Maturity

[AsifinPassing]

Hey everyone!

There's a lot to this, and my ideas have been developing over a long time...but I've decided to present the idea to you.
As a precursor, I'd like to quote a line from a MewithoutYou song 'A Glass Can Only Spill What It Contains'...

"I'm halfway listening to what she thinks she knows. We're like children dressing in our parents' clothes...Saying 'Nobody Knows Me..." If you'd like to listen: mewithoutYou - A Glass Can Only Spill What It Contains - YouTube

Now, as great a deal of 'nuggets' there are to pull from this song, I'd like to focus on this one. Over time, through study, by observation, and just in theory...I've come to wonder about the difference between an adult and a child.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:11 that, "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me." What are those things to be 'put behind'?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some say the difference between an adult and child is knowledge & experience which later lead to wisdom. Strange then, that those such as Solomon (and many others) were wise as children/young men. Also strange that many 'adults' seem to behave as children. One thing psychology teaches is the effect childhood has on our lives, and the repercussions of ignoring or not dealing with this fact.
[/FONT]
In my 24 years, I've seen many things. Now, in the grand scheme of things, I've little experience, but overall I could say enough has accumulated to at least formulate, debate, and experiment on...not that I'm a scientist per say. I'd like, however, to present you with this idea:

Are we really 'grown'? What difference can be sensed about who we are now as opposed to before? Could it be that in some (or many) ways, we are still children?

I've asked a few this before, and it always struck me as odd that several found it offensive. Are you so unstable as to get angry about being asked to analyze yourself? Though I'd argue with the hierarchy Maslow put self-actualization at the top. It's important to be reflective, and have the humility and wisdom to examine ourselves. (My argument is that the list keeps going after that.)

Curious that we use the language of being God's children, having child-like faith, and being a family. We should think about this. What does it look like to be a child? What does it look like to be a 'good' child? What does it look like to be a family? Many of us have had poor examples of this...some decent...some maybe exceptional, but all the same...we must look.

One of the things college does is try to break you from the 'mold' to which you've been cast. It breaks you down, so you may be built up again. Is what you believe really what you believe? Is what you believe really real? There are many such questions to ask which haunt, change, challenge, and--dare I say--help you on the journey to becoming who you are.

For those who haven't been asked, try it. For those who have, do you remember what you found?

Are we growing, my friends, or have we remained the same? Being a child often falls to ignorance...being child-like may be attributed to wisdom, but there's a long 'in between' time of learning, failing, growing, changing, struggling...A caterpillar becomes a butterfly only after struggling in the cocoon. What's your cocoon? Have you had one? Have you had many? Should you have another?

Ladies and Gentlemen, what I lift before you tonight(today) is the notion of change through growth. Is it enough to merely change in body? What of the mind? What of the heart? What of the spirit? Our thoughts, feelings, actions, words...all represent or flow forth from our combined being. Has that being matured? Should it still? Are we just children pretending to be what we're not? There's never a time to stop learning. There's never a time to stop growing. We are always becoming...the question is, what?

Your thoughts?

 

[MissCris]

My initial thoughts on this- what mentally separates adults from children?

-Finding someone/something that is more important than yourself. Someone/something that you truly put before your own wants/needs. A lot of people say they do this with their kids, their spouse, whatever, but if that were true, there'd be a lot less marriage problems and badly behaved kids, I suspect.

-The ability to fully understand that there can be very far-reaching consequences for your actions, not just immediate consequences (or none at all).

-Impulse control. Not just saying/doing whatever you feel like as soon as you think of it.

Those are just based off of my own experience.

 

[psychomom]

there certainly is a difference between being child-like (as we are called to be in Christ)
and child-ish--which should be put away with the former things.

it was also a distinction we made as parents with our children.
age appropriate behavior, whatever age we are.
í think this also applies to one's age as a Christian, no? (spiritually speaking)

 

[psychomom]

My initial thoughts on this- what mentally separates adults from children?

-Finding someone/something that is more important than yourself. Someone/something that you truly put before your own wants/needs. A lot of people say they do this with their kids, their spouse, whatever, but if that were true, there'd be a lot less marriage problems and badly behaved kids, I suspect.

-The ability to fully understand that there can be very far-reaching consequences for your actions, not just immediate consequences (or none at all).

