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R
I was listening to my favorite bible teacher the other day when he dropped a mind bomb on me:
"The truth is, we deserve hell, everything else is a gift."
This was such an epic statement I just felt the need to share it with everyone, and get their thoughts.
"The truth is, we deserve hell, everything else is a gift."
This was such an epic statement I just felt the need to share it with everyone, and get their thoughts.
I don't get it.
C
Doing away with that entitlement that most people feel that they have in the world, and realizing that we deserve nothing but hell, was a huge revelation for me in my walk with God. I think that plays a big role in the pride, fear and selfishness that can overtake peoples' lives. But realizing that IN and THROUGH Christ I am not only a new creation but that I can now join with Him in an inheritance as a child of the King is seriously mind-blowing. XD
Good thought, sir. ^_^
Good thought, sir. ^_^
Z
I love mind bombs....but ....huh??
I don't get it.
I don't get it.
The statement means that because of our sinful self centered and possessed nature we deserve absolutely nothing other than hell, but because God is so loving and gracious He gives us not only the gift of life, but every opportunity necessary to choose Jesus and avoid hell.
When you look at it as everything, not just the good, but the good and bad, as a gift, it should change your whole perspective on things. I've been through a divorce, I don't get to see my kids much more than 6 days a month right now, considering all I've had taken, with all I have left, it is a gift. I don't have my own place anymore, but I have parents who care enough to let me live with them. I pay way more in child support a month than I really should be, but I still get paid.
As a sinner, do I deserve hell? Absolutely. Do I have Jesus to save me? Yes, that is a gift, even without Jesus, just being alive, and being given a chance to know Jesus, is also a gift.
D
Everyone should tell children at an early age as possible that they are a hell deserving sinner and that things that haven't even done yet will lead them to eternal damnation.
I suggest starting whispering that to children in the womb.
"I want to be a fireman when I grow up or maybe a doctor or a fairy princess..."....""Why bother with those things child, there is an eternal lake of fire and torment waiting for you, you deserve that"...
There now isn't that freeing?
You know what this produced in me? A sense of entitlement. I deserve better when I got no reason why it was handed this. What did I ever do to you God before I was even born that you graciously reserved a spot with weeping and gnashing of teeth for me?
I suppose when I am in hell I won't be able to take comfort in knowing it's what I deserved.
The truth is two people screwed it all up and they deserve hell, the rest of us are just collateral damage.
Those are my thoughts.
What does this have to do with being single anyway? This should be int he bible discussion forum, with all the other condemnation.
I suggest starting whispering that to children in the womb.
"I want to be a fireman when I grow up or maybe a doctor or a fairy princess..."....""Why bother with those things child, there is an eternal lake of fire and torment waiting for you, you deserve that"...
There now isn't that freeing?
You know what this produced in me? A sense of entitlement. I deserve better when I got no reason why it was handed this. What did I ever do to you God before I was even born that you graciously reserved a spot with weeping and gnashing of teeth for me?
I suppose when I am in hell I won't be able to take comfort in knowing it's what I deserved.
The truth is two people screwed it all up and they deserve hell, the rest of us are just collateral damage.
Those are my thoughts.
What does this have to do with being single anyway? This should be int he bible discussion forum, with all the other condemnation.
Z
there's no intent of condemnation. At all. The intent is to get people to look at their life and realize what they have is a gift. The fact is, as the bible itself says, we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and other than God, there is not one who is righteous
Why did I share it in here? Because I'm at least slightly familiar with the people in here and was interested in their thoughts.
I apologize if my post offended you in anyway, that was not the intent. Again the intent was to realize that all we have, is a gift.
Why did I share it in here? Because I'm at least slightly familiar with the people in here and was interested in their thoughts.
I apologize if my post offended you in anyway, that was not the intent. Again the intent was to realize that all we have, is a gift.
Djness--I appreciate your honesty and understand where you're coming from. I've thought the same as you many times myself.
Many people here know my story--I was found in a cardboard box in a public place when I was about 3 days old in Seoul, Korea (hence the username.) I don't know anything about my birth mother, but I always envision her young and deeply troubled. There are no single mothers in Korea--the socially acceptable thing to do is to either abandon the child or kill it so that you do not disgrace your family.
If I would have had a way of talking to my mother back then, I would have told her, even from the womb, "Mama, it's ok. I understand. I know you're scared. You do what you need to do and God will take care of me either way. I still love you." And if she would have chosen her life over mine, so be it. The greatest love we can have is to lay down our life for another. If it would have been my life or hers, I often wish she would have chose her own. I do believe God would have made a fair judgment as to where He would have sent me.
