The Grey Zone

[Matthew]

I have noticed a recurring topic on the singles forum is that of unequal relationships, be they friendships or romantic relationships and the general view is that they are bad and something to stay away from.
I can understand and it is a logical standard to apply even if it weren't pointed too in the bible, there does need to be agreement on fundamental issues for any relationship to work long term.

But I am struggling to deal with the reality that view point brings about, how to go about things in this life is clear for those of faith and clear for those without it, in broad terms they each don't want to be involved with the other, but there is a group in between made up of people caught between having a deep feeling of discomfort and unhappiness with the prevailing attitudes of the secular world but who also struggle, for a variety of reasons, to reconcile themselves to a christian life despite a deep desire to do so.

You know many christians have been in this place but imagine for a moment you never got out, how would you build a life holding to many christian values and yet never being truly embraced by christians? by that I mean always being held at arms length, I hear it said to love and embrace non-christians but that's often followed by a warning of 'don't get too close, lest they pull you away from God'.
I understand that fear and that many christians have had this experience and it is not unfounded, but where does it leave people like me?........doomed to only friendship with christians and left to tolerate those in the secular world?

In a thread about being in an unequal romantic relationship I saw it written and I think also quoted from the Bible that christians should not be in an unequal marriage, but if they are that they are required to be every bit as dedicated to it as they otherwise would be if married to a christian, perhaps it's wishful thinking on my part but would the Bible say those words if an unequal marriage could not work and be the wonderful uplifting experience God intends it to be? in spite of the challenge present for both people,

I hope that is the case because if it's not I doubt I am the only one left wondering exactly what it is I am supposed to do, it's easy to say pray and keep your chin up, but I might never get any closer to God than I am today so that doesn't help and seems like an easy thing to say to ally fears without actually doing anything.

I am most interested in hearing from others who are unsure of their faith who also have these thoughts, I would like to talk with people of a like mind, so if you've been down this road in the past as well I'd like to hear from you.

 

[jjones76]

Wow - That is quite a loaded question/statement. After coming out of a marriage that was "unequally yolked", I can say that I wouldn't commit to marrying another man that I knew wasn't sold out to Christ. As a mom, I have to put my children in the consideration, and I currently lead my girls spiritually. If I am to ever marry again, I want that man to lead not only my children, but myself as well, in the Word of God as well as live by example.

Being a Christian is not always easy, but it is a commitment to keep trying every day to serve Him more and more. It's not a feeling - believe me, some days I really don't feel like one. It's a day to day fight sometimes. I fail miserably somedays, and I think "What on earth made me act like that, say that, do that, whatever the case may be"...then I repent to Jesus and ask for strength to do better.

I have learned the hard way not to judge people, and hate it when people judge me...but the fact is, lots of "church people" judge more than the world does.

Don't give up - keep fighting the fight, and allow Jesus to take full control of your life!!!!

 

[hellynn]

I have noticed a recurring topic on the singles forum is that of unequal relationships, be they friendships or romantic relationships and the general view is that they are bad and something to stay away from.
I can understand and it is a logical standard to apply even if it weren't pointed too in the bible, there does need to be agreement on fundamental issues for any relationship to work long term.

But I am struggling to deal with the reality that view point brings about, how to go about things in this life is clear for those of faith and clear for those without it, in broad terms they each don't want to be involved with the other, but there is a group in between made up of people caught between having a deep feeling of discomfort and unhappiness with the prevailing attitudes of the secular world but who also struggle, for a variety of reasons, to reconcile themselves to a christian life despite a deep desire to do so.

You know many christians have been in this place but imagine for a moment you never got out, how would you build a life holding to many christian values and yet never being truly embraced by christians? by that I mean always being held at arms length, I hear it said to love and embrace non-christians but that's often followed by a warning of 'don't get too close, lest they pull you away from God'.
I understand that fear and that many christians have had this experience and it is not unfounded, but where does it leave people like me?........doomed to only friendship with christians and left to tolerate those in the secular world?

