L.O.V.E. and P.A.I.N. are Both 4-Letter Words... Why Do They Feel Interchangeable?

[seoulsearch]

Hey Everyone,

Have you ever noticed that loving someone usually involves a lot of pain? If you truly love someone, you are going to go through painful times with them. God is certainly not an exception, but rather, a role model. God is LOVE, but I can't imagine how much pain He must have felt over His Son's suffering and death, as well as the pain of watching sin ruin His once-perfect creation every day that passes by. And He does this and feels this all because He loves us.

One of my pet peeves is the romanticized notion of falling in love and saying, "I'll NEVER hurt you." If you believe that, you will find that it will eventually feel like a lie. Love is messy and often brutal. I may be wrong in saying this, but love in this life always involves pain to a certain degree. If this is true, then how much pain is acceptable? How do you tell the difference between "normal" pain vs. unhealthy or abusive pain that may mean leaving the relationship?

Something I have been struggling with is that, of the people I've truly bonded with and loved, our common ground for bonding was always pain. Please allow me to explain: the people I am closest to have been with me for a long time. We bonded over secrets, hurts, devastations, people leaving us, abuses, insecurities. What drew us close and bonded us for life... was a love for each other that was birthed through extreme pain. (Broken people have sharp edges--sometimes, that pain was aimed at each other.)

For a long time, I was afraid to let go of some of my pain because I thought to myself, it's all I've known, so who would I be without it? Pain for me was a shield and yet my own internal weapon of mass destruction towards myself all at the same time. But God stopped giving me many choices in some areas and has literally put me through situations that forced me to deal with and leave behind some of that pain. I was afraid. You "know" healing is good for you but the process looks way too scary. It's taken A LOT... But even I have to admit... Life is better. Clearer. Happier. And of course, I am far from being 100%, but I am forever grateful for what God has done.

The thing is, I've also noticed a strange side effect. Since these healings have taken place... I've never fallen in love. And while I've made some wonderful friends... I've never bonded with them as closely or in the way I did when I was younger and was afraid, full of what I felt were my own secrets, and found a precious few to talk to about them who could still accept me as I was.

I ask myself, am I only capable of true love if I have some sort of terrible pain to share with someone? Because it was always that feeling of relief and a look of understanding instead of rejection that made me feel close to someone (which I interpreted as love.) I still love people. But not in the way I did when I had something I felt was horribly painful to share (and they had something to share with me) and we came to love each other through mutual suffering.

I wonder, does this mean I will never fall in love again unless I take on new pains to bond over with others?

I realize all of this might sound crazy... But what have your experiences been, and how do you feel about love vs. pain? Does love always involve pain? How much pain is acceptable before you cut the relationship off? Have you ever felt like the more pain you feel over someone, the more you must love them? Do you get bored with someone you don't feel any pain over, because it doesn't feel like love unless you're hurting over them in some way? And what kinds of things personally bond you to someone else very closely? What do you share and do that blossoms into mutual love and affection, whether in friendships or romance?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[cinder]

Shared pain can be an incredibly strong bond; partly because even the vulnerability we show in sharing our pain is much greater than the vulnerability we show in sharing our joys. It's nice to have someone who can understand our messed up bits and not have to explain them. Similarly love also makes us vulnerable, we let people in more than we usually do. On the other hand, I'd question how healthy a relationship was that was built only on shared pain. It would be kind of like American history where the founding fathers finally all agreed it was "good" to be free from British rule, but once independence was achieved became bitter political opponents because they could not agree on what "good" government was.

I have a lot of objections to the idea that love is something you fall into and have no control over but can save that for another thread sometime. However, I would suggest that maybe not having the feelings you associate with falling in love could be a good thing. Maybe part of your healing is that you are no longer as needy as you once were or that you own identity and self worth are more solid than when it seemed like all you had was your pain. This is all pure speculation since I don't know you well, but just some very generic top level thoughts on the subject.

Now off to contemplate how much backlash I might get by posting a thread on the myth of falling in love.

 

[Desdichado]

Love necessitates understanding, total understanding requires vulnerability. Vulnerability mishandled causes pain. And so it goes.

