Disturbing Attitudes on this Forum

[Galatea]

I understand completely that God calls us to love the unlovely, seeing as, in our sin, we are just as unlovely to God as well.

When I wrote my thread, I was thinking of issues such as codependency and when we need to break ourselves off from people who aren't just needy, but are also abusing other people.

The "love of God" can look very different from what we might traditionally think, and may have to be applied differently in different situations. I have often told stories about my former alcoholic ex-boyfriend who had kids. I realize this is just my opinion, but to show him the love of God would have meant cutting him off of all finances, putting him in rehab and throwing away the key, and only allowing his kids supervised visitations in which they would have had to be taken to see him at the center.

The only reason he was able to keep his children was because of everything I was doing for them (that's not bragging--that's an example of me making poor decisions to enable someone with an emotional black hole.) I agonized over leaving because of the kids. But I also knew a relative would be forced to step up and help, and that the kids would still be safe and given a loving home.

This boyfriend was becoming more forceful and verging on physical abuse, and it was angering me to the point of knowing it was only a matter of time before I would start to fight back, because I'm not very good at being a victim. None of the possible outcomes could have been positive, so I finally decided to leave.

He lost custody of his children only a few months after I left. Now some would say I was heartless. But if I had felt that the kids were going to be lost in the court system, I would have gathered all the evidence (even 4 years after we broke up, I still kept finding empty booze bottles hidden around my yard) and petitioned the court to adopt them myself. But relatives who truly loved the kids wound up getting them in the end.

I agonized over that situation like no one's business. The little one especially was like my own baby. But in the end (for personal reasons I won't state on the forum), I had to cut all ties. I would have loved to have been able to keep a relationship with the kids, but as it was, I came close to getting a restraining order against their father, and any contact had to be severed. Fortunately, the kids were very young, and to this day, I pray that they don't remember me so that they don't think I just abandoned them with no explanation. They would be grown adults today.

This is just one of several situations in my life that were very difficult for me because I was trying to find the balance between showing the love of God, and instead, reinforcing and enabling codependent, addictive behaviors.

Sometimes, showing the love of God also means that you have to LEAVE them to God.

For instance, Galatea, as a teacher, I know that by law you must be required to report any suspicions of abuse, correct?

If you have a child who is being abused in any way at home, it's very possible that the only solution is to remove the child from the home and cut off all ties with the abusers. It's not a a particularly happy ending for the people involved, but it may very well be the only choice. The child certainly might not see being ripped away from their family as "the love of God", but in some cases, what other options are there, especially if the abuser does not or will not change?



P.S. In my original thread, I wrote that there was going to be a Part 2.

I intended that second thread to be: "The Emotional Black Hole -- When Nothing EVERYONE ELSE Does Is Enough."

In other words, it was going to be a reflection of self, and how we ourselves handle our own emotional black holes. I maybe not post it now, seeing as a few people already stated their thoughts in the original thread, and will probably post more about that topic here, voiding out any need for me to write my planned second thread.

However, out of respect for your thread, I won't post my second thread (if I even decide to post it at all now) until people have had the chance to thoroughly read and reply to yours first.

The thread about emotional black holes is not the only one I was thinking about in regards to people cutting others out of their lives. When I first joined in November, I remember a thread about New Year's Resolutions and a former user posting his resolution was to get rid of toxic people. It kind of shocked me as such an attitude does not seem Christian. I am not sure how I would handle a loved one with a substance abuse problem. My grandfather routinely gave money to his nephews (which was most assuredly used for drugs) when I was growing up. I can remember them sometimes knocking on the door in the middle of the night to ask for money. My grandmother was angry with my grandfather for enabling them- but he felt he could show them Christian love by giving them money which they said they needed for their kids.

Was it right? Was it wrong? I don't know. I know that some of his nephews are now saved and some are not and still using. One is in prison. I honestly could not tell who is right in this scenario.

Physical danger is a different proposition, altogether.

