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Thread: Does Anyone Else Suffer from a Persistent Case of "Christian Guilt"?

  1. #81
    Senior Member La_Vie_En_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Else Suffer from a Persistent Case of "Christian Guilt"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 17Bees View Post
    We're saved by the Grace of God, but I also know Protestants are much embroiled in the act of salvation, not giving much thought about living the rest of their lives under God's Grace. Yes, we are saved by Grace, but the conflict (in my opinion) comes from wanting to please God as a saved Christian after salvation. We want to be someone in whom God is pleased. When we think we've failed it's difficult to say some magic prayer and reckon we're fine.

    Of course, if you do something as some sort of penance, someone's going to consider that a WORK!! and further a guilt. Catholics, in a way, kind of have it right in that there's some kind of payment to be made for sin. Penance is not a payment to God - it's a punishment for ourselves because in our worldly way, we think our sin requires more than a simple act of forgiveness when our spirit self KNOWS the act is not simple at all. It required death. It required blood. But not understanding this precious payment is the disease while guilt is the symptom.
    I’m not sure I understand what you are saying.

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    Default Re: Does Anyone Else Suffer from a Persistent Case of "Christian Guilt"?

    Quote Originally Posted by La_Vie_En_Rose View Post
    I’m not sure I understand what you are saying.
    Well, in your post you made a distinction of Catholic guilt as opposed to Protestant and while I believe that salvation is by the Grace of God, I (personally) believe that God's mercy can be revoked if He so desires. I know that a lot of people believe that salvation is assured and can do nothing to demerit grace, but I simply look at the plight of Adam and Eve whose gift of grace was the garden of Eden and an everlasting life of bliss but was revoked by their disobedience. Paul in Romans says "See then the kindness and severity of God, severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you provided you continue in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" Romans 11:22. He said "provided". See also Hebrews 10:26 - 29 and Peter 2: 20-21. And I always remember Jesus warning "not all who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven". I simply believe Grace can be given or taken away if so warranted. I know that 'whosoever believes in Him shall have everlasting life' but I've seen faith lost in others. Do they share in that assurance? Either way, it's not my call. Just what I believe.

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    Senior Member La_Vie_En_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Else Suffer from a Persistent Case of "Christian Guilt"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 17Bees View Post
    Well, in your post you made a distinction of Catholic guilt as opposed to Protestant and while I believe that salvation is by the Grace of God, I (personally) believe that God's mercy can be revoked if He so desires. I know that a lot of people believe that salvation is assured and can do nothing to demerit grace, but I simply look at the plight of Adam and Eve whose gift of grace was the garden of Eden and an everlasting life of bliss but was revoked by their disobedience. Paul in Romans says "See then the kindness and severity of God, severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you provided you continue in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" Romans 11:22. He said "provided". See also Hebrews 10:26 - 29 and Peter 2: 20-21. And I always remember Jesus warning "not all who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven". I simply believe Grace can be given or taken away if so warranted. I know that 'whosoever believes in Him shall have everlasting life' but I've seen faith lost in others. Do they share in that assurance? Either way, it's not my call. Just what I believe.
    Thank you for clarifying. Personally, I believe Adam and Eve are in Paradise and will be in the new Earth. I was being kind of facetious about Catholic guilt, it is a well known phrase. I suppose it is the difference between people who believe grace can be lost, and people who believe it can not be lost. Not to be flippant, but I heard a preacher say “The only type of life God gives in Christ is everlasting. If it can be lost, it is not everlasting.”

    I know Christians who believe salvation can be lost, and I love them- but disagree with this doctrine. It is something that neither side can convince the other- and kind of unprofitable to argue. For every verse about condemnation, there are verses about assurance, not to mention dispensations.

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    Senior Member toinena's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Else Suffer from a Persistent Case of "Christian Guilt"?

    I don't favor to cultivate the guilt as it might have sounded in my previous post.

    What I do believe is that we all fall short of God's standards
    And that guilt is necessary for repenting.
    Brrrr! Humbug!

    Make the world happy, play the bassoon.