 

[DarlinNadia]

I question if love .. at least Agape Love.. is interchangeable with Pain. I feel agape love has nothing to do with myself, but everything to do with the other person

[h=1]1 Corinthians 13:4-8 The Way of Love 13
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;[b] 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things,endures all things. 8 Love never ends.[/h]if I focus on 13:7 it actually releases the other person from whatever pain they may attempt to or even accidentally cause. I consider my kids. No matter what they do, I will still love and support them. I try very hard to follow God's agape love when it comes to my kids and my friends and I try really hard to follow it with my enemies but I fall short sometimes, but this is where forgiveness fits in.

Pain focuses on the self... how love has affected *me* ... if I turn this focus on myself... taking it inward I might feel I haven't received nearly what I have given out. I might feel forgotten or taken advantage of...If I look around and notice i'm all alone.. then the pain sets in.

I have learned to immediately put my focus back on Jesus and the "pain" diminishes because I'm not looking at the storm around me or lack of love I'm receiving. It reminds me of when Peter stepped out of the boat... He WAS walking on water until he took his eyes of Jesus .. it was at that time he began to sink.

Cartoon Characters run off cliffs all the time, it isn't until they look down that they drop from the sky.

 

[Godslonelyhero]

sometimes all it takes is a fresh outlook on things, pain is a place we have all been at one time or another, but our lord went through much more anguish than we ever will..thanks for posting this!

 

[Man7377]

Hey L.O.V.E and P.A.I.N;

L.O.V.E = E.V.O.L

P.A.I.N = G.A.I.N

thats Logic...

c u ..

 

[Man7377]

Hey All;

IF any one is Stuck in Cross Roads of Life let me know.

you got a Solution Provider a Good Samaritan here now...

byeee now c u soon..

 

[Man7377]

Bak in my homeland now

 

[djness]

Shared pain can be an incredibly strong bond; partly because even the vulnerability we show in sharing our pain is much greater than the vulnerability we show in sharing our joys. It's nice to have someone who can understand our messed up bits and not have to explain them. Similarly love also makes us vulnerable, we let people in more than we usually do. On the other hand, I'd question how healthy a relationship was that was built only on shared pain. It would be kind of like American history where the founding fathers finally all agreed it was "good" to be free from British rule, but once independence was achieved became bitter political opponents because they could not agree on what "good" government was.

I have a lot of objections to the idea that love is something you fall into and have no control over but can save that for another thread sometime. However, I would suggest that maybe not having the feelings you associate with falling in love could be a good thing. Maybe part of your healing is that you are no longer as needy as you once were or that you own identity and self worth are more solid than when it seemed like all you had was your pain. This is all pure speculation since I don't know you well, but just some very generic top level thoughts on the subject.

Now off to contemplate how much backlash I might get by posting a thread on the myth of falling in love.

^This lady gets it.

 

[just_monicat]

assuming i'm following your point, i can certainly understand some of what you're saying.

when i've been in pain or what i will call a "low time" in my life, who i'm attracted to, or rather, who is acceptable to me, changes radically. after all, it's hard to be with someone who is a constant reminder of where you aren't. so i was drawn to guys who were somewhat inappropriate but provided, first and foremost, pleasant distraction from my circumstances.

that's not to say you can't cover emotional ground and grow with these people, because as you said, going through trials certainly does bond people together, and empirical evidence certainly supports that. but you're incredibly limited. and so you have this messy emotional connection with someone who you quickly outgrow when your circumstances change.

i went through a pretty traumatic event almost 10 years ago, and in the year or so afterwards, i was swallowed by fear. so what did i do? i started spending all my time with a guy who was rather intimidating in appearance and then i seldom left his side in public. he was a total nightmare in some ways, but he fulfilled what i was (subconsciously) seeking at the time - a sense of safety with a guy that i (probably deep down knew) would never get serious about.

seldom do i think such "misery loves company" relationships are that simple to understand, but in my case, it served me to see just how much we are attracted, can even love those who we perceive we need or fulfill for us something missing in our lives. even my friendships during that time were very different than they are today.

