and multiple choice--just give me a minute (or an hour!) to try to re-type everything.

 

[Yahweh_is_gracious]

Hogwash.

Sex is totally overrated. At least, I think it is, but I've never burned with passion, so I don't know what folks are talking about when they say junk like that. Still, getting married is a poor excuse to have sex. Marriage is not easy, and certainly not worth the trouble just to have sex without feeling guilty of fornication.

...yeah, yeah...shut up Yahweh. Okay, I'll go to bed soon

 

[seoulsearch]

I'm sorry to be making multiple, separate posts here, but I have a few other ideas I wanted to share and want to make them a little easier to read.

As I was rewriting this poll, I got to thinking, "How is a marriage pact all that much different from an arranged marriage?" After all, you're agreeing in advance to marry someone at or by a certain time, even though it might be an arrangement you are making as an adult, and not a decision your family is making for you, and many people sing the praises of arranged marriages because they are (statistically) so long-lasting.

I could be terribly wrong--perhaps a "marriage pact" in the sense we're speaking of is NOTHING like an arranged marriage at all?

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[seoulsearch]

Hogwash.

Sex is totally overrated. At least, I think it is, but I've never burned with passion, so I don't know what folks are talking about when they say junk like that. Still, getting married is a poor excuse to have sex. Marriage is not easy, and certainly not worth the trouble just to have sex without feeling guilty of fornication.

...yeah, yeah...shut up Yahweh. Okay, I'll go to bed soon

I have often wanted to make threads asking whether the Christian community has, in a way, created a culture in which people try to push or fool themselves into thinking they're ready to get married, or want to marry someone who obviously isn't good for them--and a bit part of it is because they are looking for a way to try to control, tame, and/or meet their sexual desire in a God-approved way.

It's a taboo subject, which is why I always WANT to write about it but haven't quite figured out how I want to say it.

I've heard/read so many stories of well-meaning Christians who married fairly quickly, then found that everything fell apart--and I have to wonder, if people were allowed to be honest, how much of it was based on the motivation of finally having permission to have sex?

I am NOT at all saying that people's ONLY motivation for marrying is to have sex. NOT AT ALL. But when you read the countless stories in the family forum, along with all the threads that say, "I'm looking to be married SOON because God says this is the cure for sexual temptation and I just can't take it anymore!!!" in the singles forum, I can't help but wonder.

I DO NOT mean this in a condemning way at all, seeing as a good number of Christians struggle with this temptation. But I also can't help but think of how much the feeling of, "I HAVE to find someone to get married to as soon as I can in order to have an outlet!" drives Christians to prematurely seek marriage before they are really ready (or can choose the right person.)

I'm pretty sure these ideas could be the basis for an entirely separate set of threads, all on their own.

 

[Lynx]

I think in a real life setting it would be taboo because everybody in the room would get uncomfortable, kind of like the church congregation would get uncomfortable if I preached a message from Song of Solomon. But in a forum the topic would be perfectly fine because on the internet nobody can see you blush.

I also think that's a big part of the reason I never bothered looking very hard for a wife. Sex in and of itself is not the end-game for me. I consider it an important part of a relationship (academically, not empirically... no personal experience for empirical observation) but I don't consider it THE most important thing. Thus I am content to be single and I don't want to get married until (or maybe even unless) I find a lady I want to be with for friendship and companionship reasons.

My only other thought on this topic at this time is this should be "The Marriage pact, version 14.7rev3" because of how long the other thread was.

 

[Susanna]

I think marriage pacts are made by people who are secretly in love, but for some reason don't dare come clean with their true feelings.