In a thread about being in an unequal romantic relationship I saw it written and I think also quoted from the Bible that christians should not be in an unequal marriage, but if they are that they are required to be every bit as dedicated to it as they otherwise would be if married to a christian, perhaps it's wishful thinking on my part but would the Bible say those words if an unequal marriage could not work and be the wonderful uplifting experience God intends it to be? in spite of the challenge present for both people,

I hope that is the case because if it's not I doubt I am the only one left wondering exactly what it is I am supposed to do, it's easy to say pray and keep your chin up, but I might never get any closer to God than I am today so that doesn't help and seems like an easy thing to say to ally fears without actually doing anything.

I am most interested in hearing from others who are unsure of their faith who also have these thoughts, I would like to talk with people of a like mind, so if you've been down this road in the past as well I'd like to hear from you.

I understand what you mean and you just get N2 the word like never b4 and seek God and he will show you what to do...this is an area where u need to press in and ask God to get thru this season..its not hard to unless we think it is...I ve had that experience and I know what all the things you mentioned are going thru-but yet there is hope..you aren't doomed bc u have the holy Spirit Nside of u to ask for Him to help u draw healthy bounderies when it comes to relationships w lost ppl or ANY person...u ask for wisdom discernment n prov says to guard ur heart..always having a spiritual parent is one wisdom key, another is ppl who have been hardcore discipled n trained n this area who can also relate to u and are your age...I been there..and u can't compromise w the lost but u can't just "tolerate" them either..u ask for the fire of God to win em to Jesus and pray for that agape love n compassion and it'll help keep healthy bounderies...basically pride,flesh,ignorance,and wounds keep us distant from God but I know that Psalm 51:7-10 I think states that" a brokn spirit n a contrite heart such O God, you will NOT dispise.."U can get closer to Him..thru brokness bc Jesus is among the lowly..that's always helpd me get closer to God n askn Him 2 change my perverse n wicked heart bc I know I can't(jer.17:9)..and to help my unelief just like that man begged Jesus..I sometimes feel like blind bartimaus..screamn at the top of my lungs @ Jesus n ppl telln me to shut up-(my family...ppl even n my church and the lost..of course..how can u deal w them at times? The flesh is so terrible..that's a whole nother topic..) And yet i scream all the louder at Jesus so he won't pass me by..bc he may never pass my way again and I ask Him humbly thru my tears..fresh brokeness pls or my heart will get harder n my faith unstable..today I told God "I dnt even kno if I'm savd lost etc God.." It seems like the enemy is so paitentto study our lives n LOVES to hit us while were down and hit us N our weakest spots n we feel victimized n paralyzed..and neutralized all at once n can't even put one foot n front of the other..to even inch closer to the Master.. Let alone get bak on the potters wheel..yet..bc Jesus...there is hope n bc he won His personal battles against the stupid onslaughts of his enemy..I too- can make war and dcide...regardless of my circumstances...I just push n grit my teeth n grunt thru this crap until I see what I've askd God to do;the "its impossible!(s)" N my life..u have an inner strength u haven't even BEGUN to tap n2 yet..wow..can't wait to see what God will bring u thru this New Year and n the New Seasons of ur life..B encouraged.."Blessd b the God who comforts us.."

 

[sportygirl]

I believe being friends with non-christians can be a HUGE blessing for them and yourself. I mean yes if your willing to let them pull you away from God than they can do this to you, but also you got to be able to accept them or they will never come to faith if all they feel is judgment from Christians. I have a good friend who is non-christian and honesty being his friends means I can personally pray for him (i should do that more) as well as just show him what Christianity is.

When it comes to marrying or dating someone who is a non-christian i truely dont believe that is what God wants for us, he doesnt want us to struggle in a relationship and constantly having to fight it causes to big of a rift between two people. The same guy I mentioned above is dating a Christian friend and honestly she is being driven away. This isnt something I would want to deal with I definetly need some who can build me in my faith and not tear me down.

Also though being with a Christian doesnt guarentee your not gonna come away from God, unless you really work on building each other up. This was something my ex and I didnt do, we focused on teh physical stuff not the relationship stuff and in the end, it was bad. So either way you can go through difficult times that challange your faith.

 

[Matthew]

When it comes to marrying or dating someone who is a non-christian i truely dont believe that is what God wants for us, he doesnt want us to struggle in a relationship and constantly having to fight it causes to big of a rift between two people. The same guy I mentioned above is dating a Christian friend and honestly she is being driven away. This isnt something I would want to deal with I definetly need some who can build me in my faith and not tear me down.

