LIES! ALL LIES!

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U

Ugly

Guest
#1
Yeah since sensationalistic and misleading titles seems to be more and more common with Christians I went with one too. To see how I'd feel. Not good so far.

Anyways.
In another thread I saw a few members state that All lies were wrong. Period. I've also known people in "real life" that said the same thing. Even as far as saying that if you have to lie to someone to throw them a surprise party is still a sin.
I have to ask myself if they've ever lied or exaggerated or minimized in regards to the feelings of a spouse, family, close friend, etc... or if they genuinely tell the full truth in all circumstances.

So, thought I'd see what others thought. I already know where I stand, so I'm not seeking advice. And this has nothing to do with the other thread. Just a curiosity to see what people think on the subject.
 
Sep 30, 2017
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#2
I don't know, I'll let you know if I ever tell a lie.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
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#3
I'm terrible at lying. I tend to cause a lot of butt hurt. I gave up trying to lie, because the truth always surfaces anyways.
 

Innerfire89

Senior Member
Aug 23, 2017
586
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#4
I'd say lead with the truth as much as possible. We should always be considerate towards the feelings of others, but not at the expense of misleading them.
Like the old "do I look fat in this" question, if they do then let them know or they'll go around looking fat which isn't what they want. But do so in a loving manner and blame it on what they're wearing if that's what's honest.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#5
But are ALL lies Always a sin? That is more of the meat of the question. Such as the surprise party example. Is it a sin to lie about a surprise party?
Is there a distinction between a selfish lie and a lie to help another or is a lie a lie, only black and white?
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
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#6
I wonder if a woman ever walked up to Jesus and asked "Does these rags make me look fat?" I wonder what he said?
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
337
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#7
I don't think there's anything wrong with telling little white lies to spare someones feelings, or not revealing the entire truth because of harmful results or reactions. The ninth commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness" is the type of lie that causes others to suffer repercussions. Lying to intentionally mislead or manipulate someone else is also dishonest. But telling the entire truth upon request is not always a prudent thing to do, even Jesus said not to cast your pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6). He himself also refused to answer all questions; "I will ask you one question. Answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things" (Mark 11:29). Not a lie per se, but just a need not to be completely open to those with alternative motives.. jmo
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
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#8
I've always found it interesting that there are several cases in the Bible in which people told outright lies:

1. Rahab lied in order to save the spies of Israel (Joshua 2:4.)

2. God Himself told Samuel to tell anyone who stops him on his journey that he was going to offer a sacrifice--but not that his true purpose was to anoint David as the next king. (I Sam. 16:2.)

3. One of David's wives, Michal (Saul's daughter), tells the guards that David is sleeping, when in reality, she had basically set up a dummy in a bed and told them he was sleeping. (I Sam 19:14.)

4. When Pharaoh ordered that all Hebrew boys under the age of 2 were to be thrown into the river, the Israelite midwives lied to Pharaoh in order to save their lives (Exodus 1:19.) One of my favorite passages says that, "because the midwives feared God, He gave them families of their own," but it does not say explicitly that God approved of the lies being told in order to save the Hebrew boys.

I've always wondered about this.

The footnote in my Bible says that while "deception is wrong, in a sinful world, it's not always possible to choose between pure good and pure evil, and so there might be times when one is compelled to choose the less sinful alternative." It also states that "while God does want people to tell the truth, but even more so, He expects people to protect innocent human lives."

I would assume that lying in all forms is wrong. But are there times when I would choose to lie? It all depends on the situation. If someone asked me if they looked heavy in an outfit, I'd probably say something like, "I'm not sure if that's really your color... Maybe we can look for something green instead," so that I'm being truthful but yet trying not to hurt their feelings.

But if it came down to something as dire as protecting a loved one's safety, then yes, absolutely--I would say what I had to in order to keep them safe, and I would have to hope that God would forgive me.
 

PJW

Banned
Oct 6, 2017
859
6
0
#9
I've always found it interesting that there are several cases in the Bible in which people told outright lies:

1. Rahab lied in order to save the spies of Israel (Joshua 2:4.)

2. God Himself told Samuel to tell anyone who stops him on his journey that he was going to offer a sacrifice--but not that his true purpose was to anoint David as the next king. (I Sam. 16:2.)

3. One of David's wives, Michal (Saul's daughter), tells the guards that David is sleeping, when in reality, she had basically set up a dummy in a bed and told them he was sleeping. (I Sam 19:14.)

4. When Pharaoh ordered that all Hebrew boys under the age of 2 were to be thrown into the river, the Israelite midwives lied to Pharaoh in order to save their lives (Exodus 1:19.) One of my favorite passages says that, "because the midwives feared God, He gave them families of their own," but it does not say explicitly that God approved of the lies being told in order to save the Hebrew boys.

