Does God control our mistakes?

[GreatScott]

I have come to believe that God is ultimately in control of my life in a very detailed and intimate way. However, I also understand that I have free will and that I am responsible for my decisions. This idea, along with many other things that have a balance of which there is no black and white answer, I would like to gain more knowledge on. I have made many mistakes in my life which have caused me a great deal of trouble. Some of them have seemingly revealed themselves to have some sort of positive effect, and some of them seem to only bring more heartache and trouble, continually. My question is very specific: Does God control these mistakes and their outcomes despite my free will? I will cite one verse that comes to mind just as a starting point for discussion. Proverbs 16:9 says, "The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps."

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Welcome to the age old debate on determinism, freewill, and moral responsibility.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Do you know what divine providence is? It means God is completely sovereign, that He is in complete control of everything. This includes the whole universe (Psalm 103:19), the physical world (Matthew 5:45), the affairs of nations (Psalm 66:7), human birth and destiny (Galatians 1:15), human successes and failures (Luke 1:52), and the protection of His people (Psalm 4:8).

This means there is no such thing as 'chance' and 'fate'. God has a divine will that is in set motion, we are in it, even our decisions.

There is no free will, a lot churches teach that there is but the bible specifically says we are either slaves to sin or slaves to God (Christ).

Wait but don't we have choices? Are we robots?

Answer: No, we aren't robots, this is not what it is teaching, rather God made us with the responsibility as free moral agents (not quite the same as free will). This doctrine in the bible teaches that God's will and plan in this existence cannot and will not be thwarted by man's decisions, as also the rest of creation and sin and evil.

We have the ability to disobey and to obey God. We still make choices. Free will is not the same thing just to let you know.

Judas in an example, even though by his own decisions he chose to betray Jesus, but this was ordained to happen so that Jesus would be crucified for our sins.

I do not condemn anyone who believes different, this is a perspective you can study on. It's very awesome! It helps us understand God's sovereignty more.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

There's no debate. There's freewill. I myself have made mistakes as has all people, all have come short except for Jesus.

 

[lil_christian]

I have come to believe that God is ultimately in control of my life in a very detailed and intimate way. However, I also understand that I have free will and that I am responsible for my decisions. This idea, along with many other things that have a balance of which there is no black and white answer, I would like to gain more knowledge on. I have made many mistakes in my life which have caused me a great deal of trouble. Some of them have seemingly revealed themselves to have some sort of positive effect, and some of them seem to only bring more heartache and trouble, continually. My question is very specific: Does God control these mistakes and their outcomes despite my free will? I will cite one verse that comes to mind just as a starting point for discussion. Proverbs 16:9 says, "The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps."

 

[cinder]

Nobody knows.

I think the word control messes us up a lot. God made us creatures who have a moral capacity and can choose and plan. God also knows what is going to happen before it happens (or else prophecy would be impossible and we would have much less reason to trust him) and he doesn't always stop it. One illustration that I've heard about God's being in control is that of an author versus a king. A king can make laws, encourage his people to do certain things, and run the country, but the citizens are still responsible for their day to day choices. An author on the other hand, scripts every moment , every occurrence in all of the characters' lives, they do what the author decides. Period.

As far as mistakes, the best practical theology I've ever heard about that is that we need to believe that Romans 8:28 (God works all things for our good) is as applicable to mistakes as it is to tragedies that befall us. So God brings good out of our mistakes. Joseph telling his brothers that he had had dreams where he ruled over them might have been a mistake, but God made things turn out well for Joseph in spite of that. Similarly Peter's many mistakes didn't stop God from using him.

Sometimes we want to figure everything out when it's too big for our minds to understand. Sometimes the question we really need to ask God is simply, "What should I do now to live a godly life that honors you?" What does the Lord require of you but to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God (Micah 6:8)

 

[Desdichado]

Welcome to the age old debate on determinism, freewill, and moral responsibility.

Indeed. Sometimes it is not worth trying to understand things we men are unequipped to grasp exhaustively.

What can be known is that these factors exist and we are to navigate life accordingly.

