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For some reason I keep thinking of a song...
"Tell me lies / Tell me sweet little lies"
As for whether it is sometimes okay or even right to lie, this is one of those topics where discussion never accomplishes anything. Nobody ever changes his mind on this topic.
"Tell me lies / Tell me sweet little lies"
As for whether it is sometimes okay or even right to lie, this is one of those topics where discussion never accomplishes anything. Nobody ever changes his mind on this topic.
T
And in this imperfect world, I'm not sure we always have a good choice. There seem to be times when people are caught between two sins. I have heard it put forward before that if you lie to save someones life the lie is not counted as sin, and I would have to disagree. That is where God's grace comes in. We are so weak that we can't even keep from sinning. Even the GOOD things we do (saving the life) are tainted with sin (lying).
Hi Seoul,
I don't know if there's an example or not. I'll put my thinking cap on. Maybe someone else will think of someone in the scriptures.
But we don't find God telling anyone to lie.
Samuel didn't lie. He did sacrifice. Holding back information isn't lying and in the text it doesn't show us an interaction of Samuel speaking with Saul so it seems it really wasn't an issue. It was a fear of Samuel's, but what he feared didn't happen.
I don't know if there's an example or not. I'll put my thinking cap on.
Maybe someone else will think of someone in the scriptures. But we don't find God telling anyone to lie.
Samuel didn't lie. He did sacrifice. Holding back information isn't lying and in the text it doesn't show us an interaction of Samuel speaking with Saul so it seems it really wasn't an issue. It was a fear of Samuel's, but what he feared didn't happen.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for you
so I'm definitely not trying to argue or be contentious at all, but your post got me thinking about "lies of omission", and I just wanted to share my thoughts. I am certainly not saying that Samuel sinned by saying what God told him to say.
But, I was thinking about the times in our own lives when we might be dealing with someone who is "holding back information."
For instance, let's say I was married, and my husband said he was going to his hometown to visit his family (and I wasn't able to go.) Peachy keen, right? I should be wishing him a great time with his family, no?
BUT, what if he fails to tell me that he also plans to have lunch with his ex-girlfriend while he's there... Is it a lie?
Some would say no--he's just holding back a little information. And so maybe they do have lunch, and maybe it's all innocent.
But would failing to tell me about it be acceptable, or somehow justified? Some people might not have a problem with it, but I know I would (even if it did stay withing boundaries, I'd be upset that he "failed" to be honest with me about this vital piece of information.) Maybe he'd tell me that he didn't want to upset me or have me "freak out" over "nothing."
Sorry, but I call horse feathers on that one.
I might not know specifically what to call it... But I know that I, for one, would call it "wrong".
But maybe that's just me.
U
For some reason I keep thinking of a song...
"Tell me lies / Tell me sweet little lies"
As for whether it is sometimes okay or even right to lie, this is one of those topics where discussion never accomplishes anything. Nobody ever changes his mind on this topic.
"Tell me lies / Tell me sweet little lies"
As for whether it is sometimes okay or even right to lie, this is one of those topics where discussion never accomplishes anything. Nobody ever changes his mind on this topic.
Naturally it happens, but not my motive, so I stick by the thread.
Hi Rose!
I have nothing but the utmost respect for you so I'm definitely not trying to argue or be contentious at all, but your post got me thinking about "lies of omission", and I just wanted to share my thoughts.
I am certainly not saying that Samuel sinned by saying what God told him to say.
But, I was thinking about the times in our own lives when we might be dealing with someone who is "holding back information."
For instance, let's say I was married, and my husband said he was going to his hometown to visit his family (and I wasn't able to go.) Peachy keen, right? I should be wishing him a great time with his family, no?
BUT, what if he fails to tell me that he also plans to have lunch with his ex-girlfriend while he's there... Is it a lie?
Some would say no--he's just holding back a little information. And so maybe they do have lunch, and maybe it's all innocent.
But would failing to tell me about it be acceptable, or somehow justified? Some people might not have a problem with it, but I know I would (even if it did stay withing boundaries, I'd be upset that he "failed" to be honest with me about this vital piece of information.) Maybe he'd tell me that he didn't want to upset me or have me "freak out" over "nothing."
Sorry, but I call horse feathers on that one.
I might not know specifically what to call it... But I know that I, for one, would call it "wrong".
But maybe that's just me.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for you
so I'm definitely not trying to argue or be contentious at all, but your post got me thinking about "lies of omission", and I just wanted to share my thoughts. I am certainly not saying that Samuel sinned by saying what God told him to say.
But, I was thinking about the times in our own lives when we might be dealing with someone who is "holding back information."