As an adult, I was able to travel back to my orphanage and seeing all those kids waiting for families they'd probably never have kept me awake at night. Why God plucked me out of thousands, I have no idea, and it disturbs me greatly--a kind of "survivor's remorse", if you will.
I have gone through very hateful, rebellious stages in my life towards God. Who cares if Jesus died, I'd often think... I'm just one of gazillions of others and if I died today, it really wouldn't matter. If you have a huge lump of dough and tear off a small chunk, who even realizes that piece is missing? I still wrestle with these questions. Will God send me to heaven because I was raised in a Christian home and came to believe, but will He send all those kids I saw left behind to hell because they did not have that chance? I don't know.
To be honest, I have often gone through phases of not even caring about going to hell. What the hell, I would literally think. But then one day I heard a pastor say that hell is not just a place, but a condition. He said that he had no doubt that if you go to hell, the day will come when God puts you out of His mind forever, and chooses to forget that you even exist. I have also heard it said that you will never see another human being again, that it will be far beyond any maximum security isolation or segregation unit that exists here on earth.
THAT scared me. Sometimes I tell God, "Lord, you are my biggest obligation... but I don't think I really love you."
But the thought that I could never talk to God again and know that He hears me is what personally scares the literal hell out of me.
God bless you in your search, Djness. Keep asking your questions. And, if you should wish, ask God your questions above anyone else. If you can talk to anyone about it, you can talk to Him. I've said things to God that would literally freeze over my childhood church faster than a snowflake can fall to the ground, but for me, that's what I love about God. That good or bad, He listens to me (read the Psalms and prophets and you'll see that you can literally say anything to God, no matter how angry. Jeremiah said he wished he would have died before birth, that "my mother would have been my grave" because he was so frustrated with his calling. He was very angry that God wouldn't leave him alone. And even good people like David asked God to smash his enemies, making their wives widows and their children orphans, when we are told to "forgive, as God forgives us.")
I don't care what anyone says, that's pretty honest. Keep reaching, Djness. It's ok. Some of us are right there with you.
And Zao, no worries, we know you're heart, that you never intended any harm. Your posts are greatly appreciated for the thought you put into them, as well as the thoughts you stir up in the rest of us.
Many people here know my story--I was found in a cardboard box in a public place when I was about 3 days old in Seoul, Korea (hence the username.) I don't know anything about my birth mother, but I always envision her young and deeply troubled. There are no single mothers in Korea--the socially acceptable thing to do is to either abandon the child or kill it so that you do not disgrace your family.
If I would have had a way of talking to my mother back then, I would have told her, even from the womb, "Mama, it's ok. I understand. I know you're scared. You do what you need to do and God will take care of me either way. I still love you." And if she would have chosen her life over mine, so be it. The greatest love we can have is to lay down our life for another. If it would have been my life or hers, I often wish she would have chose her own. I do believe God would have made a fair judgment as to where He would have sent me.
As an adult, I was able to travel back to my orphanage and seeing all those kids waiting for families they'd probably never have kept me awake at night. Why God plucked me out of thousands, I have no idea, and it disturbs me greatly--a kind of "survivor's remorse", if you will.
I have gone through very hateful, rebellious stages in my life towards God. Who cares if Jesus died, I'd often think... I'm just one of gazillions of others and if I died today, it really wouldn't matter. If you have a huge lump of dough and tear off a small chunk, who even realizes that piece is missing? I still wrestle with these questions. Will God send me to heaven because I was raised in a Christian home and came to believe, but will He send all those kids I saw left behind to hell because they did not have that chance? I don't know.
To be honest, I have often gone through phases of not even caring about going to hell. What the hell, I would literally think. But then one day I heard a pastor say that hell is not just a place, but a condition. He said that he had no doubt that if you go to hell, the day will come when God puts you out of His mind forever, and chooses to forget that you even exist. I have also heard it said that you will never see another human being again, that it will be far beyond any maximum security isolation or segregation unit that exists here on earth.
THAT scared me. Sometimes I tell God, "Lord, you are my biggest obligation... but I don't think I really love you."
But the thought that I could never talk to God again and know that He hears me is what personally scares the literal hell out of me.