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    Senior Member MissCris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Else Suffer from a Persistent Case of "Christian Guilt"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 17Bees View Post
    Well, in your post you made a distinction of Catholic guilt as opposed to Protestant and while I believe that salvation is by the Grace of God, I (personally) believe that God's mercy can be revoked if He so desires. I know that a lot of people believe that salvation is assured and can do nothing to demerit grace, but I simply look at the plight of Adam and Eve whose gift of grace was the garden of Eden and an everlasting life of bliss but was revoked by their disobedience. Paul in Romans says "See then the kindness and severity of God, severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you provided you continue in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" Romans 11:22. He said "provided". See also Hebrews 10:26 - 29 and Peter 2: 20-21. And I always remember Jesus warning "not all who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven". I simply believe Grace can be given or taken away if so warranted. I know that 'whosoever believes in Him shall have everlasting life' but I've seen faith lost in others. Do they share in that assurance? Either way, it's not my call. Just what I believe.
    This post has been weighing heavily on my heart...and I didn’t know how to even begin responding, I just knew I needed to. It’s a heartbreaking thing, in my mind, when someone who has been so kind to not only myself, but many others on this site, is...not lost, because I don’t believe you are- but just uncertain. I don’t know if you believe currently that you are saved or not, and it’s not my business and I’m not asking that. I am asking, read through 1 John. Read through all of Romans 11, because the context of the whole chapter is important. We can know, we can be assured, that our salvation is not something we can lose. Yes, there are many people who claim faith, call out “Lord, Lord”, even seem to bear fruit- but if they are able to lose their faith...were they truly saved?

    Christians will go through highs and lows in their time on earth- our faith can become weak, our lives unfruitful. I’ve been there. If people who met me 5 years ago only saw that section of my life, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they simply assumed I had fallen away from God, end of story. And for those who don’t truly believe in Christ, that time of “losing faith” or falling away Is the end of the story; but not for the saved, Not for those who God has claimed as His own. God calls us back- sooner or later, he comes after us.

    So the idea that our salvation can be lost, or taken away, saddens me...because that’s not who God IS. He has given us a precious gift, he gave us his Son- don’t you think Christ’s work, his sacrifice, his death on that cross...don’t you think that gift is cheapened if we are able to lose it, or if God is fickle and takes it back?
    Pipp, tourist, Tommy379 and 1 others like this.


    There's joy for the morning
    Oh sinner, be still
    Earth has no sorrow
    That Heaven can't heal
    -Crowder

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    Default Re: Does Anyone Else Suffer from a Persistent Case of "Christian Guilt"?

    There is never enough time to do the "good works" that need to be done.
    I am only one person. Do I really make a difference?
    I can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me.

    We get bombarded with so many "should" and "have to" in our walk with God. It can become so overwhelming that we loose sight of true Christianity - becoming like Christ. Our lives have to be a balance of surrendering to Christ and obeying Him. We need to be still before the Lord - hear Him, know Him, become transformed to be like Him. Then, we must live the life He put us in, shining Him everywhere.

    I cannot give you specific how to's without becoming legalistic. Scripture tells us to pick up our cross and follow Him daily. Pray constantly. Love always and in all situations. Christianity is not taking time out of our day for God, but living every second of our day with Him. Seek God first. Ask Him to show you the opportunities He wants to use you in. Obey Him regardless of how you feel and see how God will renew you in the Holy Spirit. Be careful to not get caught up in what everyone else thinks you should do because that burden will be very heavy. Being single doesn't give us more time; it just gives us a different platform to work from. God promised to show Himself as we seek. He promised to answer if we ask. He promised to open the door if we will knock. Enjoy the walk with God.
    seoulsearch likes this.

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    Default Re: Does Anyone Else Suffer from a Persistent Case of "Christian Guilt"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MissCris View Post
    This post has been weighing heavily on my heart...and I didn’t know how to even begin responding, I just knew I needed to. It’s a heartbreaking thing, in my mind, when someone who has been so kind to not only myself, but many others on this site, is...not lost, because I don’t believe you are- but just uncertain. I don’t know if you believe currently that you are saved or not, and it’s not my business and I’m not asking that. I am asking, read through 1 John. Read through all of Romans 11, because the context of the whole chapter is important. We can know, we can be assured, that our salvation is not something we can lose. Yes, there are many people who claim faith, call out “Lord, Lord”, even seem to bear fruit- but if they are able to lose their faith...were they truly saved?

    Christians will go through highs and lows in their time on earth- our faith can become weak, our lives unfruitful. I’ve been there. If people who met me 5 years ago only saw that section of my life, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they simply assumed I had fallen away from God, end of story. And for those who don’t truly believe in Christ, that time of “losing faith” or falling away Is the end of the story; but not for the saved, Not for those who God has claimed as His own. God calls us back- sooner or later, he comes after us.