also, i think when you've been through a lot, you can become very comfortable with the chaos and drama. that can feel very normal. if you don't heal or grow from that, it's easy to find peaceful, nurturing relationships as far less fulfilling than the emotional rides that roller coaster relationships offer. chaos is normal. pain is normal. grief is normal, and so on. i think that it's something those with a difficult background have to be very aware of. i am related to people who will manufacture drama when life is too quiet (or so it appears).

when you're healthy and content, things shift a bit, or they have for me. i don't need a relationship to rescue, protect me or fix something that's overtly broken. there's no agenda, or self-protecting -- just honesty and and the expectation of acceptance.

but on the downside, there's a LOT of needy people looking for company in their neediness and misery, who aren't really all that interested in personal growth and the pursuit of truth and purity in their life. a lot of people talk a good game, but just aren't there.

growing up isn't for the faint of heart.

 

[seoulsearch]

I really appreciate everyone sharing and hope you will continue to do so.

To try to clarify my own point of view, I'm thinking of 3 friends in particular who have been in my life for very long periods of time (a decade or two.) Some of the things I'm thinking about are when Friend X and I were both afraid of a certain authority figure at school; the fact that we were always together probably spared us from any harm.

I have struggled with depression since childhood and there was one time, in my 30's, when I was having a particular rough bout and Friend Y came and got me. It was one of those days you wouldn't want to be caught outside with cold, blustery winds... But she took me to a park and we walked and swung on the swing set until my head cleared. She also packed a good majority of my things for me when I was about to move and going through some major life changes. During that time I was so panicked that it was hard for me make it through the days. We had both been through a lot of stuff, and we tried our best to take care of each other.

I also used to deal with depression through unhealthy expressions of self-injury, and Friend Z worked with me extensively for a long time over that even though his confrontations often resulted in us yelling at each other. He called me one time and I kept slamming down the phone but he kept persisting!!! His constant support and steadfast prayers were a direct reason as to why I stopped all those things, which I intend to write another thread about someday.

I bonded with these people in my moments of extreme pain, and for some reason, they stuck with me--after all these years, we've seen each other through the growing pains of adolescence and young adulthood into more stable and healthier season in our lives. But yes, initially... we had a foundation of extreme pain, and sometimes hurt each other because of it.

I usually make friends fairly easily... But I've never bonded with anyone else the way I have with them... partially because the new friends I've made have never seen me through such painful situations. Some share their pain with me and tell me they feel a strong bonding to me... But because I don't have anything particularly painful to share (because I'm trying to comfort them in their pain but not vice versa, since I'm don't have as much pain to share with them), I find myself not feeling as bonded to them as they may feel to me.

Does anyone else experience this?

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

I've definitely bonded with people more strongly due to sharing pain with them. There are several people who went through all of the hard stuff with me years ago, and we are all very close friends now. They saw me at my darkest, my most desperate, my most vulnerable, and loved me. I saw them at their most protective and compassionate, and loved them back. Being "REAL" with each other breaks down barriers and moves us forward as friends in ways that nothing else can.

 

[ji]

Hey Everyone,

Have you ever noticed that loving someone usually involves a lot of pain? If you truly love someone, you are going to go through painful times with them. God is certainly not an exception, but rather, a role model. God is LOVE, but I can't imagine how much pain He must have felt over His Son's suffering and death, as well as the pain of watching sin ruin His once-perfect creation every day that passes by. And He does this and feels this all because He loves us.

One of my pet peeves is the romanticized notion of falling in love and saying, "I'll NEVER hurt you." If you believe that, you will find that it will eventually feel like a lie. Love is messy and often brutal. I may be wrong in saying this, but love in this life always involves pain to a certain degree. If this is true, then how much pain is acceptable? How do you tell the difference between "normal" pain vs. unhealthy or abusive pain that may mean leaving the relationship?

Something I have been struggling with is that, of the people I've truly bonded with and loved, our common ground for bonding was always pain. Please allow me to explain: the people I am closest to have been with me for a long time. We bonded over secrets, hurts, devastations, people leaving us, abuses, insecurities. What drew us close and bonded us for life... was a love for each other that was birthed through extreme pain. (Broken people have sharp edges--sometimes, that pain was aimed at each other.)