There's no debate. There's freewill. I myself have made mistakes as has all people, all have come short except for Jesus.

No debate? Then I am not a dwarf! My Father will rejoice to hear it.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Indeed. Sometimes it is not worth trying to understand things we men are unequipped to grasp exhaustively.

What can be known is that these factors exist and we are to navigate life accordingly.



No debate? Then I am not a dwarf! My Father will rejoice to hear it.

View attachment 77289

Indeed ye are not a dwarf for ye are a Man.

There is Freewill, but that implies good and evil. God doesn't control our mistakes, but he can forgive. Our mistakes occur because of our own faults.

 

[fellowsheep]

This free ebook in pdf addresses that topic God's Tests - Shepherd Serve

Indeed ye are not a dwarf for ye are a Man.

There is Freewill, but that implies good and evil. God doesn't control our mistakes, but he can forgive. Our mistakes occur because of our own faults.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

"DETERMINISM. Most discussions of determinism are bedeviled by confusion between several different uses of the term.

1. In science it stands strictly for the hypothesis that the form of every physical event is determined uniquely by the conjunction of events preceding it. Science attempts to discover the pattern of interdependence and express it in ‘laws’. Note that this hypothesis does not necessarily imply that all events are predictable-by-us, nor even that they are predictable-for-us (see below). It is also consistent with (but distinct from) the biblical theistic doctrine that every physical event depends on God for its coming into being (Col. 1:16–17; Heb. 1:3).

In physics, Heisenberg’s ‘Uncertainty Principle’ (1927) asserts that observable data can never suffice for exact predictions of physical events; but (despite common assertions to the contrary) it does not logically deny strict determinism.

2. Theological determinism is the doctrine that the form of all events is determined according to ‘the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God’ (Acts 2:23, AV(KJV)). This neither depends on nor implies scientific determinism: it could apply even in a world that was scientifically indeterminate.

3. In philosophy determinism often stands for the doctrine that the future of human beings is inevitable-for-them, so that freedom of choice is illusory. This doctrine is often thought to follow from scientific determinism, and Heisenberg’s principle has been invoked as a defense against it; but ‘compatibilists’ (including the writer) consider both these moves to be mistaken. A future event E may be physically determinate without being inevitable-for-an-agent-A, if its form depends (among other things) upon what A thinks or decides about it.

Suppose, for example, that the physical states of A’s brain reflect what A thinks and believes, so that no change can take place in what A believes without a corresponding change in his brain-state (as assumed in mechanistic brain science). It follows that no completely detailed specification of the immediate future of A’s brain can claim to be equally accurate regardless of what A thinks of it, for (ex hypothesis) it must change according to what A thinks of it!

In other words, no completely determinate specification of A’s future exists, even unknown to A, which A would be correct to believe, and mistaken to disbelieve, if only he knew it. What does exist is a range of options, any one of which will be realized, if, and only if, A opts for it, and none of which is inevitable for A.

This is a rational basis for holding A responsible for the outcome, whether or not it was predictable-for-others. There is here a principle of relativity: what others might be correct to believe about A’s future is not what A would be correct to believe.

Notice that the question here is not what A would do if offered a prediction. The question is whether A’s future is inevitable-for-A, in the sense of having one, and only one, determinate specification (unknown to A) with an unconditional logical claim to A’s assent. The argument shows that no such specification can exist.

This disproof of ‘philosophical determinism’ requires us neither to assume nor to deny determinism in either its scientific or theological senses."

G. Dworkin (ed.), Determinism, Freewill, and Moral Responsibility (London, 1970); D. M. MacKay, Human Science and Human Dignity (London, 1979), pp. 50–55; G. Watson (ed.), Freewill (London, 1982).

Ferguson, S. B., & Packer, J. (2000). New dictionary of theology (electronic ed.) (195). Downers Grove, IL: Intervarsity Press.

 

[seoulsearch]

Hi Scott .

I wanted to clarify your question: does God control our mistakes in the sense of "making us" decide what we do? No, the Bible says God does not tempt anyone to sin. (James 1:13--"Let no man say when he is tempted, 'I am being tempted by God', for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt any man.'") Does God test our hearts and use our decisions and their outcomes toward His own purpose? Absolutely.

