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Thread: Finance before Romance?

  1. #1
    CC_Bride
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    Default Finance before Romance?

    (by: Pastor Mark Driscoll)


    In Real Marriage, I write about Little-Boy Larry.Little-Boy Larrynever grew up—like Peter Pan.
    Little-Boy Larry tends to be disorganized and has a hard time getting his life together for an extended time. Getting and keeping a job are always tough because he’s not very ambitious and finds that ongoing responsibilities tend to get in the way of his hobbies and friends.
    Unable to pay his bills or look after himself, Little-Boy Larry tends to borrow money from other people who keep an eye on him in ways an adult looks after a child. Women are attracted to him in the way a mother is attracted to a helpless baby.
    Little-Boy Larry makes for a horrible husband because he expects his wife to provide as much or more than he does for the family. In doing so, he abdicates his God-given responsibility to lead his house well and be the primary provider for his wife and kids.

    A Man Provides

    In our society, many men shrug off this responsibility and live as Little-Boy Larry. This has unfortunately led to many women writing off men and taking matters into their own hands. As a result, for the first time in the America’s history there are more single adults than married and statistically, women are more likely than the men to attend college, be working a career track job, and attend church. The Atlantic (here and here), The New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal have all run major stories recently on the changing landscape of gender in our culture.
    The Bible provides an alternative to what we are seeing in society today. In the Bible a man is called to grow up, move out of his parents’ home, get a job, pay his own bills, and take responsibility for himself (Genesis 2:24).
    This is not to say that a wife can’t or shouldn’t work, but the primary responsibility resides on the husband to provide (1 Timothy 5:8), and unfortunately, many men have abdicated this role to women, placing undue burdens on their families.

    Providing Isn’t Easy

    That being said, I know that we’re facing some very hard economic times in the U.S. For many, employment isn’t exactly easy to find. There are many good, responsible men who are actively pursuing work but who may find it hard to land a good job.
    This is not surprising as part of the curse for Adam and Eve sinning in the Garden of Eden is that work would be hard (Genesis 3:17–19). This includes the hard work of finding good work.
    Given that, I thought I’d take write a few tips to single guys who wish to pursue a wife but who are also struggling financially and having a hard time getting a good job.

    It’s Not about Where You Are, but Where You Are Going

    First and foremost, the idea of a man leaving his parents’ home is one of maturation. It’s about leaving home, taking on adult responsibilities, and maturing as a man. So, if you find yourself in between opportunities, it’s not about what job you lost or don’t have—it’s about what you’re doing to change your circumstances.
    God knows your needs and the Bible promises he will meet them, but this doesn’t mean you sit idly by and just pray (Matt. 6:7-8, 25-34; 25:14-30). Think about it this way: In the midst of a drought, two farmers prayed to God for it to rain. Afterwards, only one of the farmers went out to prepare his fields, whereas the other farmer didn’t. Which farmer do you think prayed in faith?
    As you pray and seek Jesus, what are you doing about your circumstances? Are you sitting idly by at home or your parents’ house playing video games, tracking your fantasy football team, and surfing the web? Or are you busting your tail looking for another opportunity or making yourself more qualified by getting additional education or vocational training?

    You May Just Have to Get a Joe Job

    The key to understanding masculinity is Jesus Christ. Jesus was tough with religious blockheads, false teachers, the proud, and bullies. Jesus was tender with women, children, and those who were suffering or humble. Additionally, Jesus took responsibility for himself. He worked a Joe job for the first 30 years of his life swinging a hammer as a carpenter.
    We don’t always get the job that we want, which means sometimes we have to simply get a Joe job to provide our family (or even future one). A Joe job is one that isn’t glamorous but that is honest and pays the bills. For instance, my dad was a union construction worker who hung sheetrock. He worked day and night to provide for his family and he literally broke his back doing so. Was it his dream job? No, but he worked hard to provide for his family.
    While you’re in between opportunities, or striving to make yourself more qualified for other work, you need to find a job to provide for yourself—even if you don’t like the work.