God bless you in your search, Djness. Keep asking your questions. And, if you should wish, ask God your questions above anyone else. If you can talk to anyone about it, you can talk to Him. I've said things to God that would literally freeze over my childhood church faster than a snowflake can fall to the ground, but for me, that's what I love about God. That good or bad, He listens to me (read the Psalms and prophets and you'll see that you can literally say anything to God, no matter how angry. Jeremiah said he wished he would have died before birth, that "my mother would have been my grave" because he was so frustrated with his calling. He was very angry that God wouldn't leave him alone. And even good people like David asked God to smash his enemies, making their wives widows and their children orphans, when we are told to "forgive, as God forgives us.")
I don't care what anyone says, that's pretty honest. Keep reaching, Djness. It's ok. Some of us are right there with you.
And Zao, no worries, we know you're heart, that you never intended any harm. Your posts are greatly appreciated for the thought you put into them, as well as the thoughts you stir up in the rest of us.
K
I sometimes wonder how much God appreciates our questions....I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that makes questions and gets frustrated and complains. Well I dont know if I should be ''glad'', but I guess it's part of human nature. Thanks for your post Seoul, I didn't know about your story. Just by reading your posts I can see you have a beautiful and inquisitive heart, and I love that combination
sure.......that's why it's called the present.......good message
yet
i wouldn't say we deserve hell.......but that's a trick question
one that says i didn't choose this life...which is a statement of death..
died for my sins....
this was passed to me.
he was the ultimate sacrifice....after warning them in the old to not sacrifice unto....idols.....and false worship...
which means.....they wanted him dead.....they forsaken the mother.....and.....now who should they worship?like unto thier meat offerings.
yet
i wouldn't say we deserve hell.......but that's a trick question
one that says i didn't choose this life...which is a statement of death..
died for my sins....
this was passed to me.
he was the ultimate sacrifice....after warning them in the old to not sacrifice unto....idols.....and false worship...
which means.....they wanted him dead.....they forsaken the mother.....and.....now who should they worship?like unto thier meat offerings.
H
I like it, but I don't quite get it. I thought that the truth was more like "We do not deserve Heaven" (A less humble statement though).
I thought that the ones that do come to Heaven get there because they did not deserve Hell. The reason why I think so is just because of the fact that Hell is eternal destruction... I find it hard to believe that certain people deserve that. Actually, I find it hard to believe that anyone deserve that.
I saw a program about a man who died and woke up again, and he had been to Hell. He said it was so horrible that he genuinely did not want any being to get there. Not even Hitler.
I thought that the ones that do come to Heaven get there because they did not deserve Hell. The reason why I think so is just because of the fact that Hell is eternal destruction... I find it hard to believe that certain people deserve that. Actually, I find it hard to believe that anyone deserve that.
I saw a program about a man who died and woke up again, and he had been to Hell. He said it was so horrible that he genuinely did not want any being to get there. Not even Hitler.
Z
Personally I believe there is a fine balance needed between grace and conviction. We are forgiven, if we don't accept it, we have it available, God loves us no matter what. At the same time those statements are to often used as a get out of jail free card. People use statements like that as an excuse to do what they want when they want how they want, even though in the book of romans it explicitly states just because we've been forgiven does not mean we should go on sinning.
Let me explain the context this statement was in. It was directed and spoken to a group of adults, and more specifically a group of adults who were taking advantage of God's grace, and were constantly focused on this frilly gospel of "no conviction, once your saved it's happy go lucky free time and let's forget anything bad exists because we have Jesus". What this pastor was doing was reminding those people that the bible does speak of God's wrath, and that we are all sinners. We look down at evil people in the bible with over 100 wives and big ego's, but are any of us looking at pornographic websites, and being selfish any better? We're not.
I don't believe God sends children to hell. I believe there is an age of reason we all come to, so I don't intend this to be used on kids by any means.
Hopefully that clarify's things a little.
Let me explain the context this statement was in. It was directed and spoken to a group of adults, and more specifically a group of adults who were taking advantage of God's grace, and were constantly focused on this frilly gospel of "no conviction, once your saved it's happy go lucky free time and let's forget anything bad exists because we have Jesus". What this pastor was doing was reminding those people that the bible does speak of God's wrath, and that we are all sinners. We look down at evil people in the bible with over 100 wives and big ego's, but are any of us looking at pornographic websites, and being selfish any better? We're not.
I don't believe God sends children to hell. I believe there is an age of reason we all come to, so I don't intend this to be used on kids by any means.
Hopefully that clarify's things a little.