For instance, let's say I was married, and my husband said he was going to his hometown to visit his family (and I wasn't able to go.) Peachy keen, right? I should be wishing him a great time with his family, no?
BUT, what if he fails to tell me that he also plans to have lunch with his ex-girlfriend while he's there... Is it a lie?
Some would say no--he's just holding back a little information. And so maybe they do have lunch, and maybe it's all innocent.
But would failing to tell me about it be acceptable, or somehow justified? Some people might not have a problem with it, but I know I would (even if it did stay withing boundaries, I'd be upset that he "failed" to be honest with me about this vital piece of information.) Maybe he'd tell me that he didn't want to upset me or have me "freak out" over "nothing."
Sorry, but I call horse feathers on that one.
I might not know specifically what to call it... But I know that I, for one, would call it "wrong".
But maybe that's just me.
Thanks!
And no worries, I'm not taking it that way at all. I love discussions no matter what the topic is. And I love them even more when we can do it in love and respect. You are a very kind and loving person. I would always welcome your input
And if we don't agree as we finish the discussion, all is well. I would never want someone to change their thinking because of something I say. It needs to be the Holy Spirit Who speaks to them through something said, and that way the truth is sealed within their soul and then their truth becomes God's truth.
I try to stay open and teachable. I take what's said to the Lord and go through my mind's database of scriptures and teachings stored to find something that addresses the topic at hand.
There are times that it may be weeks that I ponder something that's been said here on CC. I do learn and there are times I do change my thinking on some of the topics here. I never think it's a waste of time to talk about the things of the Lord. It can strengthen what we know to be true or it can bring clarity to what we thought we knew.
This topic on lying allowed the Lord to shine His light into my soul. I thought of the times that I have lied and no matter what reason I did it, it was a sin. I see where there are times that I have been deceptive or lied to save a person from being hurt.
As Tinuviel mentioned in her post, those times we mess up and tell a lie, God's grace cleanses us when we confess our sins to Him.
And I do understand what you're saying. There is a relationship between the husband and wife where the two become one flesh and there are things that should be talked about to avoid any appearance of wrong doing or evil intentions. So yes, he should have told you and yes he was deceptive and needed to repent and ask for forgiveness.
When I say holding information back, I just mean that not everyone needs to know about every detail of our lives. There are things we can keep personal to ourselves and to God.
I use to think that when I couldn't join in on a walk or go to lunch with the girls that I had to tell my friends why. And it's in the telling why that I found myself lying at times because I didn't want to hurt their feelings.
At times I just don't feel like going or maybe I'm having a bad pain day or whatever. But the times I just don't want to, do I have to tell them why. Do they need to know my thoughts, or can they be mine alone?
There may be a friend I don't particularly get along with. Or it could be that maybe my stomach is upset and I don't want a long list of what I need to do or take to get rid of the stomach ache. My patience might be wearing thin that day and so it's not a good idea to be around a contentious person. We could go through many scenarios and find that at times we should speak up and other times we need to stay tight-lipped.
I'm glad that Ugly brought this topic up because I've been thinking about lying ever since to see where this fits into this is my walk with the Lord.
I think of all the times when I use to be a yes person. Someone wanted something done, I wouldn't say no and would do it. Through teaching, I eventually learned to say no and I also learned that I didn't have to tell them why. My why I said no might have hurt their feelings. So silence in this case is good.
Or the why might be a lie to not hurt their feelings. So I've learned to not say why I can't go and do something. It has become very freeing.
Here's a real-life scenario. I have a friend who is of another denomination that I believe. She and I rub one another wrong. I've asked her to avoid certain topics and discuss those things we can agree on. But she can't or won't do it.
So do I want to be with this person a lot. No I don't. So when an opportunity comes along to be with her I avoid it for the most part. I love texting because you don't have to give a reason why when you say, "sorry, not today."
If someone asks you why you won't be there is the tricky part. When we say it's to save their feelings, that's a good motivation, but the lying part is against God. There are ways to tell the truth without hurting feelings.
For instance if someone is trying on a top or a piece of clothing and asks me if I like it, I turn it around and ask them if they like it or what do they think about the top and that is my honest answer. It doesn't matter if I like it because it won't be my top.
So let's say they asked me again if I like it. In the past I have said that I liked it, but not for me. Either it wasn't my style or a color I liked or whatever.
Here's the hard part. She questions if I think it looks good on her. And what if I think it doesn't look good on her because it's too bulky or it's too tight or maybe I don't think the color looks good on her. I would give her an answer because she really wants to know. I might offer her another top that I think looks better on her. But I would tell her in the end that it's just my opinion and the opinion that really matters is hers because she will be the one who will wear the top.