Yes, if a child is abused, the child most certainly needs to be taken away- but the thing I have seen, time after time, no matter how heinous the abuse is there is still a desire in the child to reconcile with the parent. It is rather a startling thing to witness. I worked in a mental hospital, and was amazed at the forgiveness the children had toward their parents who had done unspeakable things to them. It was a humbling experience for me.

I am referring to people who are simply emotionally draining. Not people who are in danger or putting others in danger. For instance, about people who are never happy or always complaining, or never satisfied, or nothing you do is good enogh for them. Or the clinging vines who latch on and seem to sap the life right out of you due to clinginess.

Everything can be forgiven.

 

[ChandlerFan]

^I do agree that everything can be forgiven (easier said than done however), but one important thing to remember is that forgiveness does not always mean trusting or having relationship with that person again. Really it all depends on if real repentance/change has taken place in the life/heart of the perpetrator, and even then the person who was victimized is not under any obligation (even biblically) to enter back into relationship with them.

 

[Galatea]

The Bible certainly does show examples of avoiding some people, after a point. "Do not throw pearls before swine".
Also Abraham and... someone I forget, had travelled together and bickered frequently during that time. Once they arrived at their destination they were aware of their inability to get along and both chose to part ways and split the land, settling in different areas away from each other.

This idea that if we don't push ourselves till we are drained brings up other ideas, such as how some used to flog their own bodies in an attempt to drive out sin (suffering equals holiness). Or people that believe poverty is a requirement for holy living. None of these teachings, including what you suggest, are actually biblical, but rather concepts that are manmade that we believe make us more spiritual.
But these are works based concepts, not spiritual. Not biblical.
Jesus himself often, while battling the Pharisees, using different wording, essentially called them toxic for, among other things, the negative influence they were in so many people's lives. They were a drain.
We see in the bible instances of God abandoning entire cities. God doesn't get drained. He does require is to be wise, though. Wisdom suggests knowing when to stay and when to leave.
Read Matthew 23.

Actually what this makes me think of is a perfectionist. This "if I can't do it perfectly then I shouldn't do it at all" sort of thinking. I should know, I suffer from think too and it holds me back, often. Ironically this is a very self centered motive.

Also we can't deny that God commanded rest. He did not, however, say that that rest was only for those that lived up to a certain standard of daily self sacrifice in order to earn it.

I will agree with you that, often times, people do not push themselves enough when it comes to other people. But i would also see your view as the opposite end of the spectrum, and therefore unbalanced.

Granted I don't know you, really, but from what little I've observed you have not come across as draining.
But when you consider things such as extrovert and introvert personalities, it is telling. Extroverts are, in a sense, vampire. They feed off of interactions with others. Not maliciously, but rather as part of their makeup.
Introverts, on the other hand, are givers by nature. For us being social is always draining.
Different people have different roles and different needs to fulfill those roles. Many in the church are unaware of this and want to jump all people into the same role, creating a body full of hands, but no feet, for example.
This belief you hold may be a wrong perception that is more damaging than good, or it may be something necessary for your role. I would encourage you to spend some time in prayer seeking the answer. If you're wrong, you don't know what damage you could be doing, if it is what you should be doing, then you have nothing to lose by making sure.
But if it is for your role, keep in mind we are all called to be different for our place in the body. So what is expected of you may not be expected of others.
I will agree, however, that we all have work to do on ourselves. Myself included, probably twice, haha.

The pharisee of pharisees was converted and became the Apostle Paul. No one is so low where God can not reach him. I just simply think people should not cut people off because they are draining or toxic or whatever. I do not think it is harmful to say we should endure.

Matthew 5:43-48

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in Heaven: for He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust.

For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even the publicans do the same?

And if you salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? Do not even the publicans so?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Fathet which is in Heaven is perfect."

I think perfect as in complete, here- not just loving the easy to love people, but the difficult to love people as well.

 

[Galatea]

Many are judged for the outside, and many respond sometimes indefinitely based on that one layer of the onion. But inside everyone and beyond the walls, is a beautiful human being. I feel sorry for those labelled as such because of how a group have defined them. I know first hand because my father is one of those emotional black holes. Having dealt with his own fathers suicide, after his father lost his wife to MS (so losing both parents within a short time), having lost his wife, my mother who was only 42 to multiple forms of cancer.