This is what I have read many times, a lot of christians speak from a personal experience of how they thought things would change and the non-christian partner would come to God with their help etc...and I have also seen examples of how that works out badly within my own family, so I know it is true.

What I struggle with is the idea that it seems to be treated as an absolute, many seem to speak in absolute terms about how it went wrong for them and so it will always go wrong for others, and I am sure many non-christians on the other side of this situation probably feel the same.

But to use the situation between your friends as an example......you say she is being driven away and that is obviously very bad because she is losing part of who she is to be part of something less, but it does not have to be this way.

One other thing I have noticed is that often blame seems to be laid at the feet of the non-christian, I suppose in the wake of a broken relationship each person may blame the other but if a christian gets pulled away from God then they must accept they played a part by allowing it to happen, but I often read it described as 'I was pulled away from God', maybe just an imprecise choice of words but it puts the emphasis on the other party being responsible.

I use myself as my gude in this, if I did have a relationship with a christian women I would not see it as a barrier or a bad thing, I would embrace it in the sense that I would seek to understand and learn about it through her, I would attend her church and discuss the bible with her etc...only each individual person could decide if that would be enough or not, but I would never see her religion, whatever one it was, as a bad thing or an obstacle.

 

[Brendishy]

Im agree with you SportyGirl.
Im new here at CC, but first time I came to chat I met a girl from China, she is not christian but she likes to practice her english so she comes always because she feels confortable here. That's definitely a sign that our presence is helpful and friendly to her. When we started talking she had many questions about Christianity, I have been preaching and answering her questions. I am sure that sooner or later she will be Christian. How do
we work with those who don't know about God, if we're afraid?, How do we fulfill our responsibility according to Mark 16:15 (- "He said to them: Go into the world and preach the good news to the creation) if we do not share with them?.
Obviously we have to be careful, but never fear because this is our great commission.

 

[sportygirl]

Yes there are definetly no abosulutes in anything, and blaming a non christian for your loss in faith thats not fair to them, BEcause it was your choices that have led to that. And yes being friends with non-christians I fully believe is a important part of our faith and is the only way you cangive back to the world.

 

[songster]

The term 'unequally yoked', mentioned in II Corinthians 6:14, is not an instruction meant to convince believers to avoid unbelievers or people who are unsure of their spiritual status. If this were the case, Jesus would have had no earthly ministry.

Being unequally yoked, as it refers to an analogy having to do with 'yoked oxen', is most applicable as a warning against creating a covenant of marriage with someone who has no relationship with God through Christ. It can also apply to friendships, especially friendships which clearly present a risk of compromising Christian integrity.

In accordance with the scriptural analogy, a yoke of oxen that are unevenly matched, run the risk of being unable to function as a unit. An ox which is weaker, may cause the other to fall, to stumble, or to be forced to carry far greater than their share of the load. If one ox decides to behave wildly, it may pull in another direction, creating problems for the ox that is well trained and remains steady.

Once an unsaved person comes into the knowledge of the truth of the gospel, there are certain changes they must make in order to preserve their sense of having a stable relationship with God. Sometimes this means, avoiding former friends who could lead them back into a lifestyle of sin. For others it can mean limiting interactions with those whose philosophies and lifestyles, are in such opposition to a Christian's way of life, that they can not spend much time with them, without being negatively influenced.

Someone who has had their eyes opened by the Holy Spirit, realizes that there is no righteousness, moral code, or earthly standard of conduct, which could gain them access into God's kingdom, and therefore a belief system of 'Christian values', without accepting the Lord, is still simply unbelief. If someone believes that they can conduct friendships without compromising their faith, there is no scripture which instructs believers to avoid the world altogether. We are free to associate with whom we wish, but wisdom and discernment are needed.

If there are unbelievers who feel slighted or feel that this is somehow unfairl, I would encourage them to begin to attend a bible teaching church where they may gain a more perfect understanding.

 

[Matthew]

Someone who has had their eyes opened by the Holy Spirit, realizes that there is no righteousness, moral code, or earthly standard of conduct, which could gain them access into God's kingdom, and therefore a belief system of 'Christian values', without accepting the Lord, is still simply unbelief.