    Find the Right Woman

    What kind of woman are you pursuing? Is she like the late Gwen Guthrie who sang, “Your silky words are sweet, but your pockets sure look empty. Ain’t nothin’ goin’ on but the rent. I’m lookin’ for a man to put some money in my hands?” If you meet a woman who will not be satisfied with the level of income and lifestyle that you can provide, then she’s probably not the woman for you. Since it’s your responsibility to provide for the material and financial needs of your family (1 Timothy 5:8), life is much easier when you’re married to a woman who is content with the lifestyle you are able to provide.
    If you work hard, give generously, invest smartly, and save prudently, you shouldn’t feel guilty for not making the big bucks. You want a wife who appreciates how you can provide rather than one who is continually dissatisfied with what you provide.

    Be Patient

    Finally, understand that your timing isn’t always God’s timing. You may have a desire to get married, but if you don’t have the resources to provide for a family—even in tough times—it’s best to wait until you can provide.
    Practically, this means doing everything in your power to find good work and trusting that the Lord will provide the opportunities to work and provide. Don’t waste your singleness. Rather use it well to serve the church, work hard at finding work, work hard at keeping work when you have it, and position yourself to be a husband and father who can provide.




    Having read this, do people agree or disagree with what was stated here. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Liamson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    Man does this, man does that. "We don’t always get the job that we want, which means sometimes we have to simply get a Joe job to provide our family (or even future one)." A job does not provide a family, it might provide for the material resources to have a family but if we are thinking Biblically about this, its not really a Biblical thing.

    I prefer to trust God a bit more than this article would suggest. It says trust in the Lord but wait until you have a good job before falling in love. How about trust in the Lord, through thick and thin, for better or worse. The Lord is the source of all provision. David was a King, lived in a cave, ran from his son, but trusted God in everything.

    I agree that pride does lead to a lot of people rejecting less than ideal job(s).

    I just get the sincere belief that this article was written by a father who saw his daughter marry someone less than ideal to his American standards.
    To say that love flows in my veins, unopposed deep, A thousand ways.

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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    I'm just going to say it. As I read this, 2 Thes 3 comes to mind. Everyone, male or female, who CAN work, should work. We all fall on hard times periodically in life. A lot of people are willing to accept help from those around them, but aren't willing to help others with the same enthusiasm. While looking for or preparing for the jobs we want/need, there are still ways to contribute: There are people in nursing homes and hospitals who need to be talked with, read to, and prayed with. There are babies in hospital nurseries and shelters who need to be rocked to sleep. There are community centers who need people to help serve meals to senior citizens and homeless folks. The floors, kitchens and restrooms in those centers need to be cleaned. There are elderly people who need help with yard work/housework and need to be driven to their medical appontments and to the grocery store. Churches need to be cleaned, need lawn care, need maintenance, clerical work needs to be done, etc. Idleness is indeed the devil's workshop, as it gives us too much time to become self-absorbed. We're not called to be self-absorbed. END OF RANT.

    I agree with most of the article. But, I don't think marriage has to wait until a guy can afford the perfect house, car, etc. Some of the most precious memories I have of my marriage are the years we spent scraping by with very little. It inspires creativity. It helps a couple understand what is really important in their relationship. It helps them appreciate what they build together. It increases their faith, as they see God work miracle after miracle in the way of financial blessings for those who are faithful to do what they can and trust Him to provide for their needs, and remember that it is Him Who gives us the ability to work.

    A lot of guys have issues with their lady having a better paying job than they do. It's a consideration. In a perfect world, it would be great for the man to be the major bread winner, because, frankly, doing the Superwife/Supermom thing is TOUGH. And I mean TOUGH. It can put a strain on a woman and, thus, her marriage. BUT, it is not a perfect world.