For a long time, I was afraid to let go of some of my pain because I thought to myself, it's all I've known, so who would I be without it? Pain for me was a shield and yet my own internal weapon of mass destruction towards myself all at the same time. But God stopped giving me many choices in some areas and has literally put me through situations that forced me to deal with and leave behind some of that pain. I was afraid. You "know" healing is good for you but the process looks way too scary. It's taken A LOT... But even I have to admit... Life is better. Clearer. Happier. And of course, I am far from being 100%, but I am forever grateful for what God has done.

The thing is, I've also noticed a strange side effect. Since these healings have taken place... I've never fallen in love. And while I've made some wonderful friends... I've never bonded with them as closely or in the way I did when I was younger and was afraid, full of what I felt were my own secrets, and found a precious few to talk to about them who could still accept me as I was.

I ask myself, am I only capable of true love if I have some sort of terrible pain to share with someone? Because it was always that feeling of relief and a look of understanding instead of rejection that made me feel close to someone (which I interpreted as love.) I still love people. But not in the way I did when I had something I felt was horribly painful to share (and they had something to share with me) and we came to love each other through mutual suffering.

I wonder, does this mean I will never fall in love again unless I take on new pains to bond over with others?

I realize all of this might sound crazy... But what have your experiences been, and how do you feel about love vs. pain? Does love always involve pain? How much pain is acceptable before you cut the relationship off? Have you ever felt like the more pain you feel over someone, the more you must love them? Do you get bored with someone you don't feel any pain over, because it doesn't feel like love unless you're hurting over them in some way? And what kinds of things personally bond you to someone else very closely? What do you share and do that blossoms into mutual love and affection, whether in friendships or romance?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

1 Corinth 10:13 KJV
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]When it reaches beyond that limit,its either time to Go to Homeland or God's Presence is going to manifest in one way or other to solve the situation.That's Love in Painful situations.

A Pregnant woman who is Eager to see her Baby doesn't care about the pain and sufferings to bring the Baby to this world,nor does her Loving husband care about the frantic situations he has to go through to finally hold his Child in his arms.

There is Love in Pain....sometimes we are not able to see it even as Christians.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]

 

[ji]

I really appreciate everyone sharing and hope you will continue to do so.

To try to clarify my own point of view, I'm thinking of 3 friends in particular who have been in my life for very long periods of time (a decade or two.) Some of the things I'm thinking about are when Friend X and I were both afraid of a certain authority figure at school; the fact that we were always together probably spared us from any harm.

I have struggled with depression since childhood and there was one time, in my 30's, when I was having a particular rough bout and Friend Y came and got me. It was one of those days you wouldn't want to be caught outside with cold, blustery winds... But she took me to a park and we walked and swung on the swing set until my head cleared. She also packed a good majority of my things for me when I was about to move and going through some major life changes. During that time I was so panicked that it was hard for me make it through the days. We had both been through a lot of stuff, and we tried our best to take care of each other.

I also used to deal with depression through unhealthy expressions of self-injury, and Friend Z worked with me extensively for a long time over that even though his confrontations often resulted in us yelling at each other. He called me one time and I kept slamming down the phone but he kept persisting!!! His constant support and steadfast prayers were a direct reason as to why I stopped all those things, which I intend to write another thread about someday.

I bonded with these people in my moments of extreme pain, and for some reason, they stuck with me--after all these years, we've seen each other through the growing pains of adolescence and young adulthood into more stable and healthier season in our lives. But yes, initially... we had a foundation of extreme pain, and sometimes hurt each other because of it.

I usually make friends fairly easily... But I've never bonded with anyone else the way I have with them... partially because the new friends I've made have never seen me through such painful situations. Some share their pain with me and tell me they feel a strong bonding to me... But because I don't have anything particularly painful to share (because I'm trying to comfort them in their pain but not vice versa, since I'm don't have as much pain to share with them), I find myself not feeling as bonded to them as they may feel to me.

Does anyone else experience this?

If you live in this world,there is a MUST pain one way or the other.But with Christ(Battle Crusher) we have Victory!
Jehovah Nissi!

worldly people don't have that Revelation nor do they want Him.
So going through the narrow road will have reflections of sorrows.
Being sober minded is a Blessing,its God Given when we face it as Christians.

If Christianity was 'worldly-comfy',then we never Learn or Grow to the Perfection of Christ.

God Bless