I understand the point you make and I understand that it is correct, but that rather cold description of the struggle doesn't push forward a feeling of christian love.

I know you may not intend it but the way you wrote that makes it come across with a feeling of detatchment and lack of compassion for people who are in that situation you describe.

If someone is really trying hard, giving every ounce of energy each day and still having difficulties, saying to them that all their effort is getting them no closer is extremely discouraging, and while true there are many better ways to say so while accomplishing the opposite and providing affirmation.

If there are unbelievers who feel slighted or feel that this is somehow unfairl, I would encourage them to begin to attend a bible teaching church where they may gain a more perfect understanding.

I personally am not someone who feels slighted as I understand the instruction and why it is needed but gaining a more perfect understanding would likely not help me, I feel I have a good understanding but what I seek to understand is not the instruction itself but how it is applied in life and what criteria each individual uses, perhaps it should always be the same but that is obviously not the case when it comes to applying things from the bible into daily life, and hence my reason for posting the thread.

Thanks for your insights.

 

[songster]

When speaking the truth, (or writing it), I try to consider that our speech is to be conducted with Grace, seasoned with salt. For me it depends on the point the individual in the post is trying to make. I show compassion on a daily basis in my life, and pray for those around me. I return a kind word in the face of abrasive attitudes on a consistent basis.

The purpose of these forums is hopefully to arrive at the truth, or to provide some form of guidance. What I have found in some discussions, not necessarily this one, is that some are not seeking compassion, but compromise. For that reason I attempt to find ways to share the gospel, or the instructive portions of the bible, as clearly and uncompromisingly as I can while also administering grace. After re-reading the post, I don't believe I missed the mark, but I do have a question.

What does this portion of your statement mean? What is the type of person you described trying to accomplish?



If someone is really trying hard, giving every ounce of energy each day and still having difficulties, saying to them that all their effort is getting them no closer is extremely discouraging, and while true there are many better ways to say so while accomplishing the opposite and providing affirmation.

 

[Matthew]

When speaking the truth, (or writing it), I try to consider that our speech is to be conducted with Grace, seasoned with salt. For me it depends on the point the individual in the post is trying to make. I show compassion on a daily basis in my life, and pray for those around me. I return a kind word in the face of abrasive attitudes on a consistent basis.

The purpose of these forums is hopefully to arrive at the truth, or to provide some form of guidance. What I have found in some discussions, not necessarily this one, is that some are not seeking compassion, but compromise. For that reason I attempt to find ways to share the gospel, or the instructive portions of the bible, as clearly and uncompromisingly as I can while also administering grace. After re-reading the post, I don't believe I missed the mark, but I do have a question.

What does this portion of your statement mean? What is the type of person you described trying to accomplish?



If someone is really trying hard, giving every ounce of energy each day and still having difficulties, saying to them that all their effort is getting them no closer is extremely discouraging, and while true there are many better ways to say so while accomplishing the opposite and providing affirmation.

They are trying to accomplish being a better person and moving beyond thier past weakness and struggles with the hope of one day becoming fully christian and coming to know the Lord.....so they are seeking to accomplish becoming more than they have been.

To be absolutely clear...I know the purpose of the forum and I do not question your behaviour or attitude in everyday life, but you say you try to deliver the truth with grace, all I meant to put across was that for me, in your post there was no feeling of grace.

Maybe the problem lies with my interpretation I don't know, but I see no harm in raising a point if it makes us all think twice about how we put things across, the point is relevant to me also, I was not attempting to be critical of you.

One of my aims in posting this thread on the topic of unequal relationships was too address the fact that SOME of the posts I read have an overtly negative tone about the unbeliever in the realtionship being put forth as an example, and for people unsure or non-christian coming to the website with an open mind seeking education and grace could possibly take away a negative feeling about how it is 'Us v Them' and 'they' are bad for christians in anything more than a basic friendship, a 'freindship' often geared more toward active conversion than real friendship.