    I think the writer of the article has missed something. The Proverbs 31 woman is a very shrewd business woman. She is not only managing a household and family, she's got her own business thing going on and is quite the money manager. I realize that there are women out there who want the "socialite" life filled with day spas, shopping and girlie tea parties, but there's nothing like the satisfaction of knowing your worth and understanding the contribution you, as a woman. are making to your husband, children, church and the world.

    So many thoughts ran through my brain as I read this article, but these are the high points I wanted to share. Bottom line...Men should be gainfully employed if at all possible and I completely agree with them having an excellent work ethic, but marriage is about a couple working TOGETHER to build a godly life/home. I see so many young couples spending thousands of dollars on elaborate weddings and immediately expecting to have the things their parents have worked a lifetime for, but don't really appreciate them because they fail to understand that it's not the THINGS that are important. It's the love..the blood/sweat/tears/prayers/encouragement/support/arguments/making up that went into building a home and life that honors God that bonded their parents together.

  4. #4
    Senior Member juliet84's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    I havent really read the whole thing, but I totally agree with the last paragraph entitled Be Patient.....
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    Idiot in Chief Oncefallen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    I have to agree with Jullianna that if most of us waited until we were capable of supporting a family, most of us would never get married. Inevitably the more we make, the more we spend until something comes along that forces us to rearrange our fiscal priorities. The older generations got married and scraped along to make it work whereas the younger generation seems to think that they should immediately have those things that their parents scraped along for years to afford.

    There is much more to a man than his ability to provide for every financial need or want of his family. Does he have perseverance and a strong work ethic? Is he capable of providing for the emotional and spiritual needs of his family?

    I would, however, agree that many of the young men of the upcoming generation are shirking the idea of responsibility and maturity and striving to be eternal children who's primary goal in life is having fun.

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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    It looks like the focus of that article is mostly on material things, passing things. There is no such thing as job stability. If a woman marries a guy because of what he can provide her with in that way, then she may be in for a rude awakening. A guy can have a great paying job one minute, and the next minute he loses it and he's out of work. That's life. Then what? There aren't many guarantees in life. Like Liamson said, "A job does not provide a family."

    I also think the whole "Joe job" part is a bit insulting. His tone seems to be one of looking down his nose. He makes some valid points there, but I don't like how he did it. Sure, he says Jesus and his Dad worked one of "those" jobs but it still seems he's looking down. The truth is, a lot of those jobs are the backbone to life as we know it. Without the people out there breaking their backs to make life convenient for the more fotunate, they wouldn't be able to enjoy the same lifestyle.
    Pride and arrogance certainly would cause some to not take certain jobs. That I can agree with, if that's what he's saying.

    All that said, I do think he makes some good points at least. The Bible clearly speaks against laziness and encourages us to be responsible. In the real world though, even if you are an extremely hard worker, there is no guarantee that you're going to be well off or even get anything past scraping by.

    As for me, I'm glad I'm not rich and I don't have to worry about gold diggers. I'm upfront about what I can and can't promise.

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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    My parents taught us that we were never too good to take a job where we earned an honest dollar. And if we do it well, we honor the Lord, as we are to do all things as unto Him.

    Re: materialism..it's a funny thing. When we were a very young family, we didn't have much, but we didn't care. We were happy. Now I have the great job, the house, the car, the ..stuff...but now I'm downsizing as much as possible so I don't have to spend so much time taking care of all of the STUFF. Life is not about stuff.

    I agree with niceguyj that our security is not in our jobs, but in the One who provides not only our jobs, but exactly what we need exactly when we really need it.

  8. #8
    CC_Bride
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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    I read everyones comments and just thought Id add a few things I know about the author.

    When I first found it on the authors website, it was very clearly aimed at men (esp those types of men he calls "Little boy Larry"). Not mentioning women working is not him saying they shouldn't but just that women werent the audience he was writing to.
    Secondly, I don't recall reading anywhere where the author says finance has to be before romance hence the question mark at the end of the title, he wasn't making a black and white statement rather he was bringing up an issue for others to meditate and think about.