-Impulse control. Not just saying/doing whatever you feel like as soon as you think of it.

Those are just based off of my own experience.

Cris, my Gram used to say that people grew up when they had children because
"you can only have so many babies in the house at one time."

not sayin' she was right(or wrong, in some cases!), but you reminded me of that.
so thanks for the fond memory.

 

[GRA]

Self-Awareness
Self-Control
Self-Reliance

Honesty
Integrity
Morality

Love
Compassion
Gentleness

Contentment

Godliness

 

[Tommy4Christ]

Hey everyone!

There's a lot to this, and my ideas have been developing over a long time...but I've decided to present the idea to you.
As a precursor, I'd like to quote a line from a MewithoutYou song 'A Glass Can Only Spill What It Contains'...

"I'm halfway listening to what she thinks she knows. We're like children dressing in our parents' clothes...Saying 'Nobody Knows Me..." If you'd like to listen: mewithoutYou - A Glass Can Only Spill What It Contains - YouTube

Now, as great a deal of 'nuggets' there are to pull from this song, I'd like to focus on this one. Over time, through study, by observation, and just in theory...I've come to wonder about the difference between an adult and a child.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:11 that, "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me." What are those things to be 'put behind'?

Some say the difference between an adult and child is knowledge & experience which later lead to wisdom. Strange then, that those such as Solomon (and many others) were wise as children/young men. Also strange that many 'adults' seem to behave as children. One thing psychology teaches is the effect childhood has on our lives, and the repercussions of ignoring or not dealing with this fact.

In my 24 years, I've seen many things. Now, in the grand scheme of things, I've little experience, but overall I could say enough has accumulated to at least formulate, debate, and experiment on...not that I'm a scientist per say. I'd like, however, to present you with this idea:

Are we really 'grown'? What difference can be sensed about who we are now as opposed to before? Could it be that in some (or many) ways, we are still children?

I've asked a few this before, and it always struck me as odd that several found it offensive. Are you so unstable as to get angry about being asked to analyze yourself? Though I'd argue with the hierarchy Maslow put self-actualization at the top. It's important to be reflective, and have the humility and wisdom to examine ourselves. (My argument is that the list keeps going after that.)

Curious that we use the language of being God's children, having child-like faith, and being a family. We should think about this. What does it look like to be a child? What does it look like to be a 'good' child? What does it look like to be a family? Many of us have had poor examples of this...some decent...some maybe exceptional, but all the same...we must look.

One of the things college does is try to break you from the 'mold' to which you've been cast. It breaks you down, so you may be built up again. Is what you believe really what you believe? Is what you believe really real? There are many such questions to ask which haunt, change, challenge, and--dare I say--help you on the journey to becoming who you are.

For those who haven't been asked, try it. For those who have, do you remember what you found?

Are we growing, my friends, or have we remained the same? Being a child often falls to ignorance...being child-like may be attributed to wisdom, but there's a long 'in between' time of learning, failing, growing, changing, struggling...A caterpillar becomes a butterfly only after struggling in the cocoon. What's your cocoon? Have you had one? Have you had many? Should you have another?

Ladies and Gentlemen, what I lift before you tonight(today) is the notion of change through growth. Is it enough to merely change in body? What of the mind? What of the heart? What of the spirit? Our thoughts, feelings, actions, words...all represent or flow forth from our combined being. Has that being matured? Should it still? Are we just children pretending to be what we're not? There's never a time to stop learning. There's never a time to stop growing. We are always becoming...the question is, what?

Your thoughts?

As long as you are growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, and are walking a walk worthy of your calling. Growing in the Lord requires much dicipline, perserverance, and a heart that has been made pure through the repentance process.

Relationships are important also, but not to replace the truth, as many who are under the strong delusion teach tolorance, and a universal way to the cross, but Jesus never taught this! In fact if you do preach the truth you will be despised, unpopular and hated, trust me I know the feeling, but if you compromise you will be the life of the party, and all your church friends will adore you!