But then on top of that, and because of this hardened outer layer which comes across somewhat as pretty cold to his family, all of my sisters have cut him off to 'preserve themselves' so they say. But I have always been there for him. He is my father, and I've probably had most of the attacks to be honest. Maybe I'm a man and I can take it, but, your parent is your parent no matter what.

I see more God in him, than I do my sisters, who are living their own dreams by denying God and denying our father. So the question is who is the real monster, those who in their pain say things the wrong way, maybe have an anger issue, maybe do stupid things without thinking about consequence, or those who cut people off 'like it is nothing to do such a thing'.

We live in a world where people attract to positivity or negativity. And quite often what I observe is positive people try to preserve themselves by excluding those that they deem as negative. This is very much a new-age concept, maybe a pagan concept. It is not a Christian concept. You are supposed to put yourself in any position, rather than trying to stop your golden throne of self getting tarnished. After all, was Jesus so picky? He was more picky about this type of arrogance, and self-righteousness, than he was about hanging with criminals and low lives, even those who would undo him.

You stated my case much better than I could, thank you.

 

[Lynx]

Thank you Galatea for clarifying what you meant. The way the OP was phrased, I thought you were referring directly to a recent thread about people who really are emotional black holes. There are some people who call it quits too soon and declare someone to have a toxic personality when they could try harder to help.

But you have to admit, there are some people that the best thing you can do is just wash your hands of the whole mess and let them find a different victim. Sometimes it requires prayer to determine which course is best.

Kim,

I agree with you to a point, however your definition of abuse or toxic behavior is vastly different than what other people would. I don't mean to cause problems here, but so many people walk away from one little scuffle with someone when it was only a one time thing. On that note God uses us when we are at our most unlovable and when we are broken because he uses our brokenness to make us better and stronger. This independence thing is sickening because God needs us to call on him and show humility when we can't handle a situation on our own and how can we do that if we turn our back on our brothers and sisters in Christ?. For example, I have a friend who was always coming to me because her home life was horrible. Every day she would tell me what her boyfriend did to her and what a horrible person she was for moving in with him. Truthfully, it was exhausting doing this daily but I knew that God placed her in my path for a reason and kept asking God for strength in ministering to her. I invited her to come to church with me and she accepted Christ and left her boyfriend. Now, if I would have ended that friendship I wouldn't be guaranteed she would have gotten saved. I loved on her when no one else would, that is the epitome of Christ and I take pride in that. We need to be more like Christ. Now, you can always give yourself some distance from these people, but don't close them off

Hmm... renewed_hope, I'm guessing you don't know seoulsearch very well. She's not the kind to give up on a hurting person that easy. If anything, she probably hangs on far too long, until even SHE has to admit there is no benefit in remaining.

I can only speak from my own perspective but I know that for me, God seems to send me people who are wanting to talk about their abusive pasts/situations by the truckloads. This is one of the reasons why I'd wanted to be a psychologist at some point.

Or a bartender. Lots of people need somebody to talk to after they've had a few drinks. Might as well be somebody who just might be able to help them.

Sorry, couldn't pass it up.

 

[mj007]

You're welcome. I'm very passionate about everyone being on the same level, spiritual equality so to say. The world (and with that science and psychology) likes to categorize people, and then because these ideas are generalised, people do it to each other too. I guess it is easy to view the symptoms or effects and not the person, as a scientist or psychologist does, but rarely are observers of the visible, able to categorise or comprehend the invisible, which as Christians we should pay more attention to.

I once made the mistake of placing myself in a given category or spectrum. I've never really understood why I speak the way I do, or my reactions, or my perceptions. All I know is that they are pretty different to all the people around me. So while I see the general communicative ability of people to be normal I see myself then as abnormal.

Anyway I said to my family, maybe I have a level of high-functioning autism. Of all types of category, I seemed to fit into this the most, the positives and negatives. However what happened then is my family were noticing this and noticing that, which 'confirmed' it for them in a way. It is then that I understood how categorizing anyone, actually doesn't help anything, it somewhat condemns them. It is like being labelled crazy, and then anything you say must be a part of that craziness.