 

[cinder]

Theoretically it could work and I'd be all for the idea of a marriage that had a solid friendship at it's core, but I wonder if the whole idea of "going to search a while and then if I don't find anyone better, I guess you'll do" doesn't set up such a marriage pact to turn that marriage into a bit of a disappointment. It's kind of like setting yourself up to marry your last choice, and I think that could also breed a bit of resentment into the marriage that God didn't bring you anyone you wanted so you settled on someone you didn't really want. At this point I think I'm getting old enough that I'm too old for such nonsense, if I get along well with someone and think that I'd enjoy living with them and sharing my life with them more than being on my own; I'd be more likely to raise the question of should we consider giving it a go than, well if I can't find anyone in 10 years time or so how about we consider giving it a go. But for anyone else thinking of such a pactlike arrangement, well I guess it's important to realize that you can be great friends with someone and really value them and yet still realize that if you had to live with them, they'd drive you crazy and get on your nerves. Even if they're an amazing Christian and an amazing friend, you may be different enough that you can't live together (and it's best to find that out before jumping into a last chance marriage).

As for the difference with an arranged marriage, I think the big difference is that 1) divorce is still pretty taboo in a lot of countries with arranged marriages so there's a lot more pressure on people to make work and 2) an arranged marriage takes into account the wisdom of hopefully more objective 3rd party family members (and one's who've had a lot of experience at marriage and might just know a thing or two about what it takes to make a marriage work) 3) an arranged marriage I don't think has the same negative connotations as a marriage pact, it doesn't start out with a feeling of failure to find anyone better and I think that would affect the future of the marriage.

As for churches, marriage, and sex: Well I think churches have done a terrible job of casting a proper vision for marriage and communal life in general. At least for my generation growing up as a teen in youth group it was a whole lot more of the Jesus is the only one you need and Jesus should be enough (at least until God brings the magical "one" that's his perfect plan along). So the message I absorbed was much more about if you really love God you won't get distracted with romance, and that failing at least only allow romance with another christian rather than any sort of encouragement to think deeply and wisely about such issues. And if that is how you're training people, then the desire for marriage itself becomes almost a lesser level of obedience to God and the main reason to do so becomes so you can avoid the greater evil of fornication (which if you spent enough time in the youth groups of my youth, was kind of the second unforgivable sin). That's not correct theology, but it's definitely an attitude you can absorb in some churches (in other's you get the attitude that you haven't matured until you've married but that's another topic).

 

[zeroturbulence]

Marriage is overrated. It sounds great to those who've never been, but those who have been and still are will tell you it's not the wonderful life that you see in romantic movies and books.


....And the difference between a marriage pact and an arranged marriage is that in an arranged marriage you have no say in who you will marry. It's all decided on by your family and usually they make their choice based on who will best help the family's gain of wealth or power.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

I would never make such a pact ... it just feels weird.

I think it has SOME resemblance to an arranged marriage, but obviously in an actual arranger marriage you might end up with someone you think is a creep .... I'm not sure how arranged marriages were before (in our culture), whether there was any chance of having your say in them.

I can't really picture myself married but who knows ... weird things happen all the time

 

[zeroturbulence]

I would never make such a pact ... it just feels weird.

I think it has SOME resemblance to an arranged marriage, but obviously in an actual arranger marriage you might end up with someone you think is a creep .... I'm not sure how arranged marriages were before (in our culture), whether there was any chance of having your say in them.

I can't really picture myself married but who knows ... weird things happen all the time

I would never make a marriage pact either, unless I already felt like I'd want to be married to that friend... but as I have find out, being friends with a woman I'm attracted to just ends up in a broken heart (mine).

 

[blue_ladybug]

A marriage pact is ridiculous. Agreeing to marry someone just because neither of you are married yet is the silliest thing I've ever heard. It's like making a suicide pact, where one of them decides that just because they're all miserable, that they ALL should die together. :/

 

[Galatea]

If I can live without him, why would I live with him just to not be alone? Ridiculousness.