They will not endure sound doctrine!
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
I am seeing this powerful warning from the Lord through His beloved servant Timothy, coming into fruition today! The time has come and has been here for quite a while I am afraid, where the professing Christian world will NOT endure sound doctrine, nor even seek it with all their heart and soul as commanded. They will seek out their worldly pleasures, pastimes, and worst of all their favorite bible pundit that tell them what they want to hear, and NOT what can transform their souls into true saints for God!
They form groups, who love to cast dispersions on the few who love them enough to give them the truth, the bitter truth, which is very difficult for them to swallow yet alone digest in their minds that has been polluted by the ways of the world, and filling their itching ears with many lies and errors telling them that they are soundly saved, while they still wallow in sin, worldliness and disobedience!
They have totally turned from the truth, and hate any that is given to them, but will turn on to all the fables and lies being sold today, they are goats being led to the slaughter, as they think they are at peace with God, when in reality they are dead to Him and His word!
They refuse to come out and be separate, but instead encourage others who are searching to join them in their games, refuse to give them truth, because they cannot give them what they do not possess!
But the few who bring them the harsh truth are despised, and this is a tale tale sign what mindset they are in as they snarl, and cast dispersions on the bearers of truth, calling them names, while they themselves are still carnal sold under sin!
So this shows me how much they love their worldly ways and pet sins, where any truth that can transform their souls is cast out the door along with any discernment, conviction or humility to receive the implanted word that can save them from their demise!
I praise God for the few who can see through this strong delusion God promised to send to those who do not love the truth, and are coming out of the spirit of error into the spirit of truth, accepting the harsh reality that the few of the few will be saved as predicted by Jesus Himself!
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Tommy

 

[Powemm]

very insightful topic .. And Tommy, as alway thank you for
Being a lamppost pointing the way steadfast back to Christ .. you are a blessing!!
Yes I have looked back.. I've thanked christ for bearing the scars of the worlds sins.. At age three to five when I should have been playing princess and having tea parties . I was rather waking through the valley of the shadow of death in christs arms ..
in foster care abused and beaten, broken bones , hair pulled out among other things , I now have a very clear understanding and a "knowing" of what christ went through for Me... I was even held down in a garage in a crucifixion style way .. Both arms held out and bound down.. As well as my legs straightness out and crossed at the feet .. It was a that time I thought I was really going to die while being smothered ..this was in foster care.. I consider every bit of it an absolute privelafe an consider it all gain as it all has brought me to a very deep and very intimate relationship in Christ .. God brought me to a place in His own suffering that I wouldn't trade it if I could today .. I thank god for that little girl for enduring what I now carry as a charm in my life.. (God) I didn't do it willingly, Christ did .. He gave up His life while I fought to keep Mine..I don't think we ever mature until we take a look back and fully examine and somehow relate to Go in all of it ..Looking at a lot of it from Hos perspective .. I would have never been able to move forward had I not..Nor do I believe I would have been healed from it .. But none of this happened into I came I to a relationship with Him. but by the grace of God he revealed much of who he is and still does in occurrences and things still going on .. Continually relating to Him daily on all basis as my father in Heaven
And as he continually relates to who is in now in me .. .. I know that will never stop . I know I will never stop learning even to the point of this body wasting away and the spirit of His son being delivered once again as a child into the rightful hands of my one true father .. Becoming completely whole as one with and in Him. I walk towards Him everyday less of who I am and more of who He is .. transforming more and more into the image of who I was in the beginning ..

 

[AsifinPassing]

Thank you for sharing, everyone! These are some great responses!

My initial thoughts on this- what mentally separates adults from children?

-Finding someone/something that is more important than yourself. Someone/something that you truly put before your own wants/needs. A lot of people say they do this with their kids, their spouse, whatever, but if that were true, there'd be a lot less marriage problems and badly behaved kids, I suspect.

-The ability to fully understand that there can be very far-reaching consequences for your actions, not just immediate consequences (or none at all).

-Impulse control. Not just saying/doing whatever you feel like as soon as you think of it.

Those are just based off of my own experience.

I hear you on this, Cris. Time management/priorities, conviction, impulse control...these are all adult qualities, and to a large extent 'mental' differences. An interesting thing, though, is that I've known many 'children' who possessed these qualities and 'adults' who didn't.