God doesn't label anyone and neither should we. He sees 'where we are' and waits for us to come back to him if it's not a good place, but he doesn't define us as a being set in stone. It is people that do this to each other, and even have the audacity to say God is on the side of their thinking [God thinks like me] (in their own image?) Likewise to God, we should be the same, and how if we see someone as problematic, maybe it is also us that need to open our eyes a little wider, not just those whom we are saying have their eyes closed. Often we are seeing a mirror of our own problem in others. That is why those who are closest to God, so full of joy and peace and love for others, often see that in even the most problematic, rather than the problem.

You stated my case much better than I could, thank you.

 

[Galatea]

Thank you Galatea for clarifying what you meant. The way the OP was phrased, I thought you were referring directly to a recent thread about people who really are emotional black holes. There are some people who call it quits too soon and declare someone to have a toxic personality when they could try harder to help.

But you have to admit, there are some people that the best thing you can do is just wash your hands of the whole mess and let them find a different victim. Sometimes it requires prayer to determine which course is best.


Hmm... renewed_hope, I'm guessing you don't know seoulsearch very well. She's not the kind to give up on a hurting person that easy. If anything, she probably hangs on far too long, until even SHE has to admit there is no benefit in remaining.


Or a bartender. Lots of people need somebody to talk to after they've had a few drinks. Might as well be somebody who just might be able to help them.

Sorry, couldn't pass it up.

No, my point is we ought not to call it quits and withhold from giving people the emotional support they need. I don't know if you ever heard about Richard Marx and his minstry to delinquent youths. Marx was severely physically, emotionally, and sexually abused by one of his stepfathers. He later got saved and was called by a mutual acquaintance to let him know his stepfather was dying. Marx went to see him, forgave him, and witnessed to him. He told him he loved him. Marx suffered PTSD because of this man, yet was willing to possibly be emotionally traumatized and victimized again in order to witness to him and tell him he was loved, and call him "Dad".

That's what I mean.

 

[Galatea]

You're welcome. I'm very passionate about everyone being on the same level, spiritual equality so to say. The world (and with that science and psychology) likes to categorize people, and then because these ideas are generalised, people do it to each other too. I guess it is easy to view the symptoms or effects and not the person, as a scientist or psychologist does, but rarely are observers of the visible, able to categorise or comprehend the invisible, which as Christians we should pay more attention to.

I once made the mistake of placing myself in a given category or spectrum. I've never really understood why I speak the way I do, or my reactions, or my perceptions. All I know is that they are pretty different to all the people around me. So while I see the general communicative ability of people to be normal I see myself then as abnormal.

Anyway I said to my family, maybe I have a level of high-functioning autism. Of all types of category, I seemed to fit into this the most, the positives and negatives. However what happened then is my family were noticing this and noticing that, which 'confirmed' it for them in a way. It is then that I understood how categorizing anyone, actually doesn't help anything, it somewhat condemns them. It is like being labelled crazy, and then anything you say must be a part of that craziness.

God doesn't label anyone and neither should we. He sees 'where we are' and waits for us to come back to him if it's not a good place, but he doesn't define us as a being set in stone. It is people that do this to each other, and even have the audacity to say God is on the side of their thinking [God thinks like me] (in their own image?) Likewise to God, we should be the same, and how if we see someone as problematic, maybe it is also us that need to open our eyes a little wider, not just those whom we are saying have their eyes closed. Often we are seeing a mirror of our own problem in others. That is why those who are closest to God, so full of joy and peace and love for others, often see that in even the most problematic, rather than the problem.

I would like to give you another rep, but cannot. I think you have expressed it beautifully. God sees us where we are and that is not a fixed point. Labels can become a self fulfilling prophecy. I've seen that happen in my profession. A child labeled a troublemaker assumes "this must be just who I am" and manifests that behavior.

Your post makes me think of that hymn "Just as I am, without one plea." "Just as I am, thou will receive."

Thanks again very much for both your posts which are well written and really expressed what I was trying to (very clumsily) say.