Laban repeatedly made the choice to try to cheat Jacob out of his wages ("Here, you can have all the speckled, spotted, and blemished lambs.") It looked like a sure disaster for Jacob, but God had other plans. His will was to bless Jacob, so even though Laban made the conscious decision to repeatedly lie and cheat, guess what happened? Laban's flocks began to produce uncanny numbers of speckled, spotted, and blemished lambs, and Jacob became extremely wealthy. Laban made the choice--God neither coerced nor forced him to act dishonorably, but God did control the outcome.

In one of my college classes, we were assigned a lab rat and an experimental (Skinner) box. Our objective was to shape various behaviors the rats would make (they were water-deprived for 24 hours and we could reinforce, or reward, their behaviors with a dipper that gave the rat a drink of water.)

During my sessions with my rat, I noticed that for whatever reason, he would often turn in a circle. I have no idea why--he just did so "naturally"--and through many sessions, I was able to shape up that behavior by giving him water every time he turned in a circle.

For our final project, we had to demonstrate that we could "get" our rats to do a series about 5 behaviors before they would get a drink of water. There was a list of both required behaviors that we "had" to show in our experiment, but there was also the option of including behaviors that weren't on that list.

This was many years ago so I can't remember everything I was able to "train" my rat to do, but when it was my turn to show my project, my rat would do something like this: touch a certain marked spot inside the box, pull a chain, turn in a circle, wait for a light to come on, press a lever, and then receive a drink of water. All the other behaviors were "required" according to the list, but turning in a circle was not, and everyone asked me how I had gotten him to turn in circles.

The truth is, I have no idea why he originally turned in circles. Did I control his behavior or choice to turn in a circle? No. But did I take that behavior and use it for the purpose of enhancing my final project? Absolutely.

I know this example can't be compared to an Almighty God, but I believe that God knows what choices we will make long before we ever make them, and because He knows that, He is absolutely able to use what He already knows about our decisions for His own purposes. (Romans 8:28--"We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose.")

 

[1still_waters]

There is human will to choose different choices.
There is God's sovereignty to do what he dog gone well pleases.

You may be asking the wrong question.

Does God control these mistakes and their outcomes despite my free will?

There may be a more important thing to consider.

The ultimate thing to consider is your final outcome.
Before any human sinned, God had already chosen sovereignly.

Ephesians 1

4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us[b] for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Instead of getting muddled and bogged down in a subordinate issue, maybe find the chief truth that has been clearly revealed.
Despite our dumb free will sin, God has sovereignly acted to provide a remedy, before one human choice was made.

 

[zeroturbulence]

For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

(Psalm 91:12 NIV, also Luke 4:10 and Matthew 4:6)

 

[IloveyouGod]

It's not "control" our mistakes. God takes our mistakes and "Work" with them for our best because He is Love. He doesn't want to condemn us, but rather "Chasten" us. So for example, if you read the story of Abraham you'll see how much Abraham sinned before God, yet, still, God took his sins and worked with them and taught him a great lesson at the end. God looked at Abraham's heart not at his sins. And a lot of other people in the bible, God took their sins and worked with them, chasten the person and forgave him at the end because like it says whom God loves He chasten.

For those of you here who are saying we don't have a free will. That's wrong. Because God cannot punish us or reward us on a specific outcome if we didn't have a free will from the beginning. This will make God an unjust judge and definitely God IS just. There's a HUGE difference between God's foreknowledge and forcing His control. We have the freedom of choice, the freedom of action and thought. Everything. God just know ahead of time what we will do or say or whatever. But that does not mean we are predestine.

I have come to believe that God is ultimately in control of my life in a very detailed and intimate way. However, I also understand that I have free will and that I am responsible for my decisions. This idea, along with many other things that have a balance of which there is no black and white answer, I would like to gain more knowledge on. I have made many mistakes in my life which have caused me a great deal of trouble. Some of them have seemingly revealed themselves to have some sort of positive effect, and some of them seem to only bring more heartache and trouble, continually. My question is very specific: Does God control these mistakes and their outcomes despite my free will? I will cite one verse that comes to mind just as a starting point for discussion. Proverbs 16:9 says, "The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps."