I've always wondered about this.

The footnote in my Bible says that while "deception is wrong, in a sinful world, it's not always possible to choose between pure good and pure evil, and so there might be times when one is compelled to choose the less sinful alternative." It also states that "while God does want people to tell the truth, but even more so, He expects people to protect innocent human lives."

I would assume that lying in all forms is wrong. But are there times when I would choose to lie? It all depends on the situation. If someone asked me if they looked heavy in an outfit, I'd probably say something like, "I'm not sure if that's really your color... Maybe we can look for something green instead," so that I'm being truthful but yet trying not to hurt their feelings.

But if it came down to something as dire as protecting a loved one's safety, then yes, absolutely--I would say what I had to in order to keep them safe, and I would have to hope that God would forgive me.
Don't leave the door open to sin.
All lies are sin.
Those you cited were either not Jewish-Law keepers or were Jewish Law keepers who were never reborn of Godly seed that cannot bring forth evil fruit.
Nobody was perfect till Jesus was raised from the dead and we were allowed to partake in that death, burial, and resurrection as new creatures.
,
 
T

Tinuviel

Guest
#10
There is no such thing as a sin that is only sometimes wrong. So yep. I would have to say that lying is always wrong.

As for your question of if I have ever lied or exaggerated/minimized, sadly, that is something I used to (and sometimes still do) struggle with greatly. With the help of the Holy Spirit, I am overcoming that. Knowing that something is wrong doesn't mean that you always do it right every time, so I still struggle with that.

I think we can safely say it is not always right to tell all you know (even if someone seems to be operating under delusions), since Jesus Christ was silent when people asked Him questions.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
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#11
Don't leave the door open to sin.
All lies are sin.
Those you cited were either not Jewish-Law keepers or were Jewish Law keepers who were never reborn of Godly seed that cannot bring forth evil fruit.
Nobody was perfect till Jesus was raised from the dead and we were allowed to partake in that death, burial, and resurrection as new creatures.
,
Here in the United States, I think we're often unaware of what others are going through in other parts of the world on a daily basis (and in places here in the US that we don't want to talk about.)

Historical events such as the Holocaust and life of Anne Frank seem so far away from us--just a few pages in a history book that most of us have no personal experience with.

One of the things I like about the church I'm attending is that the pastor frequently tells us about things that are happening to other Christians around the world. A few weeks ago, he told us about a man in Africa who hid 17 young Christian women in his bathroom (which was half the size of most of our bathrooms) for several months in order to save their lives from insurgents.

Obviously, he had to lie to the authorities and anyone who came to search his house while he was keeping them hidden.

I know others will disagree, but if push comes to shove, I can only hope that I could be brave enough to do the same.

I have to wonder, if a person were to tell the truth and just hand them over to be killed without even trying to put up a fight, would God applaud that?

I'm not trying to justify lying. I'm simply saying that if I had to choose, I would hope God would forgive me for sinning in order to try to protect someone else.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
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#12
There is no such thing as a sin that is only sometimes wrong. So yep. I would have to say that lying is always wrong.

As for your question of if I have ever lied or exaggerated/minimized, sadly, that is something I used to (and sometimes still do) struggle with greatly. With the help of the Holy Spirit, I am overcoming that. Knowing that something is wrong doesn't mean that you always do it right every time, so I still struggle with that.

I think we can safely say it is not always right to tell all you know (even if someone seems to be operating under delusions), since Jesus Christ was silent when people asked Him questions.

I agree, even a lie for the purpose of good would still be missing the mark of perfection. A lie is not holy or righteous no matter how well intentioned. Those who live a life of lying will find themselves in a lake that won't be to their liking.

A person once told me that liars wouldn't enter heaven. I was shocked and said, "liars won't even heaven?" in disbelief. This conversation was truly a visitation from God. The person wasn't a believer, but I believe God had him say this purposely for my sake. That shocked me enough for God to get my attention, even though I wasn't saved as yet.

So no, we can't put righteous and add lie to the word to make it sinless. There's no such thing. Sometimes closed lips are the answer.
 

Daylilies

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2017
110
3
18
#13
I'm not trying to justify lying. I'm simply saying that if I had to choose, I would hope God would forgive me for sinning in order to try to protect someone else.
I believe that God focuses on our intentions; so if we are lying to protect others or ourselves, spare someone's feelings, or help throw an awesome surprise party, it isn't a sin.
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,799
8,103
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#14
Well shoot. I saw the thread title and thought this was a stray thread from the conspiracy forum. Then I saw who the author was and thought, "Surely not!"
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,940
4,581
113
#15
I believe that God focuses on our intentions; so if we are lying to protect others or ourselves, spare someone's feelings, or help throw an awesome surprise party, it isn't a sin.
I often wish there was an example in the Bible of someone contemplating a lie but deciding to tell the truth and trusting God instead, in order to remind us that God really can work these things out.