    And financially providing for the needs of the family as the husband is the head of the family is a biblical thing to do:
    Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Tim 5:8

    And neither is he saying people shouldnt marry unless the bloke has a steady white collar job. He said, be careful of the woman you want to marry and her opinion of the standard of living she wants. I think most women would agree that a man planning to have a wife and four kids while not thinking beyond flipping burgers is not viable nor responsible growth regardless of whether the work is hard earnt and honest. He is saying a man should cleave and leave his parents and part of that process means taking responsibility for his future and future family and how he is going to provide.

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    Senior Member Catlynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?




    This is all that I could think about while I was reading this article.
    “One does not surrender a life in an instant. That which is lifelong can only be surrendered in a lifetime.”
    ― Elisabeth Elliot

  10. #10
    Kooper
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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catlynn View Post



    This is all that I could think about while I was reading this article.
    LOL.......

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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    Quote Originally Posted by CC_Bride View Post
    I read everyones comments and just thought Id add a few things I know about the author.

    When I first found it on the authors website, it was very clearly aimed at men (esp those types of men he calls "Little boy Larry"). Not mentioning women working is not him saying they shouldn't but just that women werent the audience he was writing to.
    Secondly, I don't recall reading anywhere where the author says finance has to be before romance hence the question mark at the end of the title, he wasn't making a black and white statement rather he was bringing up an issue for others to meditate and think about.

    And financially providing for the needs of the family as the husband is the head of the family is a biblical thing to do:
    Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Tim 5:8

    And neither is he saying people shouldnt marry unless the bloke has a steady white collar job. He said, be careful of the woman you want to marry and her opinion of the standard of living she wants. I think most women would agree that a man planning to have a wife and four kids while not thinking beyond flipping burgers is not viable nor responsible growth regardless of whether the work is hard earnt and honest. He is saying a man should cleave and leave his parents and part of that process means taking responsibility for his future and future family and how he is going to provide.
    I think everyone understands that the article was directed at men, we were just expanding on the thoughts contained therein in order to counter some of the assumptions made by the writer, some of which were mildly offensive. But then, that's the writer's normal style, which I normally like.

    Although that particular version of scripture says "anyone" and not men, I do agree that the man, as head of the home, should be the primary provider, as it can help avoid certain power struggle difficulties that can arise within the marriage if he is not. I'm all for heading off conflict at the pass in relationships.

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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    I think I'm going to throw some more thoughts out there. I'm not sayiing there is anything wrong with traditional roles. Certainly not. I am thinking of a family I know though. The wife is a hospital administrator and pulls in the big bucks, to say the least. Her husband stopped working after they had children to be a stay at home Dad. He did the whole homeschooling thing and all that. Is anyone here going to argue that is wrong? I'm just curious. There are people out there who would.
    This is a strong, Christian family and it worked quite well for them. The man is by no means lazy. From all I can tell he's a great father and husband. He's well respected. He and his wife work together amazingly well. I'm certainly not going to judge what has worked, and worked quite well for them.

    I also had another thought. I was thinking of how the majority of threads here that are complaints and such are about men. I think there is a lot to Proverbs 31 and that post where Jullianna mentioned that. Women shouldn't be lazy either. There are plenty of women who want to meet a guy who will basically provide for her every want while she does nothing but sit back and get treated like a princess. They feel entitled somehow. I've seen this within the Christian community too. That is no more right than a lazy man...yet it doesn't seem to get frowned upon as much.
    I'm not trying to turn this into some battle of the sexes, because I really hate that kind of thing (not ALL men are alike not ALL women are alike either, we are individuals!). I'm just saying women shouldn't be lazy either. I believe God made each of us as individuals to do certain works. No one gets a free pass.

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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    I have a friend who is a doctor. Her husband is a Pastor who makes FAR less. He also home schools their kids. It works for them.