    So the idea that our salvation can be lost, or taken away, saddens me...because that’s not who God IS. He has given us a precious gift, he gave us his Son- don’t you think Christ’s work, his sacrifice, his death on that cross...don’t you think that gift is cheapened if we are able to lose it, or if God is fickle and takes it back?

    Thank you MissCris for this. I don't think God is fickle nor do I think His gifts are cheapened, but I do (at least at this time) stand by my own personal beliefs about this. I guess you could always argue that a person who was supposedly saved and then had a change of heart was never saved to begin with, but I can't make that assumption. I think God knows hearts and if His Grace was revoked, it wouldn't have come cheaply. It would have been warranted. I kind of agree with La Vie En Rose in that the argument is a bit moot and has been argued for centuries, but I also don't believe I personally have lost God's Grace. I'll go as far as to say I don't know how I ever could, but it's still not my call or yours.
    MissCris likes this.

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    Senior Member MissCris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Else Suffer from a Persistent Case of "Christian Guilt"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 17Bees View Post
    Thank you MissCris for this. I don't think God is fickle nor do I think His gifts are cheapened, but I do (at least at this time) stand by my own personal beliefs about this. I guess you could always argue that a person who was supposedly saved and then had a change of heart was never saved to begin with, but I can't make that assumption. I think God knows hearts and if His Grace was revoked, it wouldn't have come cheaply. It would have been warranted. I kind of agree with La Vie En Rose in that the argument is a bit moot and has been argued for centuries, but I also don't believe I personally have lost God's Grace. I'll go as far as to say I don't know how I ever could, but it's still not my call or yours.
    I didn’t figure one little post would change your belief And I Can kinda get where you’re coming from. I just...well, either I feel compelled to address it any time I sense sadness or...whatever feeling I picked up (possibly imagined) from your post, or else I just have a habit of throwing in my two cents where it’s not really needed. Bit of both, probably


    There's joy for the morning
    Oh sinner, be still
    Earth has no sorrow
    That Heaven can't heal
    -Crowder

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    Senior Member G00WZ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Else Suffer from a Persistent Case of "Christian Guilt"?

    Yea i used to operate like that, i was always in a constant state of questioning myself all the time, being double minded,fearful,doubting, faithless, listening to everyone else's opinions about what i should and should not be doing.. It's a waste of time. Instead i choose to listen to Holy spirit, and even if i think im not, i still choose to move in a linear motion, in faith, not questioning or doubting the choice made... What's done is done, being resolved in any outcome, but how can i grow from this, and do ____ better next time?,or what did i learn?, and i keep this question between only me and God, i do not invite other people into it because its not them i am growing into, but Christ. Being grounded in truth, being alive to God through faith, and constantly growing is what gets it there...Things like guilt, doubt, fear, all that wonderful garbage is what causes a person to go in circles.
    seoulsearch likes this.

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    Senior Member seoulsearch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does Anyone Else Suffer from a Persistent Case of "Christian Guilt"?

    I wanted to give a bit of an "update" to this thread's original post about the man at the gym who was trying to start a conversation with me.

    I was back at the gym a few days ago and he was there again. This time there were several other people working out, and he was going from person to person, trying to start a conversation. It didn't matter if they were heavily involved in doing other things or had headphones on, he would just go right up and start right in as if they were available and interested in talking.

    After watching him for a while, I got this feeling that... He was either unaware or purposely ignoring things such as people's time and personal space. I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm at the gym, I'm there to work and not socialize. It's just like when I'm doing any other job. Small talk is fine, and I understand that there might be times when I need to sacrifice that time for someone else, but unless it's an emergency, I'm just there to work out.

    And, the funniest thing happened while he was trying to get all these people to talk to him--he actually got a call on his cell phone and (since he has a voice that can be heard across the room) it was obvious that whoever called him wanted to talk, but he was the one putting THEM off, saying, "Yeah... yeah... I can't talk right now."

    The most ironic thing is that the reason he "couldn't talk" was because he was busy trying to get strangers to talk to him.

    I understand that maybe HE was stressed out by the person who was calling HIM... But I couldn't help but smile at the fact that he apparently DOES have people to talk to in his life--he just doesn't want to talk to them or needs a break from them, and, it seems, is always looking for someone new to talk to.

    After that, I didn't feel bad anymore for wanting to just finish my workout and not talk, and I honestly felt that this was God's confirmation that it was ok.
    MissCris, Susanna, Pipp and 4 others like this.
    If it feels like you can't feel anything, are you still feeling something?


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