There really are ways to say things that won't be hurtful when love is a part of the equation. But lets say we ended up hurting them without intending to. We can always let them know we're sorry and go the extra mile to mend the relationship.
I guess the bottom line is that we all need to realize that we are commanded to not lie. So if God commands us not to and we end up lying, we can be assured it's a sin.
If we mislead, flat out lied, deceived, etc they are all sinful. And we won't get relief from a technicality, God sees our heart. He sees and knows all. We serve a loving, kind and forgiving Father. If we confess our sins, we'll receive God's cleansing Who is full of grace and mercy.
Hi Prov,
The way I look at questions like that is that there is always hope. We serve a God who heals and performs miracles. He's all knowing and we're not.
So I give them hope and encourage them to believe the impossible without telling them that they'll make it or they won't. Because we really don't have that information. Only God knows.
I have a friend with cancer; stage 4 breast cancer. She will probably die if God doesn't intervene. In fact she's having tests done today to see if the cancer is spreading. Please pray for her if you think of her. Her name is Nancy.
The doctors have given her a time frame. She's surpassed it by almost a year. \o/ We're always encouraging her in the Lord. We don't know God's will so even though something is classified as terminal, the doctors aren't God and don't know when the person will die. Only God knows that......even the death of sparrows.
She has spoken of the way she might die. And we've discussed that so that she is prepared with options as those last days come.
I always think honesty is best especially in this case. Paul said for me to live is Christ and to die is gain.......think that through. To die is gain. Why is death gain?
We look at death the opposite way we should. Where oh death is thy sting? Jesus conquered death, so we really aren't dying. We're passing from life on earth to life in heaven.
We will miss the one who dies and they will miss us, but what greater place could there be, but heaven and be face to face with their Savior. They're going on a permanent vacation and we'll join them soon.
And there's no better place to be than in the presence of God. It's one of those ways we need our minds transformed.....we're in the process of having our minds renewed to have the mind of Christ.
And I want to be like Paul who said for him to live is Christ and to die is gain. And when he said that he was imprisoned with a prison guard shackled to him. He could be sentenced for death at any moment. And guess what he was doing. He was rejoicing and telling the Philippians to live a life rejoicing no matter what circumstances they were in.
He was sharing the gospel with the other prisoners and the guards and Paul rejoiced that many were being saved. That was life to him.......he lived Christ.
It's all in how we look at it and we need to see this world with the eyes of Jesus instead of the eyes of the world. We're dying daily as we put off the old man and put on the new. Putting off lying is a part of the process to become more like Jesus and His ways, to live holy and righteous before God and before others so that they'll see Jesus.
The way I look at questions like that is that there is always hope. We serve a God who heals and performs miracles. He's all knowing and we're not.
So I give them hope and encourage them to believe the impossible without telling them that they'll make it or they won't. Because we really don't have that information. Only God knows.
I have a friend with cancer; stage 4 breast cancer. She will probably die if God doesn't intervene. In fact she's having tests done today to see if the cancer is spreading. Please pray for her if you think of her. Her name is Nancy.
The doctors have given her a time frame. She's surpassed it by almost a year. \o/ We're always encouraging her in the Lord. We don't know God's will so even though something is classified as terminal, the doctors aren't God and don't know when the person will die. Only God knows that......even the death of sparrows.
She has spoken of the way she might die. And we've discussed that so that she is prepared with options as those last days come.
I always think honesty is best especially in this case. Paul said for me to live is Christ and to die is gain.......think that through. To die is gain. Why is death gain?
We look at death the opposite way we should. Where oh death is thy sting? Jesus conquered death, so we really aren't dying. We're passing from life on earth to life in heaven.
We will miss the one who dies and they will miss us, but what greater place could there be, but heaven and be face to face with their Savior. They're going on a permanent vacation and we'll join them soon.
And there's no better place to be than in the presence of God. It's one of those ways we need our minds transformed.....we're in the process of having our minds renewed to have the mind of Christ.
And I want to be like Paul who said for him to live is Christ and to die is gain. And when he said that he was imprisoned with a prison guard shackled to him. He could be sentenced for death at any moment. And guess what he was doing. He was rejoicing and telling the Philippians to live a life rejoicing no matter what circumstances they were in.
He was sharing the gospel with the other prisoners and the guards and Paul rejoiced that many were being saved. That was life to him.......he lived Christ.
It's all in how we look at it and we need to see this world with the eyes of Jesus instead of the eyes of the world. We're dying daily as we put off the old man and put on the new. Putting off lying is a part of the process to become more like Jesus and His ways, to live holy and righteous before God and before others so that they'll see Jesus.
Hi Rose!
I have nothing but the utmost respect for you so I'm definitely not trying to argue or be contentious at all, but your post got me thinking about "lies of omission", and I just wanted to share my thoughts.