People sing the praises of the durability of arranged marriages without realizing that many times an arranged marriage is equivalent to slavery for a woman. There is no way out for women in certain cultures, if their husbands are abusive. They are tied to the man for life due to economic or legal difficulties. I live in an area with many immigrants, they came in the 1980s. There were a ton of women getting divorced here in their community once the families had been here a while and the women had economic and legal leverage that they did not have in their home countries. My great aunt employeed many immigrants, and she talks about one of her employees telling her that she did not know before she came to the U.S. that she could ever be able to escape her husband and abusive marriage.

I hate divorce as much as the next person, but I tremble to imagine someone choosing a man for me. It is a horrifying thought.

 

[Reborn]

Kim,
I'm sorry...you forgot to offer my plan as an option.

'If all else fails, l would marry my imaginary friend'

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

A former CCer and I joked about it once or twice─ of course, if I'm not apt to do it in all seriousness, I'm not apt to commit to some half-cocked pact.

 

[seoulsearch]

Kim,
I'm sorry...you forgot to offer my plan as an option.

'If all else fails, l would marry my imaginary friend'

You've totally got me beat on this one, Reborn.

For me, even marrying my imaginary friend is out.

First of all, his name is Norton, and I just can't picture wedding invitations that boast, "Seoul + Norton -- 4-EVER!!!" It's like the movie "When Harry Met Sally" and he tells her you can't be with some people because their name just doesn't work.

Plus, Norton and I argue ALL the time--usually over which one of us is more real.

Don't tell him I said this, but most of the time, I think he wins.

 

[Fenner]

My marriage pact was made over beer and a Little Debbie snack cake. I'm not sure how serious we were. I didn't marry him, I married someone else. He married someone else, he's happy (I think) and I'm happy. We never dated always friends and we still are. He lives in another state and he was friends with my Husband before I knew my Husband. So if I do see him, he brings his wife and bring my Husband.

Next month I will be married 18 years. I don't know what to say, I'm happy most of the time. Marriage and life can be stressful, I feel like my Husband knows me better than anyone else, I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

 

[seoulsearch]

Wow, I just read Oncefallen's posts in the original version of this thread...

You mean, all I had to do was ASK HIM to REOPEN the poll???

I wouldn't have actually had to write everything out all over again?

*double facepalm*

I shall never underestimate the power of a CC administrator again!

 

[seoulsearch]

My marriage pact was made over beer and a Little Debbie snack cake.

Well lookie here.

I just happen to have a bottle of Bud Light (which I plan to use for cooking chicken) and a Little Debbie Oatmeal Creme pie.

So.

WHO WANTS TO MAKE AN AGREEMENT TO GET MARRIED???

The line starts here...

 

[Wild]

Hogwash.

Sex is totally overrated. At least, I think it is, but I've never burned with passion, so I don't know what folks are talking about when they say junk like that. Still, getting married is a poor excuse to have sex. Marriage is not easy, and certainly not worth the trouble just to have sex without feeling guilty of fornication.


...yeah, yeah...shut up Yahweh. Okay, I'll go to bed soon

What a sad outlook on life.......its not overrated if you do it with someone you love ........

 

[DCrawshawJr]

On marriage pacts: They might work, but then again, they might not.

What makes marriage work? Believing and obeying the Word of God concerning marriage. You just do it; what's so hard about that? Yes, there's temptation to run marriage based on the world, this is where I recommended lots of prayer and sticking to lots of fellowship (might I also suggest having other godly relatives live with you? It doesn't have to be a nuclear family, you know!)

And as for getting married to have sex without sinning, as long as your motivation is backed up by Scripture (which, from all those Singles Pep Talks, it most certainly is), why not? All sins are greivous, but it seems that sexual sin gets higher billing in Scripture, which is why avoiding it is talked about more often. So...I guess there must be something really bad about sinning with sex if it's mentioned so often.

Again, I've heard people say that marriage is not easy. Yes, it's not easy, but is it really that hard (not the finding someone, that's hard, but the marriage itself), as if it's translating dead languages? But that's for another thread.