 

[just_monicat]

For those of you here who are saying we don't have a free will. That's wrong. Because God cannot punish us or reward us on a specific outcome if we didn't have a free will from the beginning. This will make God an unjust judge and definitely God IS just. There's a HUGE difference between God's foreknowledge and forcing His control. We have the freedom of choice, the freedom of action and thought. Everything. God just know ahead of time what we will do or say or whatever. But that does not mean we are predestine.

i don't believe God "punishes" us, at least not in the sense that one punishes their child, via action designed specificity for punitive measure.

i do believe He convicts us, chastises us, humbles us via the Holy Spirit and other people/circumstances.

i believe God allows us to reap the repercussions of our own choices, especially when you consider through His mercy He prevents negative consequences to come upon us, often in ways we simply will never know.

there are numerous biblical references in which we are told that God can "turn the heart" and having influence or control over the hearts of kings and fathers, for example.

this should all help us to appreciate how enormous God's influence is on directing circumstances. i believe we are constantly on the receiving end of God blessing us in circumstances designed to purify us. we can often perceive these as negative or positive consequences.

but i have never seen a single piece of scripture able to convince me that God directly "punishes us".

 

[IloveyouGod]

Yes, you are right. God doesn't punish us. I'm not saying He does. I'm addressing those who thinks that we don't have free will. Maybe I wasn't clear the way I did put that line you've bolded. But in my own explanation to the OP I said chasten.

i don't believe God "punishes" us, at least not in the sense that one punishes their child.

i believe God allows us to reap the repercussions of our own choices, especially when you consider through His mercy He prevents negative consequences to come upon us, often in ways we simply will never know.

there are numerous biblical references in which we are told that God can "turn the heart" and having influence or control over the hearts of kings and fathers, for example.

this should all help us to appreciate how enormous God's influence is on directing circumstances. but i have never seen a single piece of scripture able to convince me that God directly "punishes us".


i believe He convincts us, chastises us, humbles us via the Holy Spirit and other people/circumstances.

 

[jb]

Rom 8v28 states:

"And we know that all that happens to us is working for our good if we love God and are fitting into his plans." (Living Bible)

Even when we make terrible mistakes and REALLY screw up (due to our free will choices, see Isaiah 53v6), God brings good out of it!

He knew about ALL of them before creation and prepared for them, so that good would come forth from them!

This is His wonderful promise and assurance!

Yahweh Shalom...

 

[GreatScott]

Hebrews 12:6 - My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines the ones he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son. Endure hardship as discipline. God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father?

 

[GreatScott]

Thank you for the reply. I know there are many more important things to consider for sure, but I wanted to focus specifically on whether God literally has a guiding hand in even our mistakes, or if it is something that is 'outside' of God's plan. I definitely focus my thoughts in other areas as well, but wanted to stick to this area for this post.

 

[GreatScott]

It's not "control" our mistakes. God takes our mistakes and "Work" with them for our best because He is Love. He doesn't want to condemn us, but rather "Chasten" us. So for example, if you read the story of Abraham you'll see how much Abraham sinned before God, yet, still, God took his sins and worked with them and taught him a great lesson at the end. God looked at Abraham's heart not at his sins. And a lot of other people in the bible, God took their sins and worked with them, chasten the person and forgave him at the end because like it says whom God loves He chasten.

For those of you here who are saying we don't have a free will. That's wrong. Because God cannot punish us or reward us on a specific outcome if we didn't have a free will from the beginning. This will make God an unjust judge and definitely God IS just. There's a HUGE difference between God's foreknowledge and forcing His control. We have the freedom of choice, the freedom of action and thought. Everything. God just know ahead of time what we will do or say or whatever. But that does not mean we are predestine.

Thank you for the reply. I understand you believe he 'works' with the mistakes. But I wanted to focus specifically on whether or not he literally has a guiding hand in the mistake while it is occurring. I think control would be a valid word for that.