    I have had people make comments to me when I have dated guys who obviously made less than I do. It bothered them, but not me. Some guys can handle it, some can't. I think if a guy knows who he is, makes an honest wage, and is a man of God it doesn't have to be an issue. I have discovered that it IS a big issue for a lot of guys though. :/

    I absolutely agree that women don't get a free ride. Women are called to be the helpmates of their husbands in every way. That said, I don't want to slam stay at home moms OR dads in any way. Raising kids and caring for a home is a HUGE job. The thing is, the more a couple works together in every way, the less pressure there will be on both of them in a lot of ways.

    I was talking with some friends about this last night. If I somehow won a bazillion dollars today, I would still want to work at something. I'm thinking I would probably go back to school for a degree in business or law school in order to run a christian foundation I would establish. But...I'd probably travel a lot more than I do now

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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    I agree with this article, the Woman's place is in the home wiping snotty noses and cooking food and the mans job is bringing in the money.

    Of course I'm joking.. sort of. I think the traditional roles are best for raising kids. Someone needs to be home with them to show them love and to keep them from making bad decisions when they are older, but being married 8 years before having kids I have to wonder if it is good for a woman to sit at home watching the soaps (Misnomer cause they aren't very clean) while the man works and goes to school. I guess it depends on the woman also. I am sure some women use the time productively.

    Since that messed up part of my life has ended I realized that if a woman won't work before you marry her she probably isn't going to be much help around the house after you marry her either. That said I dated someone that worked at a very good job but pushing 40 was still living with her parents and spent everything she earned without a care in the world, not even to her debtors. God wants to manage our finances and pay our debtors.

    I don't think Man was put here to slave for a woman that sits on her butt and as I recall from the Bible the women ALSO worked hard. The women in the Bible not only cooked and cleaned but the wove cloth, they made clothes for the entire family, they made clothes to sell, they worked hard in the fields.

    Bottom line is Women in the Bible worked hard. If a woman has 6 kids and a house to tend to that is probably working hard.. If there are no children involved then I think she should work or do something productive like volunteer work. The Bible isn't friendly to lazy people.

  15. #15
    CC_Bride
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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    No way do I feel women should get a hyped sense of entitlement. Personally the only thing I felt entitled to as a single person was a husband who loved Jesus more than me and to treat me as Jesus treats us all since that is a command to men from God. And in return I expect my husband to feel entitled to receive godly submission and respect from me. Of course thats easier said than done. I don't expect him to be Jesus but to pursue Jesus, so if he messes up (which I will as well) I will readily forgive.

    I really like the Proverbs 31 woman, except the verse that says I need to be awake before dawn (I like my sleep!) But I suspect that pre dawn waking will occur when I have young children. The thing about work is that we were ordained to work (subduing and cultivating in Eden) even before the Fall and that it was very good for us. Im an undergrad occupational therapist, so I have seen how devastating it is for people to have no meaningful work/activities for themselves.
    I think wome who think being stay at home moms mean being soap and Oprah addicts are fools. All women should and will be homeward orientated at least in a few seasons of their life, and during the time when they are stay at home moms they should expect to get just a full plate of work as their husband gets at work, and both partners need to appreciated what the other does so there is no jealousy or bitterness. The work in question will always look different, and sadly in our culture we have taken away the value and downgraded what a stay at home mom does.

    I don't personally believe my husband will ever be a stay at home dad, nor do I think the notion is 100% biblical but Im certainly not going to condemn others who do it, since its just a secondary issue. Between my qualifications and my husbands, it would be obvious that I would be paid far more than him if I went into traditional OT, and thats fine but Im not going to be doing that. I am a wife and a mother before I am an employee, so I hold being a stay at home mom (until my children go to school) in much higher regard even if I could earn more going to work.
    Last edited by CC_Bride; February 5th, 2012 at 06:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Finance before Romance?

    I have to agree with the "awake before dawn" thing. My brain can wake up then, but it takes a few hours and some sweet tea before the rest of me will.

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