 

[GOP]

Ever since I joined CC, I have noticed a disturbing philosophy on the Singles Forum. I have long wanted to make a thread about it, but did not want to be unpopular, or alienate people, etc.

I have alienated quite a few people here, so I suppose I can now say what is on my heart without fear. A few more people blocking me will be par for the course at this point, lol.

I am disturbed by this philosophy of calling people "toxic, emotional black holes, parasites, cancers, etc." I am disturbed when I read about people cutting other people out of their lives. This is unChristian, and I don't think is biblical at all. It is unloving. Perhaps I feel this keenly because I am a vampire myself and tend to be a drain, lol.

We are all toxic in some respect, but God has told us to love others as we would love ourselves. How many people here would feel loved if a friend cut you out of his life because you were an "emotional drain"?

Love endureth all things. Love never faileth- even when a person is being a drain.

Not to commend myself, but if I come home from working and do not feel emotionally drained, I know I did not do a good job that day. I was not poured out for my kids. I was selfish. If I am emotionally exhausted, I know I was poured out that day and did not wall myself up and did not ignore their emotional needs.

Yesterday, I was in the library with students playing a board game. My turn supervising the students was over, and I wanted to go outside to look at the eclipse. This was my selfish desire. But we were in the middle of a board game and I could not leave them because I know Jesus would not leave them and would put their needs over His own. I stayed the extra hour and let God show His love through me. Not bragging- every bone and fiber in me wanted to escape to my classroom and use the hour to grade papers or surf the net and I most definitely wanted to see the eclipse.

But I let God pour me out. Anyway, if you come in contact with a human parasite- a vampire like myself, there could be worse things than being emotionally drained. You could be unneeded. At least a vampire needs you.

Peace be with you my dear lovely sister in JESUS' NAME.
I greet you with a HOLY KISS.
Even though you have written a good post but there is something there which is not right and which I don't like.
I don't like when you called yourself a vampire. This is wrong to me because you are a Child of GOD and GOD ALMIGHTY our LOVELY FATHER has not called you so. Please don't called yourself a vampire but called yourself what GOD has called you. HE called you Precious, Glorious, Blessed, Beautiful, Wonderful, Wise, Lovely, Powerful, Righteous, Excellent, Rich, Tough, Bold and HIS Image. That's who you are my dear lovely sister.

If you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, GOD never called any of HIS Children a vampire. So, you are not a vampire. Please don't called your such.
JESUS CHRIST our LORD said, we should learn from HIM. And the HOLY SPIRIT says, "As JESUS is, so are we in this world (1John 4:17). We need to speak and talk like JESUS CHRIST our LORD; and we need to always describe ourselves as HE described HIMSELF when he was here on earth in the flesh. Finally, we need describe ourselves only with what the WORD OF GOD says.

We are HIS CHILDREN.
I love you my dear lovely sister. Please don't called yourself that name anymore.
JESUS IS LORD.
BLESSED BE GOD.
Amen!

 

[Galatea]

Peace be with you my dear lovely sister in JESUS' NAME.
I greet you with a HOLY KISS.
Even though you have written a good post but there is something there which is not right and which I don't like.
I don't like when you called yourself a vampire. This is wrong to me because you are a Child of GOD and GOD ALMIGHTY our LOVELY FATHER has not called you so. Please don't called yourself a vampire but called yourself what GOD has called you. HE called you Precious, Glorious, Blessed, Beautiful, Wonderful, Wise, Lovely, Powerful, Righteous, Excellent, Rich, Tough, Bold and HIS Image. That's who you are my dear lovely sister.

If you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, GOD never called any of HIS Children a vampire. So, you are not a vampire. Please don't called your such.
JESUS CHRIST our LORD said, we should learn from HIM. And the HOLY SPIRIT says, "As JESUS is, so are we in this world (1John 4:17). We need to speak and talk like JESUS CHRIST our LORD; and we need to always describe ourselves as HE described HIMSELF when he was here on earth in the flesh. Finally, we need describe ourselves only with what the WORD OF GOD says.