 

[greatkraw]

Im agree with you SportyGirl.
Im new here at CC, but first time I came to chat I met a girl from China, she is not christian but she likes to practice her english so she comes always because she feels confortable here. That's definitely a sign that our presence is helpful and friendly to her. When we started talking she had many questions about Christianity, I have been preaching and answering her questions. I am sure that sooner or later she will be Christian. How do
we work with those who don't know about God, if we're afraid?, How do we fulfill our responsibility according to Mark 16:15 (- "He said to them: Go into the world and preach the good news to the creation) if we do not share with them?.
Obviously we have to be careful, but never fear because this is our great commission.

was that Grace928??

I think she went into a church for christmas(apparently the food was good)

 

[songster]

They are trying to accomplish being a better person and moving beyond thier past weakness and struggles with the hope of one day becoming fully christian and coming to know the Lord.....so they are seeking to accomplish becoming more than they have been.

To be absolutely clear...I know the purpose of the forum and I do not question your behaviour or attitude in everyday life, but you say you try to deliver the truth with grace, all I meant to put across was that for me, in your post there was no feeling of grace.

Maybe the problem lies with my interpretation I don't know, but I see no harm in raising a point if it makes us all think twice about how we put things across, the point is relevant to me also, I was not attempting to be critical of you.

One of my aims in posting this thread on the topic of unequal relationships was too address the fact that SOME of the posts I read have an overtly negative tone about the unbeliever in the realtionship being put forth as an example, and for people unsure or non-christian coming to the website with an open mind seeking education and grace could possibly take away a negative feeling about how it is 'Us v Them' and 'they' are bad for christians in anything more than a basic friendship, a 'freindship' often geared more toward active conversion than real friendship.

The believer is always at a disadvantage when conversing with someone who does not immediately share their beliefs. The unbeliever seems to be well versed on the expected etiquette of the Christian, while there is no documented standard of conduct for the unbeliever. A Christian is striving for perfection, otherwise known as pressing toward the mark. This is the hope of moving toward maturity in Christ.

An unbeliever sets his/her own standard, adopting a moral code which they find acceptable, and is not expected to adhere to any biblically based code of conduct. Giving you a little insight into the lives of believers, these are simply broken people who are progressively being repaired, people who have had the courage to cast off the false gods and the false righteousness of this world, in order to receive the true righteousness which only comes through a relationship with God through Christ Jesus, a relationship which often subjects them to persecution.

What we strive for is not to be a better person or a more positive contribution to society, we are believers in the finished work of Jesus at Calvary, and as believers we are filled with the Holy Spirit of God. That Spirit motivates us to shed our desire for the things of this world, including conduct codes comprised of earthly morals, and vain philosophies.

If I were to say homosexuality and premarital sex are sins, this might very well hurt the feelings of those who practice these behaviors, and yet within these posts, as some debates and discussions are conducted, these very things are mentioned. Have we failed to extend grace by speaking the truth? No. We do our best to speak the truth in love, but it is understood, that as truth is delivered or discussed, some, because of their chosen lifestyle, will be offended.

Jesus, in his earthly ministry told the Pharisees who were questioning him, "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father, you will do". Do you think that this may have hurt the feelings of the Pharisees? Do you think that this may have offended them?

Perhaps it is time that unbelievers stop holding Christians to a standard of perfection, and begin to extend a little grace themselves, toward Christians.

 

[Matthew]

I understand what you are saying but you are broadening the discussion now to beyond the initial topic I wanted to discuss, of course it goes both ways and everyone regardless of belief is required to speak with respect and tolerance and show love etc...

Please understand I am not trying to hold christians to account, I think that was clear, I am trying to discuss the issue not lay blame with anyone, I'm sorry if my raising an issue with your post made you feel like I was holding you to 'perfection' that was not the case, I expect perfection from no person.

Of course the truth hurts sometimes, all I say is that sometimes how we say the truth can accomplish the opposite to the goal of teaching someone, everyone makes this mistake sometimes, you, me, christians and non-christians alike.

You may feel christians are always at a disadvantage but that is a matter of perspective not an absolute truth, a non-christian may not feel the burden to conform to perfection but they have to deal with feeling they are being viewed through a lens of perfection and can therefore never measure up, there are positives and negatives to each side of it and all face unique difficulites relative to how they are living at the moment.

To close my thoughs on this thread I will say that both christians and non-christians need to recognise the other are just normal people trying hard to live right, both need to stop holding eachother to a certain standard, whatever it may be, and meet on equal ground as equals, one no better that the other.