It makes me curious...I mean, I'm not trying to vie for anything in particular here, but seemingly there are several children who act like adults and make adult decisions. Likewise, I find many adults which behave childishly, and make childish decisions. I wonder then, more than physical and mental change, what differentiates a child from an adult?

there certainly is a difference between being child-like (as we are called to be in Christ)
and child-ish--which should be put away with the former things.

it was also a distinction we made as parents with our children.
age appropriate behavior, whatever age we are.
í think this also applies to one's age as a Christian, no? (spiritually speaking)

Definitely, psychomom. I hear you on that. Interesting though...think about that difference. Being child-like and child-ish both largely pertain to thinking, behavior, and appearance. What if the role reversed, and children acted adult-like? Think about their behavior, actions, thoughts...If, let's say, a 14-year-old, acted with the wisdom, maturity, and overall behavior of a 50-year-old...would you consider him an adult? Mostly, the answer is 'no'. Legally, physically, and in argueable other ways...he's (or she) is still a child.

Similarly, if an adult behaves as a child, that adult isn't seen as a child, but as an adult. It's interesting. Could it be that our perceptions are so set on physical attributes that we miss the deeper realities of what makes someone a child or an adult?

Self-Awareness
Self-Control
Self-Reliance

Honesty
Integrity
Morality

Love
Compassion
Gentleness

Contentment

Godliness

Well, GRA, I can certainly agree with you on this list. While I wouldn't define it as the definition of being an 'adult' because these qualities can be possessed by any age/time of life, I do agree that they hold a difference factor.

Curious though...what of adults or children who aren't Christian? I know many of us as Christians argue that living as Christ is the difference of maturity, but on the contrary, I've met several people who acted both very mature or childish regardless of their religious stances. Could it be that while these things are part of the road to being a man of God, they are separate from the distinction of manhood?

Again, great responses everyone!! I'll try to reply to next few now, so sorry if it becomes a double post. I've only seem to be able to multi-quote 3 people at a time for some reason...

 

[AsifinPassing]

As long as you are growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, and are walking a walk worthy of your calling. Growing in the Lord requires much dicipline, perserverance, and a heart that has been made pure through the repentance process.

Relationships are important also, but not to replace the truth, as many who are under the strong delusion teach tolorance, and a universal way to the cross, but Jesus never taught this! In fact if you do preach the truth you will be despised, unpopular and hated, trust me I know the feeling, but if you compromise you will be the life of the party, and all your church friends will adore you!

They will not endure sound doctrine!
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
I am seeing this powerful warning from the Lord through His beloved servant Timothy, coming into fruition today! The time has come and has been here for quite a while I am afraid, where the professing Christian world will NOT endure sound doctrine, nor even seek it with all their heart and soul as commanded. They will seek out their worldly pleasures, pastimes, and worst of all their favorite bible pundit that tell them what they want to hear, and NOT what can transform their souls into true saints for God!
They form groups, who love to cast dispersions on the few who love them enough to give them the truth, the bitter truth, which is very difficult for them to swallow yet alone digest in their minds that has been polluted by the ways of the world, and filling their itching ears with many lies and errors telling them that they are soundly saved, while they still wallow in sin, worldliness and disobedience!
They have totally turned from the truth, and hate any that is given to them, but will turn on to all the fables and lies being sold today, they are goats being led to the slaughter, as they think they are at peace with God, when in reality they are dead to Him and His word!
They refuse to come out and be separate, but instead encourage others who are searching to join them in their games, refuse to give them truth, because they cannot give them what they do not possess!
But the few who bring them the harsh truth are despised, and this is a tale tale sign what mindset they are in as they snarl, and cast dispersions on the bearers of truth, calling them names, while they themselves are still carnal sold under sin!
So this shows me how much they love their worldly ways and pet sins, where any truth that can transform their souls is cast out the door along with any discernment, conviction or humility to receive the implanted word that can save them from their demise!
I praise God for the few who can see through this strong delusion God promised to send to those who do not love the truth, and are coming out of the spirit of error into the spirit of truth, accepting the harsh reality that the few of the few will be saved as predicted by Jesus Himself!
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Tommy

Hey Tommy! Thank you for responding, bud.

It's interesting, and I feel, pretty good advice and insight to distinguishing different doctrinal teachings. Granted, there's more to any one of these topics than any of us could post, but nonetheless, I feel you're trying to sincerely admonish others based on your understanding and convictions.