We are HIS CHILDREN.
I love you my dear lovely sister. Please don't called yourself that name anymore.
JESUS IS LORD.
BLESSED BE GOD.
Amen!

Thank you for your post, it is very beautiful of you to say so to me. Alright, I'll stop calling myself a vampire- although I have no reflection and garlic is my nemesis.

God bless you as well, I have appreciated reading your encouraging posts on threads, although I have not always replied. Thank you for always being very kind.

I love you, as well.

 

[Lynx]

No, my point is we ought not to call it quits and withhold from giving people the emotional support they need.

Let me make sure I perfectly comprehend your meaning. You mean no matter how draining a person is, no matter how enabling your actions are, no matter how much God says you should leave that person behind, you are supposed to never turn down anybody who keeps asking you for help with things they could be doing for themselves? As in, never?

 

[GOP]

Thank you for your post, it is very beautiful of you to say so to me. Alright, I'll stop calling myself a vampire- although I have no reflection and garlic is my nemesis.

God bless you as well, I have appreciated reading your encouraging posts on threads, although I have not always replied. Thank you for always being very kind.

I love you, as well.

You are highly welcome my dear lovely sister.
I'm happy for your response.
Thank you too.

 

[Gaariah]

It is because they have their little clique mentality. They are not much different than their fathers whom killed all the prophets and stoned Stephen, and stoned Paul, and beat Peter and John, and crucified our Lord Jesus. Consider, if their fathers accused and thrust out blessed King David, and if their fathers slandered all manner of things upon Lord Jesus and did not give him fair trial, and if they ultimately crucified our Lord Jesus; how little of a thing is it in their eyes then to call after us all manner of things, and to thrust us out and to do us evilly?

Yea it is nothing in the sight of the pastor whom thinks he is saved by his broad phylactery to call his brother toxic or trolls, yea this is nothing to them. Oh it is nothing to the evil counsellor to smite the same fool whom shewed him great kindness in his time of travail, behold how that fool is indeed a fool for he thought surely the counsellor will treat me and the others well for my treating him well rather than condemning him for being the adulterer that he is, but nay oh fool he smote you when he had the chance without a mercy and slandered thee and cast thee as a woman beater. And it is nothing to them to set at nought a man whom once treasured them, and if that were not enough to then snipe at him daily provoking him, and then when he enquires why he is treated like filth for them to raise false report upon him to see him cast out. And it is nothing for their rulers to openly admit to their hypocrisy constantly saying, if I did justice and punished so-and-so I would have to do punish all, wherefore he admits plainly he deals in double-standards and that he neglects not only to do justice but to also neglect mercy impartially. I say to you it is nothing for these to betray even their own friends of many years, no, it is nothing to them I tell you.

Moreover behold even how they attempt to justify themselves and how they have hated their brethren and done evilly against them to thrust them out like Saul did to David thrusting him out thereby telling him to follow other gods, which are not gods at all. Therefore the rebuke of the Lord is come down upon them and they will be angered and make their excuses and mockery all the more when they ought earnestly entreat for the return of their brethren whom they have thrust out with all ungodliness. And behold as the Lord God liveth this testimony is truth for I have felt it myself, even at many of their hands that are here, and seen it with my own eyes, and not just I be witness to it, but many, and the Lord Jesus also bear witness against this nest of hornets. Praise the Lord God whom lives forever for he sees it, and he hears the prayers and comforts the hearts of all whom these have all without a shame persecuted, therefore he has sent many prophets and many apostles and many witnesses to cry against them and to test out them and to serve as examples to their shame continually. But to those whom will bear this in mind with a heart of wisdom and a sincere wish to be forgiven of his brethren and will diligently seek to restore their brethren and will diligently talk with their brother face to face rather than behind his back to fix out that which is wrong, truly that good brother shall forgive thee as the Lord Jesus commands. Praise the Lord God and praise his Son Jesus Christ forever!

So it is written truly of them and so it is what we have, to our shame, come to expect of them my Lord, I lay myself down at thy truth, blessed is he that come in the name of the Lord God whom lives forever:

Matthew 23:23-39

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[Lynx]

Gaariah: Sounds like Jesus was calling these Pharisees toxic personalities.