For example, what if the Hebrew midwives would have told the truth instead of lying to save the Israelite boys?

Would God have chosen to save them another way? Would He have struck the Egyptian women unable to bare male children, and suddenly, these women would have found that the only way they could have boys would be to adopt them from the Israelites, as Pharaoh's daughter did?

I don't know.

But I would have liked to have seen what God's plan would have been if the midwives had told the truth.

Don't get me wrong--I have nothing but respect for these women and for what they did in order to save their people.

It's just that I would have liked to have seen what God's true will would have been instead.
 

Daylilies

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2017
110
3
18
#16
I often wish there was an example in the Bible of someone contemplating a lie but deciding to tell the truth and trusting God instead, in order to remind us that God really can work these things out.

For example, what if the Hebrew midwives would have told the truth instead of lying to save the Israelite boys?

Would God have chosen to save them another way? Would He have struck the Egyptian women unable to bare male children, and suddenly, these women would have found that the only way they could have boys would be to adopt them from the Israelites, as Pharaoh's daughter did?

I don't know.

But I would have liked to have seen what God's plan would have been if the midwives had told the truth.

Don't get me wrong--I have nothing but respect for these women and for what they did in order to save their people.

It's just that I would have liked to have seen what God's true will would have been instead.
Great points! I feel like this could be a really great Bible study topic... :)
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#17
I often wish there was an example in the Bible of someone contemplating a lie but deciding to tell the truth and trusting God instead, in order to remind us that God really can work these things out.

For example, what if the Hebrew midwives would have told the truth instead of lying to save the Israelite boys?

Would God have chosen to save them another way? Would He have struck the Egyptian women unable to bare male children, and suddenly, these women would have found that the only way they could have boys would be to adopt them from the Israelites, as Pharaoh's daughter did?

I don't know.

But I would have liked to have seen what God's plan would have been if the midwives had told the truth.

Don't get me wrong--I have nothing but respect for these women and for what they did in order to save their people.

It's just that I would have liked to have seen what God's true will would have been instead.

Hi Seoul,

I don't know if there's an example or not. I'll put my thinking cap on. :) Maybe someone else will think of someone in the scriptures.

But we don't find God telling anyone to lie.

Rahab lied on her own. She wasn't told to lie. God would have found another way to protect the spies.

Samuel didn't lie. He did sacrifice. Holding back information isn't lying and in the text it doesn't show us an interaction of Samuel speaking with Saul so it seems it really wasn't an issue. It was a fear of Samuel's, but what he feared didn't happen.

Here's the context of the midwives beginning in verse 17.

Then the king of Egypt spoke to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiphrah and the other was named Puah; and he said, “When you are helping the Hebrew women to give birth and see them upon the birthstool, if it is a son, then you shall put him to death; but if it is a daughter, then she shall live.” But the midwives feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt had commanded them, but let the boys live. So the king of Egypt called for the midwives and said to them, “Why have you done this thing, and let the boys live?” The midwives said to Pharaoh, “Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are vigorous and give birth before the midwife can get to them.” So God was good to the midwives, and the people multiplied, and became very mighty. Because the midwives feared God, He established households for them. Then Pharaoh commanded all his people, saying, “Every son who is born you are to cast into the Nile, and every daughter you are to keep alive.”
~~~~~~~

Here's one commentary on this.

Naturally, their fear of God led them to refuse the order to murder. It makes more sense to me that they could have informed the Hebrew wives what the Pharaoh had commanded, and, thus, many of the Israelite women were giving birth before the midwives would arrive so they would not be in a position of killing the child. Perhaps the midwives took their time to arrive as well. That would allow the children to survive and the midwives to speak the truth to Pharaoh.

What would make pregnant mothers more vigorous or lively to have the child born? Make them aware that if they do not give birth quickly their child’s life may be in danger. There are any number of ways the mothers and midwives could have avoided it.

It seems to me that the midwives didn't lie and what they said was true. How all that worked, I don't know. But the thing that they were counted for as righteous was that they didn't kill the babies and let them live.
[FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT]
 
Aug 2, 2009
24,574
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#18
[video=youtube;uelHwf8o7_U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uelHwf8o7_U[/video]
 

SalRuth

Junior Member
Oct 17, 2017
6
0
0
#19
Im not sure. To have a surpise party is something. But i guess its to do with the motivation behind the lies. Most lies to me seem to be to protect ones self not for other people.