I am certainly not saying that Samuel sinned by saying what God told him to say.
But, I was thinking about the times in our own lives when we might be dealing with someone who is "holding back information."
For instance, let's say I was married, and my husband said he was going to his hometown to visit his family (and I wasn't able to go.) Peachy keen, right? I should be wishing him a great time with his family, no?
BUT, what if he fails to tell me that he also plans to have lunch with his ex-girlfriend while he's there... Is it a lie?
Some would say no--he's just holding back a little information. And so maybe they do have lunch, and maybe it's all innocent.
But would failing to tell me about it be acceptable, or somehow justified? Some people might not have a problem with it, but I know I would (even if it did stay withing boundaries, I'd be upset that he "failed" to be honest with me about this vital piece of information.) Maybe he'd tell me that he didn't want to upset me or have me "freak out" over "nothing."
Sorry, but I call horse feathers on that one.
I might not know specifically what to call it... But I know that I, for one, would call it "wrong".
But maybe that's just me.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for you
so I'm definitely not trying to argue or be contentious at all, but your post got me thinking about "lies of omission", and I just wanted to share my thoughts. I am certainly not saying that Samuel sinned by saying what God told him to say.
But, I was thinking about the times in our own lives when we might be dealing with someone who is "holding back information."
For instance, let's say I was married, and my husband said he was going to his hometown to visit his family (and I wasn't able to go.) Peachy keen, right? I should be wishing him a great time with his family, no?
BUT, what if he fails to tell me that he also plans to have lunch with his ex-girlfriend while he's there... Is it a lie?
Some would say no--he's just holding back a little information. And so maybe they do have lunch, and maybe it's all innocent.
But would failing to tell me about it be acceptable, or somehow justified? Some people might not have a problem with it, but I know I would (even if it did stay withing boundaries, I'd be upset that he "failed" to be honest with me about this vital piece of information.) Maybe he'd tell me that he didn't want to upset me or have me "freak out" over "nothing."
Sorry, but I call horse feathers on that one.
I might not know specifically what to call it... But I know that I, for one, would call it "wrong".
But maybe that's just me.
First, if she was the kind of girl who would freak out over nothing, I wouldn't have married her.
Second, if I married her I sure hope I could trust her enough to tell her something like that.
Third, if I didn't think she'd be cool with the lunch meeting I wouldn't go. If my old flame didn't understand keeping the peace at home, SHE wasn't worth my time back when I dated her.
Not telling my (hypothetical) wife because she would freak out is a good indication that the whole thing is a bad idea to start with. 1+2+3=Lying by omission is in this case not justified unless the guy is married to a real loon and he didn't know she was nuts before he married her.
But that's just my opinion, and it could be wrong. I don't even have an ex, so what do I know?
Maybe he'd tell me that he didn't want to upset me or have me "freak out" over "nothing."
First, if she was the kind of girl who would freak out over nothing, I wouldn't have married her.
Second, if I married her I sure hope I could trust her enough to tell her something like that.
Third, if I didn't think she'd be cool with the lunch meeting I wouldn't go. If my old flame didn't understand keeping the peace at home, SHE wasn't worth my time back when I dated her. Not telling my (hypothetical) wife because she would freak out is a good indication that the whole thing is a bad idea to start with.
1+2+3=Lying by omission is in this case not justified unless the guy is married to a real loon and he didn't know she was nuts before he married her.
But that's just my opinion, and it could be wrong. I don't even have an ex, so what do I know?
First, if she was the kind of girl who would freak out over nothing, I wouldn't have married her.
Second, if I married her I sure hope I could trust her enough to tell her something like that.
Third, if I didn't think she'd be cool with the lunch meeting I wouldn't go. If my old flame didn't understand keeping the peace at home, SHE wasn't worth my time back when I dated her.
Not telling my (hypothetical) wife because she would freak out is a good indication that the whole thing is a bad idea to start with. 1+2+3=Lying by omission is in this case not justified unless the guy is married to a real loon and he didn't know she was nuts before he married her.
But that's just my opinion, and it could be wrong. I don't even have an ex, so what do I know?
Have I ever mentioned I'm single? Have I ever mentioned I'm HAPPILY single? Have you ever wondered why?
That's why.
*Lynx strolls away singing a song that says something about spurs that jingle jangle jingle...
That's why.
*Lynx strolls away singing a song that says something about spurs that jingle jangle jingle...
Well, I am NOT happily single.
But oddly enough, I know a lot of women that are happily single since we broke up.
It's like breaking up with them was some kind of beautiful gift, that just filled them with joy.
A beautiful gift.
I really like to think of it as my ministry.