That said, as appreciate as your post is, I'm curious as to what you think about the topic of distinguishing between being a child and adult. While there is always much way to grow in Christ (as in all things), is He the difference between what makes one mature, or can maturity exist even apart from Him?

I say this not in a way to suggest we should ever be apart from Christ, but merely in interest for the reality of things. What is to be a child? What is to be an adult (man or woman)? Why do we see things this way? Could it be than some adults are really more like children, and event that some children forgo their youth into some version of adulthood?

What do you think, man? I'd be interested to know...

very insightful topic .. And Tommy, as alway thank you for
Being a lamppost pointing the way steadfast back to Christ .. you are a blessing!!
Yes I have looked back.. I've thanked christ for bearing the scars of the worlds sins.. At age three to five when I should have been playing princess and having tea parties . I was rather waking through the valley of the shadow of death in christs arms ..
in foster care abused and beaten, broken bones , hair pulled out among other things , I now have a very clear understanding and a "knowing" of what christ went through for Me... I was even held down in a garage in a crucifixion style way .. Both arms held out and bound down.. As well as my legs straightness out and crossed at the feet .. It was a that time I thought I was really going to die while being smothered ..this was in foster care.. I consider every bit of it an absolute privelafe an consider it all gain as it all has brought me to a very deep and very intimate relationship in Christ .. God brought me to a place in His own suffering that I wouldn't trade it if I could today .. I thank god for that little girl for enduring what I now carry as a charm in my life.. (God) I didn't do it willingly, Christ did .. He gave up His life while I fought to keep Mine..I don't think we ever mature until we take a look back and fully examine and somehow relate to Go in all of it ..Looking at a lot of it from Hos perspective .. I would have never been able to move forward had I not..Nor do I believe I would have been healed from it .. But none of this happened into I came I to a relationship with Him. but by the grace of God he revealed much of who he is and still does in occurrences and things still going on .. Continually relating to Him daily on all basis as my father in Heaven
And as he continually relates to who is in now in me .. .. I know that will never stop . I know I will never stop learning even to the point of this body wasting away and the spirit of His son being delivered once again as a child into the rightful hands of my one true father .. Becoming completely whole as one with and in Him. I walk towards Him everyday less of who I am and more of who He is .. transforming more and more into the image of who I was in the beginning ..

Thank you, Powemm! As always, I appreciate your responses, and also your honest and insight into your own life within the larger picture of life in general.

I'm sorry for your struggles, but also grateful to hear of your overcoming with Christ. Many argue that it's our experiences and decisions which distinguish us in any category, be it adulthood or even faith. Praise be to God that brought you through, as I know He does for many, and that you continue to grow in him.

What do you think, though, of the differences between who were and are now in a maturity basis? How have your outlooks, decisions, and perhaps even demeanor changed? Do believe that God may have brought you to this solely by influence, or perhaps even in your very design?


Again, thank you everyone! Good convo...good convo!

 

[GRA]

Self-Awareness
Self-Control
Self-Reliance

Honesty
Integrity
Morality

Love
Compassion
Gentleness

Contentment

Godliness

Well, GRA, I can certainly agree with you on this list. While I wouldn't define it as the definition of being an 'adult' because these qualities can be possessed by any age/time of life, I do agree that they hold a difference factor.

Curious though...what of adults or children who aren't Christian? I know many of us as Christians argue that living as Christ is the difference of maturity, but on the contrary, I've met several people who acted both very mature or childish regardless of their religious stances. Could it be that while these things are part of the road to being a man of God, they are separate from the distinction of manhood?

The title of the thread is 'Maturity'.

These things represent a "measure" of maturity.

The more of these things you "possess" (extent or depth of each) - the more mature you are.

These things are a part of the "out-working" or "result" of maturity. Borrowing from the familiar phrase 'fruit of the spirit', these things could perhaps be [items in a list that is] called the 'fruit of maturity'...

(maturity at whatever age)

They also represent 'maturity of the mind', 'maturity of the heart', ... 'Godliness' is the only one in the list that would apply specifically to 'spiritual maturity' - the others apply to the mind, the heart, ...

This is how / why you can have the situation among different people that you describe. Each item in the list represents a different 'kind' or 'type' of maturity. The combination of "more or less" of each 'kind' / 'type' of maturity for one person can differ [quite a bit] from another person - so, people can be very different in that regard...