 

[zeroturbulence]

[video=youtube;QWfZ5SZZ4xE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWfZ5SZZ4xE[/video]

 

[Lynx]

Let me make sure I perfectly comprehend your meaning. You mean no matter how draining a person is, no matter how enabling your actions are, no matter how much God says you should leave that person behind, you are supposed to never turn down anybody who keeps asking you for help with things they could be doing for themselves? As in, never?

On second thought, that was too long-winded. Lemme rephrase that.

If I understand correctly, Galatea, you are saying there is no single case where leaving a chronically needy person is a good thing?

 

[laura_charlotte]

Kim,

I agree with you to a point, however your definition of abuse or toxic behavior is vastly different than what other people would. I don't mean to cause problems here, but so many people walk away from one little scuffle with someone when it was only a one time thing. On that note God uses us when we are at our most unlovable and when we are broken because he uses our brokenness to make us better and stronger. This independence thing is sickening because God needs us to call on him and show humility when we can't handle a situation on our own and how can we do that if we turn our back on our brothers and sisters in Christ?. For example, I have a friend who was always coming to me because her home life was horrible. Every day she would tell me what her boyfriend did to her and what a horrible person she was for moving in with him. Truthfully, it was exhausting doing this daily but I knew that God placed her in my path for a reason and kept asking God for strength in ministering to her. I invited her to come to church with me and she accepted Christ and left her boyfriend. Now, if I would have ended that friendship I wouldn't be guaranteed she would have gotten saved. I loved on her when no one else would, that is the epitome of Christ and I take pride in that. We need to be more like Christ. Now, you can always give yourself some distance from these people, but don't close them off

Absolutely fantastic response! This outlines so many issues, awesome stuff.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Our God is a God of second chances but He also disciplines. We should also give plenty of chances but we should also teach people to treat us properly. It's all about balance. Too much of something is bad.

 

[laura_charlotte]

Really encouraging!

Many are judged for the outside, and many respond sometimes indefinitely based on that one layer of the onion. But inside everyone and beyond the walls, is a beautiful human being. I feel sorry for those labelled as such because of how a group have defined them. I know first hand because my father is one of those emotional black holes. Having dealt with his own fathers suicide, after his father lost his wife to MS (so losing both parents within a short time), having lost his wife, my mother who was only 42 to multiple forms of cancer.

But then on top of that, and because of this hardened outer layer which comes across somewhat as pretty cold to his family, all of my sisters have cut him off to 'preserve themselves' so they say. But I have always been there for him. He is my father, and I've probably had most of the attacks to be honest. Maybe I'm a man and I can take it, but, your parent is your parent no matter what.

I see more God in him, than I do my sisters, who are living their own dreams by denying God and denying our father. So the question is who is the real monster, those who in their pain say things the wrong way, maybe have an anger issue, maybe do stupid things without thinking about consequence, or those who cut people off 'like it is nothing to do such a thing'.

We live in a world where people attract to positivity or negativity. And quite often what I observe is positive people try to preserve themselves by excluding those that they deem as negative. This is very much a new-age concept, maybe a pagan concept. It is not a Christian concept. You are supposed to put yourself in any position, rather than trying to stop your golden throne of self getting tarnished. After all, was Jesus so picky? He was more picky about this type of arrogance, and self-righteousness, than he was about hanging with criminals and low lives, even those who would undo him.

 

[Oncefallen]

It is because they have their little clique mentality. They are not much different than their fathers whom killed all the prophets and stoned Stephen, and stoned Paul, and beat Peter and John, and crucified our Lord Jesus. Consider, if their fathers accused and thrust out blessed King David, and if their fathers slandered all manner of things upon Lord Jesus and did not give him fair trial, and if they ultimately crucified our Lord Jesus; how little of a thing is it in their eyes then to call after us all manner of things, and to thrust us out and to do us evilly?

To the user who reported this post..............good instinct.

Gaariah (AKA Chesediel, Chokmahiel, Eloseus, Naboth, Rachmiel, ShepherdSheep, Urijah, GodisSalvation)